NOVA Open TO Report

[osoi]

Thats kind of what we are trying to do locally, fix elements of the crew construction to still help newer players enter while limiting the choices of the more experienced players in our community. I still think about half of the tourneys next year will be in this format as well but we will also be looking at Brawls and Single faction Open tournaments as well.

Its not just about being competitive but also growing a community too.

[Wulfen]

This is an opportunity to compare two tournaments' date=' played and reported almost at the same time and having completely different outcome - one with strong Nevernborn dominance, the other evenly spread.[/quote']

Even in the Perth tourney 3 of the top 6 were NB. Unless, by saying 'completely different outcome' you just meant that NB didn't win. Claiming half the top 5-6 spots is not something I'd consider 'evenly spread'.

[Q'iq'el]

Even in the Perth tourney 3 of the top 6 were NB. Unless, by saying 'completely different outcome' you just meant that NB didn't win. Claiming half the top 5-6 spots is not something I'd consider 'evenly spread'.

Sorry, but you are verging on demagogy here.

There were no NB in the top 2 spots!

All factions but the Rezzers got in the top 4 spots!1!

Dreamer placed lower than Ramos, OMG!

See what I'm doing? You don't cut the data arbitrarily to present an argument.

Top 10 is the upper half of the tournament. You can see very even spread and it also is a customary slice you can use for any tournament - that is interesting comparison, even if not carrying any other weight.

Top 3 is very interesting too - not only because of the "podium" placing, but also because all 3 players scored close and there are Guild, Outcast and Neverborn among them. Only NB master is considered "top tier" (even OP by some) on these forums and he landed 3rd.

Even more interested is Osoi input about Lilith player who ended up at the bottom spot, despite being considered a solid competitor by his peers. May be some random misfortune, series of bad matchings or simply very bad luck with cards thorough the tournament, but can you argue faction is consistently outperforming other factions, when such random events send a top player to the bottom of the tournament?

I don't know enough facts to argue any of those, but the point is simple - don't slice the pool to fit your argument. Think about conditions which made these results possible and try to apply your to your local tournaments. Perhaps it will fix the game better, than the arguments on these forums?

Edited August 29, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Q'iq'el]

Cross-posting Rathnard's observations from the other thread:

Well I'll share my thoughts.

The skill level of players varied from utter Malifaux newbies to seasoned veterans. For the most part, I think skill won out against any percieved power level between lists - most of the top 10 players were definite veterans of the game, and those who weren't are veteran wargamers anyway - certainly good enough to pick up on how a crew works in the limited time they were playing.

I can't remember the exact Viktorias list Mike used but he did have Von schill and the Librarian in there. He's one of the longest playing Malifaux gamers in Perth so his win was well deserved.

One thing I did find interesting was the prevalence of Von Schill. While nobody took him as a crew leader, there must have been at least 4-6 players who took him as a minion, including myself (The Marcus player), Nic (Colette) and the top two ranked players (Mike aka Massean and Chris).

I thought the Ramos crew was pretty interesting too - brass arachnid and Alyce, with enough steampunk aboninations on the side to build a desolation engine. I didn't play him but I'm pleasantly surprised to see that he ranked as high as he did.

[Math Mathonwy]

That I perfectly agree with (regardless of whether you're being sarcastic or not). But as we have the balance arguments raging in other threads' date=' it'd be nice to bring into light some other factors.[/quote']

No sarcasm there, I assure you.

OTOH IME 25SS gives more room for luck since your hand is so much more important. You're doing fewer actions, making fewer duels and therefore need to use your hand less. In other words, you have enough cards to cheat every important duel, if you happen to luck to a good hand. In bigger games there's so many important duels that your hand will run out of good cards during the turn.

Aye, it's not a bad practice. Fixed Master has the unfortunate match up problems (it's absolutely no fun to play Ophelia against Hamelin) but for newbies with only one crew to choose from that problem is present in Fixed Faction format as well.

[Q'iq'el]

OTOH IME 25SS gives more room for luck since your hand is so much more important. You're doing fewer actions, making fewer duels and therefore need to use your hand less. In other words, you have enough cards to cheat every important duel, if you happen to luck to a good hand. In bigger games there's so many important duels that your hand will run out of good cards during the turn.

I'm not sure about that particular point. I agree Control Hand importance increases in reverse to the amount of actions (even in small games some crews can field a horde of models), but I'm not sure if it makes games more random or not.

On one hand big discrepancy between both opponents Control Hand can lead to quick win by one of the sides, on the other Control Hand is more manageable - players can ensure they keep the right cards for the right moment, which diminishes the influence of random flips on the game. At worst we trade one type of randomness for the other, at best we're in situation where random outcome of flips can be mitigated by good resource management, more so than in the "big" games.

Same applies to Soulstones, to a degree (not to mention the fewer the actions, the higher is the masters influence on the game).

In a big game where Control Hand doesn't carry you far, you cannot help but rely on random flips for a big part of your actions. On the top of that, there are some card-draining combos you have to be prepared for, which further limits usefulness of the player's hand. Not so much in the smaller games.

But I think all that is of lesser importance - after all these affect both sides equally. What is really beneficial for the new players in the small game size is its master-centric character. For new players it means there's less to learn to be good, less to prepare to take part in the tournament, and more importantly, far fewer opponents' tricks to remember. The chance of getting exposed to combinations which even experienced players have serious problems with is considerably lower too.

All this, IMO, out-weights the small shift in the gameplay.

Edited August 29, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Math Mathonwy]

I'm not sure about that particular point. I agree Control Hand importance increases in reverse to the amount of actions (even in small games some crews can field a horde of models), but I'm not sure if it makes games more random or not.

On one hand big discrepancy between both opponents Control Hand can lead to quick win by one of the sides, on the other Control Hand is more manageable - players can ensure they keep the right cards for the right moment, which diminishes the influence of random flips on the game. At worst we trade one type of randomness for the other, at best we're in situation where random outcome of flips can be mitigated by good resource management, more so than in the "big" games.

Same applies to Soulstones, to a degree (not to mention the fewer the actions, the higher is the masters influence on the game).

In a big game where Control Hand doesn't carry you far, you cannot help but rely on random flips for a big part of your actions. On the top of that, there are some card-draining combos you have to be prepared for, which further limits usefulness of the player's hand. Not so much in the smaller games.

The way that small games tended to go in my experience was that one guy had a better hand (as is only normal) and then was able to cheat higher on the most important duels. Couple this with the fact that in smaller games recovering from losses is harder and the end result was that games tended to be more luck-driven.

When you need about three models to have a good chance of completing a given strategy and the opponent kills two of your five before they had time to activate, it really, really hampers your play in a way that is much harder to achieve in a bigger game.

But I think all that is of lesser importance - after all these affect both sides equally.

Well yeah, but they make the game seem a bit sillier than it really is. I know I liked the game a lot more when we got to the 35SS-sized games.

All this, IMO, out-weights the small shift in the gameplay.

Not arguing against them, really, just noting something I've experienced.

[tadaka]

Omfg i agree with q about something. I found that 25 and 30 point games play far better

. I would love to see more tournaments run in this lower range a lot of the realy powerful combos are kept in check by a slightly lower point total

[wrabbit37]

Wow, this thread has really grown since I was last here.

A huge thanks to Bill for running a great weekend. Sorry we had to head out before the midnight tournament - I would have loved to play in that one.

Working on posting my NoVA Open experiences on my blog if anyone's interested - I'm through the first two rounds of the 30 stone tournament. Sadly I don't have every move from the games, but after a good 9 or so games spread out over the weekend, I'm having trouble remembering what I did in any single game.

http://wrabbit37-legendaryblog.blogspot.com/

[ANGUS]

This is ANGUS from the NOVA. I left my things protected by the awesome of the Malifaux corner, but I could not protect them from my own forgetfulness.

I left a foam tray of Hoffman's painted crew, Lady J's primed crew, and Lucius's box unbuilt, along with my little rule book. The rule book has my name: Rick Bond written in the top left corner of the first page.

If anyone can track it down, or direct me to whomever has it, they will have my undying gratitude. The person who does have it, I will pay double the shipping costs if you can send it to me. Thank you for any help you can offer.

-Angus Bond

[wrabbit37]

Angus, send a PM to Bill (nix) - he had mentioned that he found a tray of models when he was cleaning up. I think he's got it for you.

[ANGUS]

I actually already emailed him directly at his gamerslounge email.

[nix]

This is ANGUS from the NOVA. I left my things protected by the awesome of the Malifaux corner, but I could not protect them from my own forgetfulness.

I left a foam tray of Hoffman's painted crew, Lady J's primed crew, and Lucius's box unbuilt, along with my little rule book. The rule book has my name: Rick Bond written in the top left corner of the first page.

If anyone can track it down, or direct me to whomever has it, they will have my undying gratitude. The person who does have it, I will pay double the shipping costs if you can send it to me. Thank you for any help you can offer.

-Angus Bond

Got you covered Angus! Your stuff is safely with me. I will PM you to make arrangements to get it returned.

Bill

[Wulfen]

Glad that worked out! That could've sucked if that stuff had disappeared.

[Wulfen]

I don't know enough facts to argue any of those' date=' but the point is simple - don't slice the pool to fit your argument.[/quote']

You have been using comments to fit yours ever since these threads have popped up. I'm through replying to your comments; it's obvious you have no intention of truly discussing game or balance issues, only to tell everyone else that they're 'arguing things incorrectly'.

Sorry to derail your thread, NOVA guys, hope you all had a good time.

[Hookers]

Differential is actually the format I like the least. it basically encourages people to take douche lists and deny the opponent any vp.

I actually like the format that was used, I was just making an after the fact joke about how dixon and I would've been 2nd and 3rd had vp differential been used.

I guess my joke required scouring the pdf to get it because even Bill was like "what's wrong with the format?" and I had no idea what he was talking about until he pointed out the post.

Had tons of fun at NOVA. Thanks so much Bill for running it, looking forward to any and all future events you are doing that I can make it to.

[ravenborne]

The interesting thing about the format is that it seems to encourage games that are not just slaughter fests, and it also seems that other factions have a shot at winning even without the 8-0 wipes.

That's certainly over simplifying things, but my point is that its nice to have a format where a Master/faction can win if played well and be competitive with Masters that usually win overall by getting high differentials.

[wrabbit37]

The format tends to be unforgiving at the top table. If you make it to the top table, you either win and stay there or you lose and drop pretty far. I would be curious to see where the people who played the top table in rounds 2, 3 and 4 ended up in the standings.

[Baneon]

Through the breach. Round 3 on the top table loss dropped me to playing Dixon on the 5th table and that loss ended me at 15th place.

[nix]

Statistics, Statistics, Statistics....

Ok, I will get some of the overall Stats from the weekend posted in a second, but first I want to point you to another thread. Go over here and check out the NOVA Open 2011 Picture Thread then come back and read this thread.

Through the Breach and Midnight Madness were well covered earlier in the thread.

For Bayou Five Card we had a solid number of attendees, enough that I need to restructure the event a bit for future use. People were not rotating onto the board fast enough, although lots of folk got chances for extra achievement games.

Carl Winter won 1st place in Bayou Five Card, being awarded Zoraida's Favorite with a full house (8's over 9's I believe).

Chris Ward won second place, with a mini-Zoraida (Alt Sculpt) but no cool title. He had a par of face cards.

The two "Bad Things Happens" achievement leagues were hugely popular. Here are some cool stats:

• 401 total achievements earned on Friday
  
• 922 was the total achievement score for Friday
  
• Zee took the overall achievement total for Friday with a total score of 72 across 33 achievements
  

• 344 total achievements earned on Saturday
  
• 810 was the total achievement score for Saturday
  
• Ken Aponte took the overall achievement total for Saturday with a total score of 98 across 42 total achievements.
  

We had a lower number of participants on Saturday due to some people choosing to play in the 40K events Saturday. This was made up for with an incredible increase in overall achievements and Malifaux games played.

[CrazyCarl]

Carl Winter won 1st place in Bayou Five Card, being awarded Zoraida's Favorite with a full house (8's over 9's I believe).

Fittingly, with Som'er Teeth! Ophelia's "Ohh a Girl" really helped out his mobility. My favorite part of that event was Perdita being killed by Malifaux Rats.

[acidix]

Does anyone have the player's packet for the achievement league? I was really curious about what kinds of achievements were being tracked!

edit: Found part of it

http://www.novaopen.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Bad-Things-Happen-Achievement-League-Packet.pdf

Is there a distributable of the actual achievements?

Edited August 30, 2011 by acidix

[nix]

Attached is the Achievement List we used for the NOVA Open. Each of these sections was printed out on its own card-stock card, which could then be punched by staff with specific hole punches. We had bone-shaped hole punches to assure tracking (no one could just punch a pen through the card).

Achievement List.pdf

[acidix]

Super cool, looks really really fun!

[Hookers]

Fittingly, with Som'er Teeth! Ophelia's "Ohh a Girl" really helped out his mobility. My favorite part of that event was Perdita being killed by Malifaux Rats.

My favorite part was when there were two rows of five rats each surrounding Som'er who all disappeared when Hamelin got peacekeeper'd