Viks Avatar, Feikcorps and one really desperate mercenary .

[TimeLapse]

Hey been kicking around some mean ideas, please let me know if I am using any of the rules wrong, I don't want to cheat but here is my list and tactic ideas.

1. Okay I am taking at 40ss

The Vicks + avatar (Is this 2 SS or 4ss because there two masters, im thinking the avatar will cost me 4ss)

Viks + Avatar 4ss

Von Schill 9ss

Feikorps Trapper 6ss

Feikorps Specialist 5ss

Feikorps Librarian 7ss

Convect Gunslinger 5ss

Desperate Mercenary 2ss

Total 37 with a 3ss in the bank.

So the idea is this, since in the twisting fates book the Victorias first manifest Requirement does not need to kill an enemy model I instead fulfill this requirement the first turn by killing the Desperate mercenary with "Sisters in battle: Fury" spell in effect cast by the vik not doing the killing.

So I got the first requirement down. During this the feikorps are holding the fort and getting into position in the center of the table holding back any enemy models trying to get close to my ViKs.

On turn two I Activate both Viks via companion. the first one manifests using the all action but I do not replace that one since the Victorias, Avatar of slaughter states I can replace any of the two viks I replace the one that has yet to activate giving my Avatar in play with full AP turn 2.

Hopefully i am getting all these rules right. Next since I will most likely be doing this manifesting far back there will be nothing to charge, if that being the case I would take 2 wounds and then cast the “Our kill” spell to swap places with one of my other models that is hopefully in combat for this vary porpoise setting the Viks into there mayhem and murder mahahaha.

Now some of those rules im not too sure about but if im right that makes the Victorias, Avatar of slaughter vary fast to bring out and deadly.

Now effects that the avatar have on my other models is big like the convict gunslinger who already has a ram on his CB now has Crit strike for it, greatly increases his damage output if I don’t get my mask for Trigger Happy.

As for the feikcorps having a possibility of getting a crit strike will bring up there over all damage output not a bad thing there. Also the ability to get my range fighter like The trapper out of combat by simply swapping them with the victoria’s Via their our kill spell would be fantastic.

If my interpretations of the manifests rules are correct then this would be interesting. But i have a nagging suspicion that something here is wrong (it seems too good to be true and so my mind says it is not going to be true.) But if im right then the Viks are going to be a force to be reckoned with.

What are your guys thoughts on this,

-Andrew

ps here picks of my puppet proxy

There a continued idea from my old puppet models i made a year or so ago

[Adran]

Doesn't woork like this.

Firstly, The Avatar is only 2 stones.

Secondly, when you manifest, you will replace Both Viks. The second one hasn't yet generated any AP, so the avatar is finished.

I know you only replace one, and remove the other but that is so you pick where on the board the avatar is, the replacement rules mean you carry on the activation you are on, in which you have done an all action, so have nothing left you can do.

I would expect the manifestation requirements to end up being enemy model, but thats only what I expect. Otherwise this set up works

[TimeLapse]

Doesn't woork like this.

Firstly, The Avatar is only 2 stones.

Secondly, when you manifest, you will replace Both Viks. The second one hasn't yet generated any AP, so the avatar is finished.

I know you only replace one, and remove the other but that is so you pick where on the board the avatar is, the replacement rules mean you carry on the activation you are on, in which you have done an all action, so have nothing left you can do.

I would expect the manifestation requirements to end up being enemy model, but thats only what I expect. Otherwise this set up works

Sweet there cheaper!

on the second bit I think I am still confused since the rule states that you use the replacement rules, and the replacement rule sate that they get any remaining unused AP from the model(s) they replace.

Since you only replace one Victoria and the other is simply removed from game. I read it as the replaced model will be the one that didn't take the (all) action, so it is the replaced model for the replacement rules, that would mean that the Avatar would get the 2 unspent AP from the replaced model since the one that spent the actions was not replaced at all but removed from game.

It is confusing on how it is worded since you don’t have to replace the one that spends all the AP to manifest (that one is removed from game) then logic-ly you would get the AP from the others using the replacement rules they say to use.

This needs I think to be worded better on the card when they make the model, I may have to post this in the rules forum.

I am thinking your right for sure with the third one, that will I think be fixed.

[Math Mathonwy]

No idea of anything else, but that is one sweet proxy you've got there - brilliant!

[Adran]

I'll stick with answering here rather than discuss over two threads.

Hopefully the rules one will say I'm right, bbut you never know...

For the replacement rules in the rules manual, I would get the AP from the models.

The Viktoria that hasn't activated hasn't got any AP yet as they are generated when it starts its activation, which, despite being companioned, it hasn't done yet.

The Avatar will carry on the current activation, and looking at the actions currently spent in this activation it will see (all) meaning that it has none left.

I've reached 0 on two different ways, both following replace rules for AP generation (as seen in Steampunk arachnids and Steampunk abominations) and continuinmg the activation.

I'm pretty sure the slight wording difference is just to allow you to choose which Vik to replace, not just the acting one.

[TimeLapse]

That could be the case but in the way it is worded you do not replace the one that took the all action in the first place that one is instead removed from the game not through the replacement rules but before hand in the manifest rules, so none of the replacement rules read like they effect the removed from play model.

If you replace the one that has yet to activate and use the replacement rules it says that replacing model gain any unused gen. AP the model had remaining and since it has yet to activate it would have all 2 actions remaining.

The way it is read from the rules is that you only replace one, and not the other, i think you may be right about it just being a placement effect but as it stands now the rule is massivly confusing in this respect since it reads to me that only one Viktoria is replaced my choice and the other is removed from game.

so this is how i see it happening,

I completed one of my manifest requirements on turn one, at the start of turn two I activate my two victorias, the first one goes and uses the all action to manifest.

I 1st Remove from game all totems attached to my Victorias

2nd I discard all tokens and game effects on my Victorias

3rd I replace the un-activated Victoria with my avatar and remove the one that took the all manifest action from the game. The Avatar take on any wounds that my viks had up to 10 in total.

4th I choose to make a healing flip

5th I replace my stat cards with the new ones and I continue activating my Victorias. Since the replace model is the one that did not use any AP this turn, using the replacement rules my avatar should come into the game without any spent AP, since the Victoria that spent any AP was not replaced but instead removed from game.

The full discussion is here http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25376 on the rules question forum.

[feygorr]

I remember seeing a post by Ratty i think, though I cant remember where or find it now that clarified this query.

Basically Adran is correct, when you replace models that haven't activated yet they still have 0 ap as ap are allocated when the model activates. So if one Viktoria takes an (all) manifest action the avatar comes into play with 0 ap as one Viktoria has used all her ap and the other doesn't have any yet.

Better to use all the first Viktoria's actions on getting into position and then manifest with the second.

Also, 3ss in the pool is nowhere near enough for the Viktorias. I never run with less than 6.

[sephiroa]

well since you DID the (all) action, you don't have any action points anymore

replace rule is for the model it replaces, and since you replace your model after you did the (all) action,

even though you replace the avatar with the one that didn't activated yet, they come together as one model.

but still, round 2 manifest is not bad

but you are correct about killing your own desp merc