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Exorcist - one too many anti-resurrectionists?


rigol

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I've heard about the new Rulebook 3 character called the Exorcist, who's another anti-undead, anti-spirit person.

Mine is a simple question. Why are Guild being loaded up with so many anti-ressurectionist choices? Is balance suffering?

I suppose the truthful answer could be that Ressurectionists are pretty good points value and adaptable (through summoning), but balanced out by:

- Not being able to shoot glass cannon Neverborn very well

- Not being able to get corpse counters from constructs

- Suffering to Guild anti-Resser choices.

But still sounds like fighting against a crew of Jady Justice, an Exorcist etc would be almost unwinnable.

Edited by rigol
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Eh, depends on which master you use. I don't have much trouble against Lady J with Seamus. But maybe that's me.

Also I think it's more of a fluff thing. Fluff wise the guild has an entire department devoted to killing ressers, and Malifaux is a very fluff based game (as most minis games are).

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Well considering the LJ crew does not do so well against spirits I think he is just there to add a little help in that department. Guild tend to stack the deck against there opponents, it is just their thing. Over all I don't think I would be too worried about it. Rezzers will still be able to hold their own plenty against them all the same.

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Here's the thing though...they still only are taking at most 3 models with Last Rites. Fluffwise, it makes sense, and, to be honest, Wyrd tends to be more about fluff than anything else. But, even beyond that, it's one Faction, against one Faction. And it's primarily three models. The Exorcist isn't even that scary, at least to me. But what else would you expect from a Death Marshal? For him to be anti-Neverborn? I play Ressurectionist and Arcanist, and I'm more concerned about the Witchling Handler because it buffs the anti-magic units to be more durable, and very quick. Wyrd's playtesters are some of the best out there in the industry. Do they let things through sometimes? Yes. But trust them before you start panicking.

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Really the whole anti resser thing seems to effect nico the most. All the book 2 masters kinda douche him because their units don't drop counters, lady j is his arch nemesis, and the exorcist just adds insult to injury.

Don't get me wrong, the exorcist is good vs ressers in general, but it helps add general balance for.guild against all things non living. Thats undead, spirits, nightmares soulless, etc. Yeah it is a bit of a kick in the face for ressers which have a couple masters who already don't match up all that well against guild, but ressers got some nasty stuff in book 3 too.

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Really the whole anti resser thing seems to effect nico the most. All the book 2 masters kinda douche him because their units don't drop counters, lady j is his arch nemesis, and the exorcist just adds insult to injury.

I agree that the not dropping corpse counters is an annoying development. In book one it was kinda rare but currently not dropping them seems to almost be the norm with all the spirits and nightmares and constructs and "does not drop counters"-shenanigans.

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Rezzers as a whole faction suffer piles of glaring weaknesses. Most Neverborn lists drops no corpse counters, many Arcansist lists drops very few, other Rezzer lists will use them themselves. The same applies for living-targeted effects; many Rezzer abilities are based around only working on living models (Terrifying is a big example) and you pay lots of points for these only to have them ignored by a large percentage of lists in the game. Adding specific anti-rezzer model is the least of Rezzer worries, but it is interesting how they choose to continually release anti-Rezzer models, with a few generic 'anti magic' models, and basically 0 anti-Neverborn models.

These models aren't really what Guild needs, though; they're in a worse condition than Rezzers are, as a faction. At least Rezzers have Kirai to play when they want a master capable of competing on a competitive level; Guild don't even have one master at that level and their minion choices in general are pretty poor with the odd exception. They suffer from having normal maneuverability with no particular movement tricks, and they (like all of the other non Neverborn factions / non book 2 masters) need this weakness to be addressed if they hope to win anything consistently. They don't need more slow, specific use oneshot models.

Many crews in this game are balanced versus some other crews, but in the case of Rezzers they are only able to reach full potential versus a very limited number of lists, and unfortunately many of these lists are relatively unpopular due to the fact that most of the 'OP/strong' lists are mostly or exclusively nonliving.

This game is not balanced, is pretty much my tagline right now. You just have to accept it and play the game despite it.

Edited by Calmdown
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Add it to your sig, it'll stop you having to type it every time you post. :D

<plug> I wrote a post about this on my new blog at the weekend </plug>

And you already have a response awaiting moderation :P

In seriousness, sigging it detracts from the validity of the argument. "zomg neverborn are op" is a worthless comment in a vacuum, and the whole argument assumes people are playing competitively, which of course not everyone does.

But lets take this elsewhere :P

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Rezzers as a whole faction suffer piles of glaring weaknesses. Most Neverborn lists drops no corpse counters, many Arcansist lists drops very few, other Rezzer lists will use them themselves. The same applies for living-targeted effects; many Rezzer abilities are based around only working on living models (Terrifying is a big example) and you pay lots of points for these only to have them ignored by a large percentage of lists in the game. Adding specific anti-rezzer model is the least of Rezzer worries, but it is interesting how they choose to continually release anti-Rezzer models, with a few generic 'anti magic' models, and basically 0 anti-Neverborn models.

Most Neverborn crews do drop Corpse counters, only Knightmares don't, woes and Nephlim still drop them, Zoraida normaly playing living models exapt Bad Juju or somthimes the hooded rider

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well, i play with Nico very well, and i can always summon an extra counter.

guild has only 2 anti rezzers atm, justice and exorcist,

guild crews drop a lot of counters, and you can create them with some minions (mortimer, sebastian) or spam them with dogs to create something bigger when they die.

i understand why guild crews get these extra minions vs rezzers and arcanists, they are they elite to hunt them down. fluff wise its only normal they get stuff like this.

try to play against a collidi crew with nicodem, no counters what so ever. but who says you are going to lose?

why do some people always have to make these criticism before they even played a game with it? it all depends from your oponent, and even then, there are only 4-6 crews that will never drop a corpse counter. kirai dreamer, ramos, hoffman, hamelin and levi perhaps.

there will be moments that your crew will not work at full potential, that's what makes these games so funny, you never know what will happen.

if i could summon a rouge necromancy at turn 2 because i killed this many enemies, the game would be boring.

the balance in the game is that there isn't a supperior crew,

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These models aren't really what Guild needs, though; they're in a worse condition than Rezzers are, as a faction. At least Rezzers have Kirai to play when they want a master capable of competing on a competitive level; Guild don't even have one master at that level and their minion choices in general are pretty poor with the odd exception.

I agree with much of your post, but I'm curious as to how this sweeping statement includes Perdita Ortega and C. Hoffman.

Regardless, on to the stuff I agree with! Right now, Wyrd is the new guy. They're making a ton of seemingly minor mistakes (Critical Strike/Brutal, the ineffectiveness of some Masters, Hard to Wound, bad mechanical decisions made for fluff sake, building a game around scenarios but waiting three books to design models that take this into account), but they're allowed to, because they're the New Guy. Balance really isn't the most worrisome thing right now. What needs to happen is that they come into a better understanding of their own game theory. Better games come from that than trying to chase the Dragon of Balance.

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I think you've got a point. When I play my McMourning crew I just assume my opponent won't be dropping counters and work from there.

Absolutely, and that's what makes him workable, because he's not reliant on a condition existing (living/undead models) that he has no control over.

But then...how many tournaments have you won with McMourning, or even chosen to play him at?

try to play against a collidi crew with nicodem, no counters what so ever. but who says you are going to lose?

why do some people always have to make these criticism before they even played a game with it? it all depends from your oponent, and even then, there are only 4-6 crews that will never drop a corpse counter. kirai dreamer, ramos, hoffman, hamelin and levi perhaps.

there will be moments that your crew will not work at full potential, that's what makes these games so funny, you never know what will happen.

if i could summon a rouge necromancy at turn 2 because i killed this many enemies, the game would be boring.

the balance in the game is that there isn't a supperior crew,

A henchman having such a fundamental lack of understanding of the game makes me :(

Edited by Calmdown
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He's right though. Only Nicodem really is reliant on your opponent having corpse counters, and even then not that reliant.

Seamus summons so slowly you will probably never get through your own corpse counters in the course of a game, and the few crews that can get rid of those counters drop counters in their own right.

McMourning has A Piece for Me that works on everything and can also give himself an early boost if he needs it with his own dogs.

Kirai can be played in a way where she is not really reliant on getting Seishin back. I know I have had many games where I've not placed a single Seishin and won.

When it comes to the Exorcist he's slow, only got a 3" walk. and not that hard to kill. Any Kirai player worth her salt would make it a priority and ambush it before it had any effect on the game. It's just like Misaki which is a far more effective anti Kirai model and has always been available to the Guild.

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A henchman having such a fundamental lack of understanding of the game makes me :(

I'm sorry to make you sad, but in my opinion it makes me sad that other people only play to win, and sometimes forget to have some fun. an please explain where my fundamental lack of understanding of the game would be.

and ratty, who is right? me or Calmdown? :)

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I'm sorry to make you sad, but in my opinion it makes me sad that other people only play to win, and sometimes forget to have some fun. an please explain where my fundamental lack of understanding of the game would be.

and ratty, who is right? me or Calmdown? :)

No-ones right it's just opinions, but as a Resurrectionist player that normally wins my personal opinion is more in line with yours. I also personally feel a lot of people see an issue or lose a game and just give up thinking that the opponent is overpowered rather than trying to think about how to deal with the issue. Look at Pandora, on paper almost impossible to beat, people say playing her is like being stuck under a burning couch. But actually I've rarely lost against her, why, because I didn't panic, read what she did, altered my play style.

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I'm sorry to make you sad, but in my opinion it makes me sad that other people only play to win, and sometimes forget to have some fun. an please explain where my fundamental lack of understanding of the game would be.

and ratty, who is right? me or Calmdown? :)

That starts an argument that I'm not sure I want to see on these forums...that's one of those that only ends in fire, anger, rage and bitterness...

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