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Hamelin, and how do not go to hell for playing him


Thechosenone
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So i have a Hamelin crew and some really awesomely painted and converted models for that crew. I've gotten three games in with him and my most common opponent really hates him.

I get why, i really do. He's a tough master. Anything you all would do if you wanted to take a Hamelin List and also didn't want to be "That Guy with the Hamelin list"

Thanks folks.

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Would agree with Tadaka, limiting the Rat Swarm shenanigans is a good start to not being "that guy". Additionally not hiding a The Stolen in the very back of your deployment zone behind a big ol' piece of Obscuring terrain is another.

Additionally make sure you understand the wording on The Void, it doesn't allow you to ignore the discard phase of the turn only discard effects (so you cant have more then the max number of control cards in your hand). Also remember that it only ignores discard effects targeting Hamelin, the rest of his crew is fair game. These two things are very frequently miss played.

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Another option, with a standard Hamelin list, is to not abuse the Ratcatcher ability to kill all the rats within the area of effect. By not using this ability, you limit the Rat swarm to continually activating over and over and over again, to only when your opponent actually kills them. At least then it's his fault when they swarm over his crew.

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I want to chime in this pretty thread. I plan on using Hamelin as my second master and that´s the models I already own:

Hamelin

Baby Kade (a necessity for me!)

10 Rats (Harlequin did some pretty rats)

Well, what do you guys think should I purchase to make it a "good" list, ie a list that both my opponents and I like to play?

What are the power combos I should avoid?

HTG

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I would just play him, he is beatable. I plan on playing him my self, and have had that same attitude for a while. I know which players in my gaming group will be able to handle a game against Hamelin (his "game breaking rules" that is) and which players I'll bring something else. The moment your games become meaningless just stop using him.

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I have a Hamelin list which has only seen a few outings which have been mainly about learning how to play him. In each case my opponent and I sort of tackled the game as a learning experience for both of us.

I wouldn't play Hamelin every game, but he is in the game, and therefore anyone keen to get better at Malifaux should learn how to play against him. I would suggest sticking with his themed crew rather than bringing along any of the myriad other Ht 1 models he can recruit. Deliberately choosing less than optimum non-themed models seems to be self-defeating, though there are numerous other ways to handicap Hamelin through number of SS or choice of Schemes etc.

As long as you don't treat your opponent badly and give them every opportunity to plan a strategy that can defeat Hamelin, there is no reason why both of you shouldn't continue to have enjoyable games with him. If all else fails, let your opponent play Hamelin against you.

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Red Chapel lures the Rat Catchers out of their protective swarm so they can be killed without recieving rat armor or spawning more rats. This significantly reduces the teeth of the standard Hamelin list.

Colette can do something similar with Disappearing Act. Not to mention the lethality of Coryphee's

Both crews have models that require WP duels to target (Terrifying and Irrestible) that will reduce the effectiveness of the Rats.

I think Colette has the better Hamelin beating Potential.

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Red chapel:-

Terrifying tricks even more amplified when you go aSeamus

Lure either lone rats or rat catchers out of voracious rats aura to kill them.

Showgirls:

As already said you can disappearing act the rat catcher very very easily then you kill the rats around it. usually summoning a dove to explode is best. DF-> 14 duel or take 2 wounds is almost custom made to remove rats.

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Another option, with a standard Hamelin list, is to not abuse the Ratcatcher ability to kill all the rats within the area of effect. By not using this ability, you limit the Rat swarm to continually activating over and over and over again, to only when your opponent actually kills them. At least then it's his fault when they swarm over his crew.

That's ridiculous advice. Sorry, but saying "don't use the models properly" is not a way to balance the game. It's the same as saying "balance the game by taking the Red Joker, 13s and 12s out of your deck"

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That's ridiculous advice. Sorry, but saying "don't use the models properly" is not a way to balance the game. It's the same as saying "balance the game by taking the Red Joker, 13s and 12s out of your deck"

Very similar advice I gave to a new Hamelin player that was concerned about this same thing in our community. Hamelin is currently designed to run this way and until (if) there is a revision for him not using his tools is counterproductive to the collection of data (needed to really push any fixes for him).

I love his models and his fluff but hate how dominating he can be (he is an easy button regardless of what others may think). It can be beaten but you have to play a hell of a lot better then your opponent. Still waiting for some movement on the community recommended tweeks to bring him more in line with the power level of other Master's crews (remember that thread Magic?)

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That's ridiculous advice. Sorry, but saying "don't use the models properly" is not a way to balance the game.

OP didn't ask how to balance the game. He can't balance the game as he doesn't write the rules. The best he can do is try to make the game enjoyable for both sides (which appears to be what he was asking about). That may involve playing models below their full capabilities, when certain models are "broken" or create situations that are not condusive to enjoyable gaming.

When the match up is not fair or not fun you have several choices(when you're the one using the "broken" army), continue to take the same models, but avoid abusing their more questionable skills/ability, or take different models that lower your overall power, or attempt to teach your opponent how to counter your army.

Sometimes you can't really lower the power of the army enough, simply by taking different models. Sometimes you don't want to take different models because you are playing that army to be able to use those models. People will ignore advice to take different models if they really want to use XXX (because the model looks great, they painted it really nice, they like the fluff, whatever...).

Sometimes you can't really teach your opponent how to counter your army, because his army just doesn't have the ability to do so (Ophelia vs Hamelin). Usually it takes a while to teach an opponent how to beat your army, especially if the power levels and skill levels are widely separated. This is often the best option, but can take too long and the opponent may get frustrated and quit before this pays off.

It might not be the best option, to play your models below their capabilities, but it is an option, and often is the easiest to start with. You can also combine it with attempts to teach your opponent how to counter your army, and gradually reintroduce the "broken" abilities as your opponent learns how to counter your army.

Also, regarding the collection of data to lead to fixes for Hamelin, simple wins/loss data (even combined with army lists) is fairly useless for determining what fixes need to be made, though it can help in determining there is a problem to fix. You really need decently detailed reports of the games for any reasonable analysis of problem areas. Those detailed reports would point out that a player was not using abilities to their full extent (ie: not abusing the kill rats action), which is something a designer should take into consideration. Not using abilities to their full extent can actually be useful data, if properly noted in the report. For instance, the designers could note that Hamelin is rolling face when kill rats is abused, but that games appear balanced when kill rats is only used once per turn and Hamelin appears to get destroyed when it isn't used at all. They might then make kill rats a once per turn per crew ability (rather than removing it completely), which might be the cuddle that works.

Note: I'm not suggesting that the above is what I think would fix Hamelin. I'm not even sure Hamelin needs fixing yet, as I like to reserve judgement until I have more experience with/against him.

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