Dispel Magic Question

[SnG]

I know it has been asked before but i could not find a thread that answered any questions, If it was answered My searching was flawed.

If i run desperate mercs, with a witchling, afterh the merc activates for my family and goes bounding in to the enemy, can i walk up and dispel for my family after but before the end of the start phase so he is not sacrificed?

I see it as an effect with the +3 in duels and positive flips, but if it is dispelled then then that same effect that sacs him would not be in play at the end of the turn he would and live to cost me a soulstone?

Edited October 11, 2011 by SnG

[Ratty]

It's places an effect on the model so yes you should be able to remove it before the sacrifice part of the effect comes into play.

[Asphyxxious]

So then for clarification what exactly is an effect? I read it in the rules manual but it just kinda confused me. What the rules manual says seems to imply that pretty much everything is an effect of some sort. Is that pretty much true? If thats the case dispel magic pretty much just gets rid of anything then?

[sephiroa]

So then for clarification what exactly is an effect? I read it in the rules manual but it just kinda confused me. What the rules manual says seems to imply that pretty much everything is an effect of some sort. Is that pretty much true? If thats the case dispel magic pretty much just gets rid of anything then?

big difference between an effect and an ability is:

an ability can give effects: (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert

effects: some spells and actions can give effects, again (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert.

BUT: dispel magic allows you to get rid of 1 effect: thus remove the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert.

but models with that said ability will get it again, because an ability keeps getting the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert no matter what,

but the spell or action wich allows you to get the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert, isn't always active, so you lose that effect.

so to use dispel magic on lilith on her (+1)fast is useless, but to dispel magic on the desp merc to remove the effect is not useless

(now i hope I'm right,,,)

[sephiroa]

soo to answer that question, you could get rid of anything, but some would come back, because of abilities,

[Asphyxxious]

I am still trying to find out the exact definition of an effect. Not necessarily about the dispel magic. Just the term effect confuses me somewhat. It seems extremely broad. From what i see it seems to be anything that falls under the ability category with a bold term. Also lets say a spell gives you an aura.. can you dispel magic on that model and the aura is gone? I am really not trying to be difficult its just that an "effect" does not have a clear definition to me.

[Asphyxxious]

soo to answer that question, you could get rid of anything, but some would come back, because of abilities,

So everything is an effect then?

[Ratty]

anything that changes how a model works from what is on the card is an effect.

A few things don't count like Wounds, being Dead & Falling Back.

[sephiroa]

I am still trying to find out the exact definition of an effect. Not necessarily about the dispel magic. Just the term effect confuses me somewhat. It seems extremely broad. From what i see it seems to be anything that falls under the ability category with a bold term. Also lets say a spell gives you an aura.. can you dispel magic on that model and the aura is gone? I am really not trying to be difficult its just that an "effect" does not have a clear definition to me.

well, effect, is everything that gives a model something extra,

(+1)fast, (+1) melee expert, a buff, hard to wound.

model A gives an aura, model B has a buff from it, to get rid of the buff, you need to get rid of the aura, thus dispel it from model A and not model B because model B would still get the buff.

it does not have a clear difinition, because it's kinda everything, every buff, pulse, aura, (+1) (-1) they are all effects,

[Asphyxxious]

Hmm ok i think i am starting to get it. So to be clear a spell isnt an effect right? They can produce effects but they themselves arent effects?

[Ratty]

Hmm ok i think i am starting to get it. So to be clear a spell isnt an effect right? They can produce effects but they themselves arent effects?

right. quite a lot of spells have effects that work instantaneously apply Wounds or Kill a model and then immediately disappear so you don't need to worry about them. The only effects that really matter are those that have an end time, like the end of turn or the end of the game.

[Asphyxxious]

BUT: dispel magic allows you to get rid of 1 effect: thus remove the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert.

but models with that said ability will get it again, because an ability keeps getting the (+1)fast, (+1) melee expert no matter what,

So the said abilities that models will get no matter what are what exactly? Any ability actually printed on the card? so anything like fast melee expert hard to wound slow to die anything like that just keeps coming back since its actually printed on the card correct? But temporary effects such as the desp mercs do not because they are temporary? Just making sure i understand this correctly is all

[Asphyxxious]

right. quite a lot of spells have effects that work instantaneously apply Wounds or Kill a model and then immediately disappear so you don't need to worry about them. The only effects that really matter are those that have an end time, like the end of turn or the end of the game.

Ok thank you that is very good to know. Thanks for answering all of these questions. Was just rather confused as to what the definition of an effect actually was

[fishtank]

so, can I dispel magic a hex taking away my executioners love the job?

[Fastenhate]

anything that changes how a model works from what is on the card is an effect.

A few things don't count like Wounds, being Dead & Falling Back.

Is falling back not dispellable? Last I saw and just searched there wasn't a definative answer.

Thanks

[magicpockets]

so, can I dispel magic a hex taking away my executioners love the job?

Yes, there's a thread on this somewhere

[nix]

Rm Page 122

Game Effects

Effect is a game term referring to anything that changes a model's state. Some models are able to ignore or are immune to game effects (x). A model immune to or able to ignore X cannot be affected or modified by X when resolving the effect. Duels requiring X do not occur.

So, yes, effects are very broad. While I understood Falling back opposite to how Ratty ruled above, the rest of his post is exactly as it says. Anything that changes a model's state is an effect. A model's state would thus (inference mine) be defined as the base state of their card.

So, for some examples based on my understanding:

• Desperate Merc "For My Family" is dispel-able, keeping it from being sacrificed at the end of the turn.
  
• Voodoo Doll conduit can be dispelled from the target model stopping the no LOS spell targeting
  
• Hooded Rider Passage of Time effect (Morning/Noon/Night) can be dispelled dropping its abilities gained (and due to the rule, stopping him from regaining the abilities)
  
• Perdita Quick Draw can be dispelled stopping her from shooting you
  
• Guardian's protect can be dispelled stopping it from taking wd's for other models
  
• Moleman's tunneling can be dispelled, removing their extra armor
  
• Myranda's shapechange can be dispelled, turning her back into a girl
  
• and lots more.
  

Dispel is a great spell with lots of creative uses.