newbie 25ss criid list

[fritz the cat]

so heres my list

Criid 8ss

purifying flame 2

death marshall 4

death marshall 4

Samael Hopkins 8

watcher 3

the basic concept is that the marshalls and hopkins blast away at range, criid and the totem throw around flame walls for a bit of protection/funnelling

as they get too close/start pinging away at the marshalls i use Criid to violate the marshalls into stalkers to mix it up in melee, getting some bonus hits on stuff with their slow to die. the totem is also a violate target in my mind as it can damage itself down to 1 wound over the game with its ranged attack though i wonder about being able to hit it at def8

the watcher is in there for a bit of deck cycling, opening up targets for hopkins and the marshalls aswell as jumping around to objectives

thats the basic concept for my first list ever in malifaux, tell me what ya think

[Brettqpublic]

Hi, I'm pretty new to the game too. I think your list is fine for 25SS although personally I'd rather start with two Stalkers on the table than 2 Marshals.

My first purchase was the Lady J starter and while the Marshals have been OK they haven't been great and in every game I played I wished they had more punch in melee.

[TheOneWhoFell]

It looks sound... Just remember that it may not work out the way you plan... your opponent may not allow you to make your extra stalkers, and using Criid's spells to kill off the DM's may be a waste of resources (her Ap)... or may be a waste of time (if the enemy models are close, she could die in the process).

I think it will work... I just like to play the devils advocate

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Also to build on what Fell stated, it sounds like you created a list based on a gunline to ne used to kill your opponent. This will soon come to light to you that this game doesn't work that way. You win by completing strategies and schemes. Your list will fail on most movement based ones like distract, and treasure hunt. It will do great in slaughter, and ok in stake a claim.

When building guild lists, focus on looking at what role each model in your crew will play and not so much what they will do first turn. Ressers and neverborn, are factions that rely more commonly on specific, starting points.

Welcome to the Law.

[TheOneWhoFell]

Big is right on that one too... You will have your strategy (worth up to 4Vp) before you build your crew for the encounter. The thought process for building a crew should look like this:

Declare Faction: my opponent is playing (faction x)... the models that are good agaisnt that faction are...

Flip for Strategy: I got (y)...my opponent got (z); I need to be able to (move quickly, shoot a lot, defend myself, etc). Don't forget to note your insignificant models too... this is important for Schemes...

Then you should build your crew. You can make your schemes fit into your strategy and crew, but it's important that you do things like take Breakthrough when you have Strategies that take you across the board anyway... or Stake a Claim when you have strategies that take you to the middle of your board.

[Barney]

I've never been a big fan of Sonnia totem, you need a high book to get anything out of it. I would prefer to drop it and 2ss to pick up another stalker to start.

I'd also recommend trying to fit an Austringer in there. they have always been great for me.

[fritz the cat]

so as ive said im pretty newbie, is the concept of "list building" in malifaux kind of a wasted effort? Would i be better off to focus on the strengths of models I have at hand to key them into certain strategies/schemes? and think of combos and such that could fit into a crew?

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Yes pretty much. List building is not a bad exercise, but if want to do, plan based on winning this strategy or defeating this kind of faction. By all means post lists it will at least help you hash our ideas.

Best way to get good feedback on list building post a list and strategy or enemy list you are taking on and ask for feedback.

For example my standard slaughter list is

Lady J

Judge

3 death marshals

And student of conflict at 25. I rely on my marshals and judge to get there kills in off there activations but know that slow to die will usually give me a fair trade.

Your criid list would be a solid slaughter list. Think of how you can make it deal with treasure hunt. The marker takes 2 to pick up and is just under 12" away. So to be effective you need to get a model there by turn 1 so you can pick up and move it br turn 3 make a list that can accomplish that. Or try making a list that can deny your opponent the ability to complete that ss their objective.

Edited September 28, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth

[TheOneWhoFell]

also, making a list for a tourney isn't a bad idea either. I usually run my tournements at 35ss fixed crew with a 15ss sideboard... so my players have to develope a take all comers crew list at 50ss. For Guild, this is easy: I build a high Ranged or Melee crew and sideboard the opposite... ('Dita, Sam, Judge, DMs with Stalkers on the side, for instance). The crew builder on Malifaux.com is helpful with this too.

Really, in a light hearted game, you should approach the table with a blank piece of paper until you declare factions... write down some ideas, then get your strategy and figure out what your Crew needs in order to succeed

[Brettqpublic]

As a new player I find this conversation very insightful. Malifaux is unique in war gaming in regards to the rules for list building.

Personally, I'd love to see an article on Pull My Finger explaining the thought process that goes into building a crew.

Thanks!

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

I have played both formats whole faction and sideboard tourneys the games built for the former. Right now the lgs I frequent most is just trying to bring back the community so they are doing the sideboard setup to be newb friendly. I think that is totally fair and a good way to introduce tourneys. My point is look at what style you are interested in playing, tourney or casual? And what kind of format is your lgs playing?

If you have to make an all comers list, because of money or lgs format, I works say your list is about 60% effective to strategies. Keep in mind denying vp is also a legitimate strategy and gun lines are usually the most effective at that in my opinion.

[Dark Alleycat]

Ok,Im someone that builds their lists ahead of time. Murphy and Bigglesworth can attest that those lists tend to do pretty well no matter what strategy pops up. The key to building a list like that,is to take each model you are going to use,and decide how many general uses it has.

For instance :

Stalker can do pretty good on manueverability,it is probably #3 on the list for most manueverable. It can also take care of itself in melee and in range,and can help interrupt your opponents spell casting. A good all around peice.

Austringer can do board control and area denial. Their ability to do 18 inch attacks that dont require LOS means you hide them,and let them make a part of the board unpleasent for your opponent. Best used to cover areas for recoinoiter and treasure hunt. Also very good for killing daydreams.

Santiago Can do alot of things. he can perform very well as a ranged threat. he is tough as hell and makes for an amazing Treasure Carrier.when wounded he can get up into the opponents side of the board pretty easily. He can also do decent board denial,since with two guns even hiding behind cover means he can still cheat his attack. I have found him to be a good substitute for Samael.

Basically you want to pick models that can do multiple jobs in a game,and able to do those jobs against most if not all of what your enemy can send at you. You use these to form the core of your lists,about...75 to 80% of your total SS cost,and then fill in the other 20% with models that will be focused on dealing with either your opponents faction or the strategy or scheme you are using or preventing your opponent from completing their strategy.

For instance :

Watcher to grab a breakthrough or stake a claim.

Abuela to do some fun chain activations and obeying models

Taelor if your opponent is going melee construct heavy.

Sue if your opponent is going to have alot of Obey/Lure models.

[fritz the cat]

after kinda going through the this thread ive started to shift, rather than focusing on models and their damage output. Ive started to really focus on the schemes and encounters section of the rulebook and put alot more thought into what is required to complete these objectives. Its kind of a mind warp from ever other game ive played where even in objective games you can figure "hey if i just kill them the objectives wont matter" whereas theres alot of things it seems in this game where you have to be willing to sacrifice models to get objectives.

[TheOneWhoFell]

That's the hardest part for most players. Malifaux is the only minis game I've ever played... and I still wanted to go out and destroy the opposing crew... I suffered some very frustrating defeats because I kept forgeting about my schemes and strategies. I write my goals down, and look at them while my opponent is moving his crew. It reminds me and reinforces the goals so I am more likely to get points for them.

[Mr. Bigglesworth]

Yeah that is some of the best advice I got, having Murphy describe a game where he list all his models but won because he had all his vp and his opponent had none and not enough turns left to complete. I don't take models solely for killing value, i also tend to be shy about taking too many high ss models against most opponents. Ryle has the capacity to wreck face, but I don't pick him for that I take him because he has the ability to move around the board faster then most guild models and still shoot meaning his attack vector for guild is huge 24". That means if you move out of deployment he can probably find a way to draw a bead on you.

After understanding schemes and strategies next thing you want to learn is activation order. For example your most threatening model is usually is you master meaning she is probably the last one you want to activate on turn one in hopes that you can move her into range to attack your opponent. But then want to likely activate her first on turn two to take out more threats. Or if Ryle is sitting on objective and I know he might die even though I can wipe half his army on turn 2 I will activate Ryle so I can work towards getting vp. Sometimes you have to turn down masking killing for model placement.

In summary activation order is usually another item people need to get use to that is different from other games like warmachines and warhammer, just like how you mentioned you need to get used to not mass killing. So get used to understanding how to play turn one to maximize your gaming potential. Since both these mechanics are less common in other major wargames, I suggest focus on understand those differences first when you start drawing up crews.

Edited September 29, 2011 by Mr. Bigglesworth