osoi Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 Good point, and that brings me to another question. I find that most games I end up deploying first which seems to put me at a disadvantage because I always feel like I could have done a better job after seeing my opponent's deployment. Do you have any tips for this? Maybe I just have a hard time predicting how my opponent is going to deploy because I am ignorant to how most other armies work. Also, I'm seeing The Hanged mentioned a lot in this thread. On a scale of 1 to 10, how important is that model for me to pick up? If I can only make 1 more purchase for Malifaux for the next month what would be the most important? I currently have: Seamus, 3 Belles, Madame Sybelle, Copycat Killer, Grave Spirit, Bete Noire, and Convict Gunslinger. Agree with Buhalin on both points. I personally LOVE The Hanged, they take a little getting used to and how everything stacks together with them but once you have figured that out you will go from strength to strength. If you only have the one purchase for the next month they are a highly reccomended pick up form me. As for deploying first or second, I vary a bit, sometimes if I deploy first I deliberately deploy a Belle on either flank and then the rest in centre or something like that and then use the belle's lures on my own models to adjust my board position in the first turn, it may seem like a waste of a turn but you can catch people off guard as they react to your deployment of which you can quite quickly alter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted August 10, 2011 Report Share Posted August 10, 2011 I love the Hanged. I don't expect him to apply damage like Calmdown does (I have to admit I find it odd that he would diss Bete's damage line, then include the Hanged as a damage dealer) but he provides an absolutely incredible range of debuffs and Terror infliction. You find it hard to believe that dealing an automatic 4 damage against anything with 7 wounds (and scaling against higher wound targets) is better than dealing 2/3/4? I was here thinking that an automatic 4 was better than a chance of 4 And even against 5/6 wound models you're hitting for her midrange damage. 2/3/4 is a pathetic damage line for a 9 point model. The fact that she has flurry only covers for what lacks in her damage line in the first place, and costs you a card plus locks you in to one target. Bete is a valid choice as a control model handing out paralyzed/slow and insignificant, but in a list full of control you want kill potential, not 9 more points of control (which Molly does better, I should add). And Slow to Die / One with the Night is not a great asset. Again, it's just covering for her weakness of being horribly easy to kill. This is Bete all over; strengths that are completely offset by huge weaknesses. Not really what you want in a 9 point package that competes directly with the likes of Dead Rider, Rogue Necromancy and Shikome for your aggro slot, all of whom aggro better and survive longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Alleycat Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 (edited) Playing Seamus,the board is your playground. Period. The thing I have found that works very well for me,is to allways pair your belle's with another model. So you have a Crooked man,a Punk zombie and a Convict gunslinger as your combat potential. You pair a belle with each one,and you use the belle to bring your target to your killer and then you take them out. a Crooked man,punk zombie and belle makes a wonderful set up. you make them walk over the shafted marker,right into the melee of the punk zombie. they are paralyzed or allready softened up,and the zombie rips them a new one. Also remember that the shafted marker only activates when you end a movement. So you can put them on a model that has allready activated that you dont want charged. Onyro and Hanged also make for a very very good option. the first time you field an Onyro against the Ortegas,watch their jaw drop i guarentee. "What do you mean Perdita is now affected by willpower duels? Why is that hanged looking at me so hungrily?" Edited August 11, 2011 by Dark Alleycat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Where I see Bete excelling is being able to get Slit Jugular off and become a card drain, she works incredibly well with Leve due to this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 You find it hard to believe that dealing an automatic 4 damage against anything with 7 wounds (and scaling against higher wound targets) is better than dealing 2/3/4? I was here thinking that an automatic 4 was better than a chance of 4 And even against 5/6 wound models you're hitting for her midrange damage. And against smaller targets you do less damage. It can't actually kill anything on its own (and weren't you all over the "It can't counterattack when it's dead" bandwagon a thread or two back?). Hurt, yes, kill, no. It will also typically draw high cards in response - the guarantee you like so much means the opponent will often be unwilling to take the hit the way they might from Bete, and because Whisper is a spell it makes it easier to resist. There's also enough Immune to Influence stuff out there to make it unreliable. I obviously love the Hanged, but as a primary damage dealer I just think it comes up short. To each their own, though. Different styles is why we have different models Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinsation Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Onyro and Hanged also make for a very very good option. the first time you field an Onyro against the Ortegas,watch their jaw drop i guarentee. "What do you mean Perdita is now affected by willpower duels? Why is that hanged looking at me so hungrily?" With undead psychosis the belle spells being WP, and train of fear and terrifying, having that onryo to strip away WP immunity and bonuses would seem great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 With undead psychosis the belle spells being WP, and train of fear and terrifying, having that onryo to strip away WP immunity and bonuses would seem great. I find this to be one of those things that looks great on paper, but not so much in practice. In general, it takes two activations to pull off and you've got no way to chain-activate the Hanged after the Onryo, so more than likely your opponent will just move away from the Hanged. Depending on the target Seamus might be fast enough to catch up, but it would take a lot of AP. Against Perdita it's even worse - her Ca is high enough that you're already 2 down on the duel, and she can always soulstone - again, assuming you can catch her, which at Wk 6+Fast seems pretty unlikely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornelious1424 Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 It's not like you are going to be facing an entire crew that is immune to Wp duels anyway. The Onryo is nice for when you face a Peacekeeper or another model that is Immune to Influence, and can do some nice damage after you drop Trail of Fear. I wouldn't consider it an "auto include" to a Seamus list. Also, you can't target multiple models with Mark of Jigouku unless you spam cast it twice. I'd rather use it for damage than for 1 spell. Being able to target a models Wp with a melee strike, after it has suffered a -2 to Wp from Trail of fear, is nice. For me though, I'd rather have another Belle and the SS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soundwave Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Who cares about Immune to influence vs Undead psychosis anyways? Run up with a belle or somesuch and cast the psychosis on her instead and bounce it off on one or two of those pesky guilders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osoi Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 The Onryo brings more than just Mark of Jigoku to the table. Her melee strikes are decent at Cb5 and they ignore armour in adddition to being able to target Wp or Df. Plus if you bring along a Hanged she can give it Immediate revenge as well so it cuts down 'safe' options to shoot at. She is just another tool in his arsenal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Alleycat Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 The important thing is to catch perdita when she is low on cards,since you should be able to easily outactivate her due to more cheaper models. then you use the hanged "1/2 wounds and no heals" It takes a bit of prep,but worst comes to worse,name a ability a model of yours can use twice in a turn to almost guarentee perdita burns a soulstone each time? And if it does work,you can absolutely guarentee that she will burn soulstones to prevent losing half her wounds and being unable to heal. Two Onyro,10 points,and you can pretty easily make her burn 4 soulstones in a single turn,and thats if she doesnt do anything else with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Jack Daw helps make the Copycat Killer more viable if you want to play with the cute little guy. When they can't cheat their defensive flip you have a much better shot of hitting and doing some serious hurting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted August 11, 2011 Report Share Posted August 11, 2011 Who cares about Immune to influence vs Undead psychosis anyways? Run up with a belle or somesuch and cast the psychosis on her instead and bounce it off on one or two of those pesky guilders. Anything affected by the spell gets the resist, and would therefore be immune. The extra targets in Undead Psychosis doesn't get around this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Well I took the Hanged/Grave Spirit combo last night with Seamus. 1 Ronin and Viktoria basically killed them all and 1 Belle. Undead psychosis on 1 Vik? Bring in the other one? Hand cannon shot on the Ronin? Oh you have slow to die? <sigh> Magic weapon on the Vik? Why not? Even with the -2 bubble up the Ronin still passed Terror checks from the Hanged and Seamus without breaking a sweat. Did all the tricks and they all really didn't matter. I've had similar "luck" with this combo before. Consider them shelved for the time being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thescale Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Well, yeah, the Viks have a habit of dismantling any semblance of a plan you have. The only time mine have really run into trouble is when a lawyer made one unfriendly with Prosecute and she got Austringer spammed to death Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Oh it was fun- no doubt. He must have always had a crappy hand because there was some HOT flipping going on. I had the Gunslinger card in my hand and put it back before the game started. Won't make that mistake again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 Well I took the Hanged/Grave Spirit combo last night with Seamus. 1 Ronin and Viktoria basically killed them all and 1 Belle. Undead psychosis on 1 Vik? Bring in the other one? Hand cannon shot on the Ronin? Oh you have slow to die? <sigh> Magic weapon on the Vik? Why not? Even with the -2 bubble up the Ronin still passed Terror checks from the Hanged and Seamus without breaking a sweat. Did all the tricks and they all really didn't matter. I've had similar "luck" with this combo before. Consider them shelved for the time being. Some of this just played to a core weakness in the models. Some of it just seems like bad luck. I do think there are a few things you could have done: - Inside Trail of Fear, the Ronin needed a 9+ to survive the Seamus' Terrifying, and a 10+ on the Hanged. That's not nothing, and it's way above "not breaking a sweat". - You've got a solid +2 advantage to Lure the Viks. If you're only getting one with Undead Psychosis, try and use a Belle to Lure them together before popping it. You can also use Lure to keep them close together, which should help minimize their movement flipping options - Keep your Hanged away from the Viks It sounds like a rough game, and the standard Viks crew probably puts more magical weapons on the field than any other out there. But I don't see that it was a matchup that should be expected to go as badly as it did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted August 12, 2011 Report Share Posted August 12, 2011 It sounds like a rough game, and the standard Viks crew probably puts more magical weapons on the field than any other out there. But I don't see that it was a matchup that should be expected to go as badly as it did. Oh it was fun because it was the first time for the other guy playing the crew and he was shocked at how well they did. And yeah- the magical weapons didn't help. Seriously though- his deck was HOT. We were doing distroy the evidence and luring him forward basically helped him out more than messed him up. Plus no ranged at all meant him advancing with no damage at all on the way in. Even did 2 "drain your hand" strikes with Seamus and that didn't phase them ether. Bad luck for sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Alleycat Posted August 13, 2011 Report Share Posted August 13, 2011 Dont rely on lack of magic weapons either. It will go badly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tspot Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Anything affected by the spell gets the resist, and would therefore be immune. The extra targets in Undead Psychosis doesn't get around this. Is this true? My whole club plays that bounced spells just auto hit the nearest targets since you do not need to flip cards and duel to hit them. And immune to influence says "Ignore effects that use wp WHEN defending in a duel" Since the immune to influence model is not defending then it doesn't get the ignore. Or am I wrong? Cheers, T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Anything affected by the spell gets the resist, and would therefore be immune. The extra targets in Undead Psychosis doesn't get around this. What extra targets? The other models aren't targeted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Calmdown Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 What extra targets? The other models aren't targeted. Of course they are. It specifically says "and one extra target per crow in the casting total". The wording does make some people think that there is no resist duel for the extra models, and the timing is definitely a bit weird (pick a target > cast > A WILD TARGET APPEARS!) but I dont think its intended to bypass resist duels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Of course they are. It specifically says "and one extra target per crow in the casting total". The wording does make some people think that there is no resist duel for the extra models, and the timing is definitely a bit weird (pick a target > cast > A WILD TARGET APPEARS!) but I dont think its intended to bypass resist duels. No it doesn't. The exact v2 wording is "Target model and one additional model per :crows in the casting total within 3” of the target may not end a move within 3” of an Undead model." Nowhere in the wording of the spell does it indicate that you have to target the additional models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buhallin Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Sketch cleared this up over in the rules forum, but just for completeness: If a Rst stat is listed for a Spell when it is successfully cast any model that could be affected by it must win a Resist Duel ... by exceeding the casting total or suffer the spells effects. Emphasis mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wulfen Posted September 6, 2011 Report Share Posted September 6, 2011 Not to derail this thread any further, but bleh, my whole argument here is posters kept calling the other models 'targets' or 'targeted', which in fact, they are not. Targets require LoS, this spell does not, I just wanted to avoid more confusion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.