Governor's Proxy and Governor's Influence (rules questions from tourney part 2)

[Tiny]

When a model kills the governor's proxy and then has to take the Wp -> Wp duel. Who is the attacker and who is the defender in that duel. We had a hooded rider kill the governor's proxy on the weekend weren't sure who the attacker was.

We went with the hooded rider as the attacker as he is the one that killed the governor's proxy and generated the duel

[Eisenhorn]

My guess is that its the Proxy that is the attacker since it is his ability. The Hooded rider should not have taken the test since he is immune to influence.

[zatoichi98]

unless the Hooded Rider is supposed to be the attacker...

[JuJubee]

I would think the governers proxy would be the attacker. Governers Influence originates from the proxy so logic tells me he is the attacker.

[Tiny]

Pandora isnt the attacker with expose fears though.

[Fading Memory]

Pandora isnt the attacker with expose fears though.

This is true. The attacking/activating model, the model that forces the ability to activate, becomes the attacker. Pandora's opponent is considered the attacker.

So with the Governor's ability, the same would apply. The Governor is the defender.

In both cases, you want the Governor and Pandora to be the defender, because models that are immune to influence are not immune because they are the attacker. Immune to influence only works when the model is the defender.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I throw my hat in with hooded rider attacker.

[Omenbringer]

Governor's Influence is an effect of killing the Proxy not an attack (just like the damage incurred from Pandora's Expose Fears). Hooded Rider isn't an attacker or Defender in this oppossed duel, so recieves no protection from Immune to Influence.

[Cunning]

Governor's Influence is an effect of killing the Proxy not an attack (just like the damage incurred from Pandora's Expose Fears). Hooded Rider isn't an attacker or Defender in this oppossed duel, so recieves no protection from Immune to Influence.

There's always an attacker and defender in an opposed duel. Otherwise who wins draws?

[Omenbringer]

Draws are loses in WP duels anyway so no issue.

[Asphyxxious]

I think his point is who is it a loss for? Saying its loss still leaves it with the question of who is losing. That doesn't make sence

[Omenbringer]

Governor's Proxy WP flip sets the Target Number for the Hooded Rider to beat.

[Issalbotproto]

top par. of pg. 28

the acting model is governors proxy and Hooded rider is the defending model who is immune to influence so he does not have to take the test.

[Fading Memory]

top par. of pg. 28

the acting model is governors proxy and Hooded rider is the defending model who is immune to influence so he does not have to take the test.

Governor's Influence does not say "target." The enemy model targets the GP, so GP is the defender. GP is still the defender when it triggers G.I. The GP is not making a strike, nor does the ability cause it to create a target. I see no reason why it should become the defender.

[Lord Shaper]

I'm interested in seeing the end of this one since it was my Proxy...

I'm going to leave my opinions off it as well

[nix]

RM Pg28:

It may not always be clear which model is the acting or defending model in an opposed Duel. When in doubt, remember that any time targeting is mentioned, the target is automatically the defender.

Governor's Proxy Card:

Governor's Influence: A model killing this model is also killed unless it wins a Wp->Wp Duel.

As I read that, and in the case mentioned, the Hooded Rider is the "Model killing this model", and as such he generates the WP->WP duel. This would make the hooded rider the attacker and the Proxy the target. (even though its the proxy's ability). As such, I2I would not trigger, but the Hooded Rider would win a tie.

Not sure how the official ruling will go, but that's how I read it.

[Fastenhate]

RM Pg28:

As such, I2I would not trigger, but the Hooded Rider would win a tie.

Not sure how the official ruling will go, but that's how I read it.

I just wanted to bump this and point out that the wording on GI is that the killing model must WIN the duel. A tie it dies. This came up this week with Von Schill and his Stubburn ability (+2 WP when he is the defender) and we couldn't figure out if he should get the +2 or not. It looks like the consensus is the killing model is still the attacker or atleast not the defender. Is that how it should be played?

Thanks

[Kadeton]

I just wanted to bump this and point out that the wording on GI is that the killing model must WIN the duel. A tie it dies. This came up this week with Von Schill and his Stubburn ability (+2 WP when he is the defender) and we couldn't figure out if he should get the +2 or not. It looks like the consensus is the killing model is still the attacker or atleast not the defender. Is that how it should be played?

Thanks

Bear in mind that an attacker wins ties in opposed duels, so a tie is a win in this sense.

Assuming the Dead Rider doesn't get Immune to Influence against it, then Von Schill wouldn't get the +2 from Stubborn either. I agree with Nix that this is the way the ability reads.

[magicpockets]

RM Pg28:

Governor's Proxy Card:

As I read that, and in the case mentioned, the Hooded Rider is the "Model killing this model", and as such he generates the WP->WP duel. This would make the hooded rider the attacker and the Proxy the target. (even though its the proxy's ability). As such, I2I would not trigger, but the Hooded Rider would win a tie.

Not sure how the official ruling will go, but that's how I read it.

That's how I've always seen it played.

[snord]

RM Pg28:

As I read that, and in the case mentioned, the Hooded Rider is the "Model killing this model", and as such he generates the WP->WP duel. This would make the hooded rider the attacker and the Proxy the target. (even though its the proxy's ability). As such, I2I would not trigger, but the Hooded Rider would win a tie.

Not sure how the official ruling will go, but that's how I read it.

The rule I use that allows me to reach the same conclusion as Nix is that in an opposed duel, when in doubt, the "active" model (as in the opposite of "passive", not as in "activated") is always the attacker. In this case, because the Rider is the "active" model attacking the GP, the Rider is the attacker. Same with obey, etc... the obeyed model is the active model...