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Nix's Trip to the Masters - Gencon 2011 Master of Malifaux

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Fetid, to add to your comment, I'm pretty sure the Vikki's won the first GenCon tourney, so they have been a strong choice all along.

Well the first Gencon tournament in 2009 was won by Neverborn. A Zoriada list. I believe 2nd was Guild and third might have been Arcanists(Ramos).

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Well the first Gencon tournament in 2009 was won by Neverborn. A Zoriada list. I believe 2nd was Guild and third might have been Arcanists(Ramos).

I could've sworn the Vikki's won it, are you sure?

Not that it matters, it's possible my memory is shot.

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Right, I forgot that the main deal with Zoraida is that she obeys Nekima every game and has Nekima beat down the Lilitu and generally cause other havoc on top of causing the other problems.

From the battle report, your crew was a fairly well balanced crew. That isn't really the case for the chain-lure list (I'm making an effort to stop calling it FILTH, as I find that to be sort of superlative.) Nekima is a lynch-pin model that makes the whole thing run, and without her it goes back to being a basic Neverborn list which does have some strong pieces, but is not terribly well balanced and has just lost 13 points and the ability to easily grow the tots. The game is far from over at that point, as Pandora is still very much on the board and capable of causing havoc, but it is now significantly more winnable. I don't think you need to necessarily go up and take Nekima out first turn, and I get the impression that Bill had to stretch to make that happen, but the Dreamer crew's minions are probably all going to be out of sight and thus free from being lured until the threat has been dealt with.

Normally, yes everything would be buried. For some reason Bill chose to deploy all of his nightmares instead of having them buried though. Not quite sure why. Failing to bury them at the end of the dreamer's activation is what gave me the opening to take down Copelius.

Out of curiosity, why did you choose to deploy them Bill?

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Please forgive me if I missed it, but I was curious Nix. I had heard you went from the top two tables (so assumption top four standings) to ninth overall. Was this because the top ten was that close, or does the Gaining Ground rules just allow that big of a jump where the final results aren't "pre-known" like other systems where the first round pretty much sets up the top tables.

It was a Domination victory condition. So scoring went like so: 3 Tournament Points for a win, 1 TP for a tie, and 0 for a loss. Going into round 4, three of us were undefeated with 9 points and Bill had that tie from round 1 so he was at 7. Everyone else was at six or lower. Since Bill lost round 4 he stayed at 7 points, while some people who won round 4 went from 6 to 9 points. After victories the difference in victory points was used to break ties. That is why, even though I went undefeated, I still took second place as first place had much bigger difference in his victory points than I did.

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BTW Nix, did you get all the stuff you bought at the booth all in order? I was the guy behind you on Thursday morning, thankfully only buying the book and about four models. :)

According to his podcast no. He and Dixon had to go back and get some stuff they missed.

You guys are way to nice as Ninja Shoppers. If it were me I would have been like "1 book and 1 model per person, you can order the rest online". But then again I am kinda mean :)

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That is why, even though I went undefeated, I still took second place as first place had much bigger difference in his victory points than I did.

I am really happy with that scoring system because you can end up with a pretty definitive winner after 4 rounds. Which is nice. Any more rounds and you are asking people to invest a lot of time in one tourney and you just end up with more drops and more cranky people.

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Yeah, I agree. I went undefeated, but I am still content with 2nd because they guy who took first maintained a big victory point difference in all of his games. He definitely earned first.

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Well I guess I can feel good saying that the last local tourney we had in Augusta the only guy I lost to was the one who won the Master's Tourney. Kudos me.

He is a great person to play against . . . and after our close match with Hamelin/Lady J he thrashed me pretty hard in the ATL when it was Zoraida/Criid.

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@pgbsamurai - Neverborn has some of the best counters to the FILTH list. Dreamer is actually pretty effective in taking down Nekima. My first turn showing not-withstanding, bringing in a LCB plus Lelu is a sure fire way to drop Nekima early. Zorry also works as a good counter, as she can get LOS to Nekima and make the poor girl smash her own crew a part with Obey. Even Lilith is fairly good, with a well placed Transposition/Mature onslaught. It is one of the reasons I brought Chompy back out vs NB in the tournament.

On why I didn't keep everything buried, that was an error on my side. At the start I approached things from a different mind-set. I figured I would have a card or two left in hand after throwing Chompy down field after Nekima, but had failed so many casts/irresistible that I ended up with no hand left. With that said, I had kept the third daydream back with the intention of burying everyone. My plan for the rest of the crew was to Defensive stance everyone then bury them. At the point I got to the bury step, I cannot remember if I tried and failed or if I just decided not to try based on the bad flips. I want to say I tried and failed to bury everyone, but I really cannot remember. After that point I was not expecting Coppelius to go down so quickly. I knew Lelu could put damage on him, but with an eyeball sitting on his card I figured I would be able to heal and bury him after putting some damage on Lilitu.

@Wookie - pgbsamurai hit it on the head. I dropped due to TP, not so much on VP. I will be interested to see where my VP landed me overall. A lot of final standing is based on the type of system your playing under (Domination/Accumulation/Disparity).

@Wulfen - Dixon and I did end up coming back for a second trip, with twice as much Terraclips and a bit less on the model front. The worst part is, we still missed a couple models and came back on Friday to pick up 4 more models. I am not sure if its bad or good (depends on if you speak to me or my wife), but half the purchases was actually for myself, with the other half for Ninja Shopping. I did end up buying enough that apparently my name was drawn twice during the Raffles. Unfortunately, I was sleeping Sunday morning so was a bit late and missed the raffle.

@Nilus - so you know the Northern VA crew is a bit, well, sick.... The Ninja shopping was for stuff my local crew needed "Immediately". They still ordered a fair amount of stuff online as well.

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I know im way late on this but im assuming a pandora filth list took top spot?

Nope. I only played the FILTH list in 2 of the 4 games, bringing Dreamer/LCB out for the other 2.

The discussion was mostly around how the FILTH list performed in the 2 games I took it. Well, that and an overall chat about the bat-reps.

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Keep these coming.

I like to see that a "broken!" crew(aka the Dreamer) fought to a tie with a "Crap!" crew(aka Gremlins). Helps to show people that not everything they read on these forums may be 100% true everywhere.

And all it took was two massive play mistakes? :)

As far as Lillitu/Nekima goes, I honestly don't think there's anything wrong with the combo per se. The problem is with Lillitu herself, her speed, mastery, utility abilities (summoning and healing), 4" melee range, and double taking Lure is a hell of a lot for a 7 point model. Even in lists without Nekima (who I think is a perfectly fair model for the most part), Lillitu is dominant on the battlefield because Lure is the longest range ability in the game.

But then, there are plenty of models like this in Malifaux, all we can hope is that book 3 evens out the brokeness a little bit more :)

Edited by Calmdown

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I wonder ...

What if the perceived imbalances between factions and crews have less to do with the models themselves and more to do with the setup phase of the game?

There are dozens of variables to discuss, too many for me to pick through, but I do want to pose the question: What if you were forced to declare your Master prior to hiring crews? What if you: Declare factions, decide the size of the encounter, view the terrain, flip for deployment type, FLIP TO DECLARE MASTER, hire, reveal crews, choose schemes?

I know, personally, when I'm facing Neverborn and Outcasts, I feel like my crew selection is like a game of craps. Some of their leaders require a very specific crew to deal with, but there is simply no way to know for sure who will hit the table beyond an educated guess.

How would this impact the proceedings? Would Dreamer be as scary if you could hire to counter? Would Neverborn be just as scary if, instead of being faced with the Russian roulette of Lilith, Dreamer, Pandy, Z and Collodi, suddenly you knew which leader you were about to face? Same queston for Outcasts. Would this cuddle Outcasts too much, removing their single greatest strength as a faction? Would this alter the game for the worse on a fundamental level?

Just curious ...

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I think this would be a bad thing. In the classic Guild vs. Ressers decision, knowing that the guild is playing Lady J, I know the run Kirai, but if the guild player brings Hoffman, I'll bring Mcmourning. I think it gives too much of an advantage, personally.

However, its good to start thinking like this. Keep it up.

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Well I guess I can feel good saying that the last local tourney we had in Augusta the only guy I lost to was the one who won the Master's Tourney. Kudos me.

He is a great person to play against . . . and after our close match with Hamelin/Lady J he thrashed me pretty hard in the ATL when it was Zoraida/Criid.

Liar! I beat you too!

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I think this would be a bad thing. In the classic Guild vs. Ressers decision, knowing that the guild is playing Lady J, I know the run Kirai, but if the guild player brings Hoffman, I'll bring Mcmourning. I think it gives too much of an advantage, personally.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly. Just spit ballin' ...

Maybe some kind of built-in, pre-game sideboard ...? Build a crew + three additional models. Both sides reveal their crew. Flip for highest, winner chooses: One side has the option to swap in models from the sideboard, then declare soulstone pool. Other side has the same option.

I dunno. Hmm.

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From my rather limited experience of the game, the main complaint I feel people have in regard to the "Neverborn being the best" is that the playstyle of the Neverborn is to counter-act the tactics of their enemy and disrupt their plans. Lilith creates terrain blocking LoS, change and shooting lanes, and then messes the enemy up by switching models around to divide and conquer. Pandora hits you in the head with mind-crushes that few models can deal with. Zorida turns your own men against themselves via voodoo doll. Its a very big "control game" for the Neverborn and its effective - especially when non-Neverborn players focus on a bit more of a "Straight Forward" approach. Its like all-out warfare VS gurilla-tactics. Its frustrating and annoying, which is why there may be some predjudice.

I'm not saying the Neverborn are overpowered. I'm suggesting that players may simply be saying that because they don't know how to deal with their unconventional tactics because it doesn't meet the same "rules of traditional warfare". Its a small history lesson in itself. Indeed, to beat the Neverborn you need to be able to change your tactics to meet their disruptive methods.

Personally I think every game will have these effects. Heck - 40k continues to have people wine "Space Marines are Overpowered due to being able to shoot better and have awesome armor" to be countered with "But they cost sooo much!". Its a futile argument. Better to learn to deal with the strategies of how the models play then argue on the models themselves.

Just my food for thought on this.

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I know its all broken and yea by the books the dreamer should wreck somer, but when your actualy playing that $$$$$$$$ goes out the window, because i forget to cast a gremlins luck sometimes, and sometimes my opponent will forget i catsed it and have to discard his whole hand...or whatever so i guess you just cant get to high before a scrap lol

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