Going to start a Leviticus Crew

[HeavensWrath]

He can hire any model undead soulless or construct, but can not hire totems. So the gravespirit is a no go

[CrouchingMoose]

He can hire any model undead soulless or construct, but can not hire totems. So the gravespirit is a no go

Actually the rules marshals commented on that...apparently hiring a totem is actually attaching and levi should actually be something along the lines of..."cannot hire non souless, non constrict, non undead and cannot attach totems." Apparently what this means is if you take a henchman, the only the henchman can attach to the totem (must be chosen following levis rules) but levi still cant get one. Its counter intuitive, but its is legal...just requires you to take a henchman to do so.

[Ciroth]

Hodgepodge Effigy seems like an interesting choice if you are using Collodi. With all the paired attacks and Levi's card mechanics, seems like you could really burn through a deck in a turn and could get some benefit out of seeing jokers turn back up.

[DireTrollJake]

I am looking to start playing with Levi again soon and really want to make a new purchase. Thinkin it will be ashes and dust. At 35, what would be an ideal list with him?

[Lucidicide]

I am looking to start playing with Levi again soon and really want to make a new purchase. Thinkin it will be ashes and dust. At 35, what would be an ideal list with him?

Depends on the strategy. Take Rusty, her ability to give Reactivate is great. Take a Canine Remains for the extra Waif. From there you have great flexibility. You're at 23 points. Figure out how many SS you want and what you like the feel of and go from there.

[CrouchingMoose]

I am looking to start playing with Levi again soon and really want to make a new purchase. Thinkin it will be ashes and dust. At 35, what would be an ideal list with him?

For treasure hunt, i agree with lucidicide. I would say to take something like a&d, rusty, canine, and then either 2 spa or 1 lspa (who get use for his nice fluffy bolts, mmmm rusty metal bolts)

This can get the treasure back into your deployment zone in turn 1.

[magicpockets]

I really struggle to get A&D to be worth the money in a low ss list

[Lucidicide]

I really struggle to get A&D to be worth the money in a low ss list

I have played him in many many games at 30ss and been very pleased with him even at that point total. I can even play him in Slaughter and win with him. He's just that good. However, you really have to understand where he fits in the Leveticus crew AND you have to want your Leveticus crew to work like that. For example, in the past you've mentioned you like Bete Noir with Leveticus (particularly pre-errata) and I've always boggled at why you'd prefer her to A&D. But it's definitely different play styles. That can make all the difference in what works for you vs not.

I think there are a few keys to playing A&D well: You should never be in the center of the board with him. It's too hard to get the Dust Storm to reform them. Understand that when you're playing A&D the goal is not to get a Desolation Engine. The goal is to use the SPAs you create to allow A&D (and particularly the Ashen Core) to teleport around the board and/or to sac them to get heals. I have repeatedly brought Rusty back from the brink of death by giving her healing flips from SPAs or Waifs (once you know one is safe).

My usual 30ss list is this: Leve, RA, AD, CR, SS Miner. That leaves me with 1ss. I can usually generate 1 or 2 more on the first turn with the Miner. I've found that I don't really need more than 3 or 4 with Leveticus, and the Miner helps keep me in that position. I essentially think of him as a 4ss hire and run Leveticus with 3 stones.

My goal is to kill A&D in a safe place by the end of turn 1. That means on turn 2 I have an extra activation, and if I've position correctly, I can get the A&D reactivate with Rusty. The goal is to get as close to out activating as possible so that when you kill the A&D yourself it's safe. Most things will have trouble with the Core by just winning initiative.

Then, in terms of use, I tend to find the A&D can kill one model per turn without a problem. That becomes an SPA. When the A&D kills itself, I use the Core (and a 3) to make the SPA swing twice. If I have another SPA, I then teleport the Core away to it, putting all the wounds on the SPA. I turn the SPA into scrap unless my opponent wants scrap, in which case it becomes a corpse.

The crew ends up dividing up with Rusty playing Hollow Waif defense and Headshot (which sometimes has to be used on Leveticus to ensure his death). Leveticus does his own thing, and the A&D does it's own thing. Both Leveticus and A&D are very card independent and able to function largely on their own. This self-reliability really frees you up to worry about other things.

I can go more in depth if you want to talk about it more. I realize this skims the surface and is sort of all over the place... sorry :-P

[magicpockets]

Awesome, and yes I'd love more!

[Lucidicide]

I wish I had the card in front of me. For the purposes of this discussion, I will assume that you aren't giving A&D reactivate because the number of things he can do when you do that goes into the stratosphere.

I think many people try to use the Ashes & Dust as a tank. This is a bad move. It's Df 5, Wp 5, Wd 8. Hard to Wound 2 is nice, but it will go down easily to a bunch of fire. It's ability to heal when something dies within 3" is nice, but I honestly find it rarely matters. If someone wants to kill your A&D, it's going to die.

Instead, think of the A&D as serving the following purposes:

• Speed - Wk 5 + Fast, not to mention Contort if you have SPAs
  
• Hitting power - Cb 7, Damage 3/4/6
  
• Counter denial - Autotrigger refuses to leave counters, completely shuts down opponents that rely on counters (as your crew won't drop them, either)
  
• Healing - A nice little zero action that can help heal up a Leve that was injured before he got a chance to use his Wds the right way or bring a Rusty back from the brink of death. Since Leveticus has many recurring models, it's not a big deal to sac them.
  
• Activations - Start the turn broken. Activate the Core. Activate the Dust -> A&D. Break them. Activate the Core. Activate the Dust. That's a lot of activations (4).
  

When using the A&D, think of him like you might think of the Dreamer. His goal is to get in, kill something, and get out. Since he is a model generating machine, you can even leave behind SPAs to tie up your enemy (and against living crews, give them a Df -> 12 Duel). Get in, do your damage. Make sure to target something that has already activated. Kill yourself. You should be able to position your Dust completely safely and put your Core in melee with only the model that has already activated. This gives some safety.

If they have models left, activate the Core next and Defensive Stance. If you can Contort safely away, do it. If not, make an SPA/DE attack. If not, pass. Remember, you are playing Leveticus. With everyone but Rusty Alyce, you are OK taking the damage. Don't look at Leveticus and worry about him dying -- you must preserve the Core. Leveticus will come back, even if he does nothing this turn.

Example: Played a game where someone was trying to Sabotage something near a board edge. Ran the A&D over and got off one swing, failing to kill it. Broke down, and the Dust then went and got another swing on the model. Next turn he tried to swing at the Dust, I had the high Crow, and he killed himself on the attack giving me an SPA.

Remember that the Ashen Core and the Dust Storm are both useful models, and they don't go away when the other dies.

Example: I played a game vs Perdita where she took out the A&D, won initiative, and took out the Core. My Dust Storm proceeded to kill the Enslaved Neph, put the finishing blow on Santiago, and something else I don't recall. Even if you lose A&D, you've still got two useful models.

Your A&D can be all over the board (especially with Contort and/or Reactivate), and it will keep your opponent on his toes. Once you've got that down, keep in mind that Leveticus has a problem with cards. You can't save what you want. This makes A&D a good choice for two reasons. First, he is good enough to not really need cards. Cb 7, Hard to Wound 2 (and unlikely to be charged), and even if he dies he can come back... save your high cards for other things -- Rusty or Leveticus, for example. Second, if you have the cards you might as well use them! A&D with a few high cards is a real monster. There's no point not to blow cards on this guy if you have no other use for them.

Basically, you'll end up making Rusty the support for Leveticus and A&D. These two avenues of attack and 'extremely-hard-to-kill' ability make it so that you can really choose what to activate and when and when to use your cards. Additionally, they are both killy enough to make sure you can eliminate the models you want to in the turn.

And just in the course of normal killing, you'll end up littering the board with SPAs from both Leveticus and the A&D. If you're lucky, you'll get a DE out of it. But as I said before, don't focus on doing so. If you do, you're denying your 13 point model some of it's abilities (mostly (0) abilities). See all SPAs in an A&D list as a resource to be exploited and less of a model to Voltron.

Also, on the SPA note, if your opponent doesn't want corpse counters I would STRONGLY recommend making SPAs into Corpse rather than Scrap. Scrap can be used to summon more SPAs, it's true, but the enemy's crew can also do that. The Corpse, however, can be used to summon another Hollow Waif in case your opponent picks off your Waifs before Leveticus activates.

I think the biggest two keys to making A&D successful, as a summary point:

1. Using all of his abilities. In a normal game, there should be a reason to. Being willing to do so is huge.
   
2. Activation order. He needs to go late or last in the turn (at least on his Reactivate) to be safe and cause the most problems. I tend to use Leveticus early to throw a wrench in their plans. The A&D is my end of turn control.
   

I hope that both helps and makes sense. I'd be glad to talk more on it if you want me to, but would probably need questions or scenarios.

[magicpockets]

You sir, can have an "Awesome" badge. I need to play it again now!

[Oshova]

You sir, can have an "Awesome" badge. I need to play it again now!

I'm looking at getting one for Nicodem, so would definitely be up for helping you sort out A&D =p

In a lot of cases Nico and Levi aren't that different, just that Levi is better at a lot more things. But thems the breaks of playing Ressers. ; ]

[Lucidicide]

You sir, can have an "Awesome" badge. I need to play it again now!

Thanks! Bring how it goes into here, and I'd be happy to share my thoughts. I have taken it as a personal challenge to make the A&D a respected model, and so far I've gotten a few people to buy it based on my games. I'm certainly no expert, but if you get involved... two heads are better than one!

I'm looking at getting one for Nicodem, so would definitely be up for helping you sort out A&D =p

In a lot of cases Nico and Levi aren't that different, just that Levi is better at a lot more things. But thems the breaks of playing Ressers. ; ]

Oh man. I wish I had Nico's resources with the A&D. A&D + Nurse = amazing, amazing, amazing. Free sac at the end of the turn opens up a (0), get a better Cb, better Wk... man. I wish. And with Nico Bolstering? What's the A&D at? Cb 13? /drools.

Of course, there are drawbacks to using it with Nico. Like the fact that it's going to be half your list and never give you a counter. On the plus side, it can turn any model in the game into a corpse (SPA -> Corpse).

Anyway, they each have their ups. I'd rather use it with Leveticus because they fit each other well, but I'm going to haul it out with Nico one day and cackle with glee. Hopefully in 35ss with a Nurse and Molly. Give it Wk like 11 and Cb 13, Reactivate. Hahahaha. Oh the maniacal laughter I shall create on that day.

[Oshova]

Oh man. I wish I had Nico's resources with the A&D. A&D + Nurse = amazing, amazing, amazing. Free sac at the end of the turn opens up a (0), get a better Cb, better Wk... man. I wish. And with Nico Bolstering? What's the A&D at? Cb 13? /drools.

Of course, there are drawbacks to using it with Nico. Like the fact that it's going to be half your list and never give you a counter. On the plus side, it can turn any model in the game into a corpse (SPA -> Corpse).

Anyway, they each have their ups. I'd rather use it with Leveticus because they fit each other well, but I'm going to haul it out with Nico one day and cackle with glee. Hopefully in 35ss with a Nurse and Molly. Give it Wk like 11 and Cb 13, Reactivate. Hahahaha. Oh the maniacal laughter I shall create on that day.

Any excuse to bring out Miss Pack and Molly, and them be useful is good in my book. But them and A&D quickly fills up your SS. But it would be cool to bring out in those games where you only have 1 or 2 models to kill to neutralise a crew.

[Guy in Suit]

This thread just got a hell of a lot more interesting!

I was very meh on A+D due to the model, but I this really makes me want to give it a whirl.

[Lucidicide]

Any excuse to bring out Miss Pack and Molly, and them be useful is good in my book. But them and A&D quickly fills up your SS. But it would be cool to bring out in those games where you only have 1 or 2 models to kill to neutralise a crew.

Yeah. I'm not saying it's good, really. I'm saying it's hilariously awesome. And as you say, any excuse for Molly. I love that lady, even if I can't quite figure out how to make her worth it.

[DireTrollJake]

AD Has been on my next to buy list for some time, seeing as my Levi army is one my my almost fully painted, and I want more stuff! Also, been looking at branching my outcasts to Res for Nico when his Avatar hits...so even better!

[Kael Hate]

Played a game Last Friday Night to test out Molly.

Outcasts Crew - 25 - Scrap

Leveticus, Steampunk Necromancer

--

3 Pool

Molly Squidpiddge

[9ss]

• Ashes and Dust
  [13ss]
  
  

VS

Guild Crew - 25 - Scrap

Sonnia Criid

--

4 Pool

Purifying Flame [2ss]

• Witchling Handler
  [7ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  
• Witchling Stalker
  [4ss]
  
  

Main purpose was to use Imbue Vigor on Levi and do pop and run attacks. Question, is that 9" extra range worth 9ss? Can Molly actually do anything else useful in Levi's Camp?

So, on the first turn, I imbue Levi and A&D. He moves the handler out to start crossing the table. Levi shoots over and turns the Handler into a SPA. He is shocked at Levi's attack range and ability to ignore magic resistance (Most of Levi's Spells directly hit Wds some Magic resist does nothing as it only reduces Dg). He realises I'm setting up the A&D and promptly cuts down my created Abomination as to stop A&D from hopping straight into their deployment zone.

Rest of the Game, Molly stood around as Levi got his killing spells reflected onto himself and A&D cut down the opposing crew 1 a turn from the second turn on.

Was Molly worth 9ss? I'd say 50/50. 3 Steampunk Abominations could have pulled Ashes & Dust 12" across the table and likely gotten 1 or 2 into combat. Levi could have killed things at a shear limit from the second turn. (Note Levi should companion the Waifs most times and move them first or they die if Levi is over 10" away and going to die in the end phase)

Anyone have opinions or instructional advice on Molly?

[Adanedhel]

I hot some advice, play towards your strategies, Molly does this moreso then any other Henchman in the game.

I see her as a toolbox, that always got just that trick to make your opponents life more miserablt (on the board, I prefer to be civil and funny out of it)

For example, when playing a Slaughter, and if Molly would get killed, cast Philosophy of Uncertainty, so that you sac yourself before you get killed, if you take out your chosen Kill Protegee the better

Also in tournaments, Molly gives you the chance to execute Bodyguard in a Leveticus list, which he cannot do himself.

Imbue Vigor has already be mentioned by you, and really is worht it weight in gold.

When playing against living models, (0) Impossible Knowledge makes your opponent just that little bit more anxious about attacking your Waifs.

Whispered Secret, because extra Unnatural Wastings are Always good

Terrible Secret work pretty well if you believe a certain model is going to be very dangerous, but Leveticus can't activate yet/ can't spend his resources killing it (for example because of target saturation).

Also, by manner of SPA deth you might get to pick up enough CorpseCounters during a game to get an extra rotten belle (one game I've been able to make 3 of them )

and really, when the opponent picks her for Kill Protegee, and you got a high crow in your hand, let her 'kill her', the Slow to Die Philosophy of Uncertainty, and he no longer got the points ^^

[magicpockets]

[quote=Adanedhel;385202

Also in tournaments, Molly gives you the chance to execute Bodyguard in a Leveticus list, which he cannot do himself.

[Cunning]

Henchmen don't cout as leaders or minions when hired under another master, so you can't take bodyguard with Molly iirc

I almost said the exact same thing. Thankfully i checked the manual first. It says Master or Henchman rather than Leader.

[Fetid Strumpet]

Correct. My opinion, which has to be understood in the context of never having used Molly with any master other than Seamus is this, from a competitive standpoint, she is WAY overcosted for what you get. Imbue vigor may be awesome in certain situations, however you need to have one of 8 cards in the deck that will allow you to cast the spell, and be willing to use high card, if that's what it is, as a boost in speed, rather than in a duel.

She is also, I think, the most suit dependent model in the game. All of her triggers require a crow, Undead Construction, Whispered Secret, and The Philosophy of uncertainty all require crows, and Imbue Vigor requires a mask. Additionally she really has no action modifier. Sure she has instinctual, but you'll almost always be using one of those to reactivate pitiful, and unless you are facing living opponents there really isn't a good reason to use most of her other 0 actions. So you are investing 9SS in a model that functions pretty much as a basic minion in terms of actions, is suit dependent, has no threat to speak of, and without Seamus, is REALLY slow, as her walk is only 4, and she doesn't buff herself with Extraordinary Dead...

I'm Molly's #1 fan, and perhaps there are unreleased Horrors that synergize with her and bring her up to being worth the cost through interactions, but at the moment, from a strictly cost/return standpoint I'd say you can do much better. Like Collodi, a very well designed addition to the crew, and one of the best Henchmen in the game.

[Kael Hate]

Probably turning more into a Ressers Topic than Outcasts but...

Are you allowed to make a willpower duel to resist the Sacrifice effect of Philosophy?

If I link Grave spirit to Levi and run him across the map, can he try Philosophy and live through it? Levi can load the cards. If grave Spirit is Companion[Master] (no card in front of me) he can shoot on the same activation. A heat seeking missile of sorts since Levi's crew is all cold lol.

[Lucidicide]

No. Sacrificing your own model is an Additional Requirement. There is no Rst for you.

[Adanedhel]

Correct. My opinion, which has to be understood in the context of never having used Molly with any master other than Seamus is this

There's your problem

Leveticus is NOT a Rezzer master, in fact, Leveticus is a nuke, first and foremost.

Seamus already has the tricks that make Molly tick, and better so, Leveticus however does not have those.

Survivability is what Molly can offer, and support, Seamus offers both of these more or less, but Levi can hire Molly to get those.

Furthermore, Leveticus isn't nearly as crow dependant as Rezzer masters, Necrotic Unmaking doesn't need a crow, and the others can key of tomes, and can pick his minions so that all crows and Mask can be given to Molly. Molly gives Leveticus everything he misses as a master, and is autoinclude in my Levicrews (untill I'm going to try out the Hodgepodge for fun and giggles that is), as one of the better VP/SS output minions.

While Ressers are very crowdependent and buffingfocussed, I can see why Molly is to expensive, just as you're not going to hire Hamelin the Ratcatcher in a Zoraidacrew, he's overkill, and to much of the same, with to much dependency on the same stuff, but in a Pandora crew he really shines.