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Puppet Masters Available Separately?


Regnak

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Please no random packs! Random packs absolutely suck, its why a lot of people didn't buy into Monsterpocalypse (which is actually a decent game). Even the semi random 2 full faction battle boxes are a turn off (still waiting for my Martian Menace but afraid of buying another set and getting yet another Shadow Sun Syndicate instead).

And @ ThePandaDirector: Using Terraclips for Puppet Wars is actually "official". Look on page 18 of the Pattern Book.

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Please no random packs! Random packs absolutely suck, its why a lot of people didn't buy into Monsterpocalypse (which is actually a decent game). Even the semi random 2 full faction battle boxes are a turn off (still waiting for my Martian Menace but afraid of buying another set and getting yet another Shadow Sun Syndicate instead).

Imagine you have the game and all the expansions. You walk into the FLGS with $4-5 in your pocket. Wouldn't it be fun to buy a single, random puppet? Just to see what you'd get?

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I like the current scheme as 4 bucks a puppet is nice. I think a good fix might be to package lady j Seamus and starter game side kicks as a multiplayer style expansion. Personally I got the starter game and look at it similar to ratty but one thing reading these forums tells me is enough people want it and it's feasible wyrd tends to hook folks up. Although as a former heroclix player I gotta add to the no random boosters please sentiment. I don't want to have to go back to rehab lol :). My hope is a Teddy set later on as he's my favorite sculpt

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To all the people complaining about how PW is packaged do you go to the store looking for to buy just the blue cards from the Uno deck? Do you try to buy only the spades from a deck of cards? Do you try to buy only the submarines from Battleship? Because that is basically what you are asking them to do.

As for all the people crying about not getting Teddy I have 4 of them, $50 per Teddy.

Edited by Backno
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To all the people complaining about how PW is packaged do you go to the store looking for to buy just the blue cards from the Uno deck? Do you try to buy only the spades from a deck of cards? Do you try to buy only the submarines from Battleship? Because that is basically what you are asking them to do.

You can buy a deck of Uno cards, a deck of playing cards, and the newest version of Battleship for less than the starter box costs. If you want a "full deck" in Puppet Wars, then it becomes a major investment, and that's even if you don't factor in the dozens of Teddys you would have to have to actually play every combination in a normal-sized game (not that any sane person cares to try). So don't to compare PW to a complete game in one box. That is not what it is, it is just what you would like to think it is.

I have never met anyone who wanted to buy any part of the Battleship game or Uno game separately, because there was no reason to do so. I saw half a dozen people yesterday who would like to get individual puppets, or at least more options as to their arrangement. Whether or not it is feasible due to expense or other complications is irrelevant to the fact that there are many people who want specific puppets, and that getting the puppets one wants is a relevant part of the game. Also, I don't see what your stake is in Wyrd's current marketing model, anyway. Unless you just like interjecting into relevant discussions with irrelevant, asinine comments because you need attention of some kind.

In short, your analogy fails.

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But the whole idea of the game is that it is a BOARD GAME first and foremost, miniature game second. When you buy the base game you are getting a full game that can be played as is. All the other boxes are just meant to be expansions to said game (because again board game first, miniature game second). It's the same thing for an Arkham Horror, Descent, or any other game with a bunch of expansions. You buy a base game and expansions to give you and your gaming group more options.

The reason the wife and I bought everything was because it's a fun game, with a miniature wargame feel, that is easy to teach and fast to play. With my wife and I buying everything none of our friends have to buy in and we all get to enjoy the game in some fashion. If you are trying to turn Puppet Wars into a tournament ready, build some super list that is perfectly optimized you are doing it wrong and missed the focus of the game.

Edited by Backno
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The reason the wife and I bought everything was because it's a fun game, with a miniature wargame feel, that is easy to teach and fast to play. With my wife and I buying everything none of our friends have to buy in and we all get to enjoy the game in some fashion. If you are trying to turn Puppet Wars into a tournament ready, build some super list that is perfectly optimized you are doing it wrong.

I know we are playing a lot of games where you choose Master and 2 Sidekicks and the other 6 pawns are randomly dealt, it's really good fun and you get some wierd combos coming out.

I think next time we might try adding a stage where you take it in turns to swap one of your puppets, for one of your suit in the remaining pool, till you get up to 4 Sidekicks or Pawns of your suit. As I did find last game that having too few models of your suit could leave you with nothing to do too often.

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I know we are playing a lot of games where you choose Master and 2 Sidekicks and the other 6 pawns are randomly dealt, it's really good fun and you get some wierd combos coming out.

I think next time we might try adding a stage where you take it in turns to swap one of your puppets, for one of your suit in the remaining pool, till you get up to 4 Sidekicks or Pawns of your suit. As I did find last game that having too few models of your suit could leave you with nothing to do too often.

We do something like this in Dominion. We start with 10 random stacks. After the game is over each player gets to pick 1 stack and swap it with anything else or we vote and switch just one or 2 out. Even switching out 2 or 3 decks can make the game play 100% different.

And one last thing about offering of singles or sets. Does Wizards of the Coast offer singles or play sets for Magic, because there sure as hell is a demand for it. They don't because they will just waste time, energy, and money that could be better used towards producing new sets/cards/etc. If the demand is there someone will start buying a bunch of PWs boxes, breaking them down, and selling the minis off that way. Wyrd would just lose money on something like that so why bother?

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Usually my girlfriend and I draft puppets and play more boardgame style as well. It is kinda interesting due to it's hybrid board/mini perspective that the different viewpoints that arise in discussions like this. I tend to see this being more of a diversion from "competitive " mini games but I have the boardgame view.

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I really wish that every puppet was unique, even the minions, which would actually make it analogous to a board game with expansions in the proper sense. When a game makes an expansion, generally you only need to buy that expansion once to enjoy all of its benefits. If they couldn't market the game to be more flexible, then the boosters and expansions should have been designed to be one-time purchases, rather than 3 of each booster and you get a bunch of extras left over.

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I guess I am lucky in a sense, most of the LGS I go to have open (used) minis, as well as single minis for sale all the time. So the climate in them helps things like this. If I want to find someone to trade minis with (or sometimes a entire army) it is not that hard. Do I think 32$ a started is a bit much, no, not really but I am more of a painter and modeler. After all a "starter box" for Space marines of which you will not use all of is 90$ and a single model mounted is around 30$. I also will pay up to 30$+ for a single mini if it is a amazing sculpt (Kingdom Death), even if I can not use it in a game.

Regards,

Carl

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I really wish that every puppet was unique, even the minions, which would actually make it analogous to a board game with expansions in the proper sense. When a game makes an expansion, generally you only need to buy that expansion once to enjoy all of its benefits. If they couldn't market the game to be more flexible, then the boosters and expansions should have been designed to be one-time purchases, rather than 3 of each booster and you get a bunch of extras left over.

Not if you play living card games, like Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer Invasion or Game of Thrones. That's as much what this model is based on as the board games that have been mentioned.

I really describe this as a Living Board Game. The people I game with understand that, and like the concept. Wyrd isn't going to make everyone happy. As the secondary market grows this complaint should mellow out a bit.

Edited by Ciaran
woops
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I really describe this as a Living Board Game.

This is by far the most appropriate (and concise) explanation of Puppet Wars I've seen to date. Base game with regular (fixed) small expansions that add complexity in the form of more options - be they cards or miniatures.

The LCG or Living Card Game concept has been ramping up in the board gaming world with more and more games coming out that use this expansion strategy (Call of Cthulhu and Lord of the Rings being some of the front runners). There are those of us that appreciate random expansions (CCG or collectible card games such as Magic and L5R), and others that would like to know up front what they're buying and pick accordingly.

Releasing random miniatures would undermine a bit of the LCG-like qualities of Puppet wars, but I could see it being more useful as a marketing gimmick to bring in players that love the look of the models and don't want to buy full sets as opposed to Puppet Wars players that want to increase their armies.

I believe that part of the reason why Monsterpocalypse (collectible miniatures game) is not more popular is its underlying CCG qualities, but that's just my 2 cents.

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I believe that part of the reason why Monsterpocalypse (collectible miniatures game) is not more popular is its underlying CCG qualities, but that's just my 2 cents.

I think that MonPoc was killed by in large by it's initial randomized release format.

I work at a comic and game shop a night a week, and hang out there constantly. In fact, I'm headed there in a bit to see what sort of trouble I can get into.... Randomized games when they first come out are.... tough. If they pick up a following they do well, if not... dead in the water doesn't do enough to describe it. Living Games tend to be more popular because people can plan for the purchases with confidence, and not count on hope.

I had forgotten the new LoTR LCG! It's funny, I enjoy it, and completely allowed it to slip my mind.

I hope they move in that direction for Elder Signs, when it comes to how they do expansions for locations, etc... Could get interesting!

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Base game with regular (fixed) small expansions that add complexity in the form of more options - be they cards or miniatures.

Except that those expansions require multiple purchases of each, even at (or because of) this small stage of the game's development. Not only that, but you get waste due to the overlap of the starter box's contents across 3 other boxes.

As for randomness, there is plenty of that. It is no coincidence that the one random puppet is also the most iconic one in Malifaux, comes in 5 variants and ignores the 3 like-minion limit in PW. It is a thinly-veiled marketing ploy, plain and simple.

If a living board game is the intent, then the current marketing plan will see it become a tangled mess in which it devolves into a trading game.

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Not if you play living card games, like Call of Cthulhu, Warhammer Invasion or Game of Thrones. That's as much what this model is based on as the board games that have been mentioned.

I really describe this as a Living Board Game. The people I game with understand that, and like the concept. Wyrd isn't going to make everyone happy. As the secondary market grows this complaint should mellow out a bit.

This is precisely what I have envisioned.

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I really wish that every puppet was unique, even the minions, which would actually make it analogous to a board game with expansions in the proper sense. When a game makes an expansion, generally you only need to buy that expansion once to enjoy all of its benefits. If they couldn't market the game to be more flexible, then the boosters and expansions should have been designed to be one-time purchases, rather than 3 of each booster and you get a bunch of extras left over.

I am willing to bet that future Pawn Booster Releases for Puppet Wars will "fill out" the 3 minion limit so you dont have to buy multiples now (and have a bunch of extras left over). Patience, the game is new and response is yet to be seen. Slow and steady is a lot better with a new game line, you dont have to look far to see other companies that invested to much capital in their new game and had it fail, impacting the companies main game line. (Believe me I want my 3 Gremlins, 3 Hog Whisperers, 3 Piglets, 3 Guild Hounds, Pupet Some'r, etc, but I am willing to wait and enjoy the game as it is now).

As for randomness, there is plenty of that. It is no coincidence that the one random puppet is also the most iconic one in Malifaux, comes in 5 variants and ignores the 3 like-minion limit in PW. It is a thinly-veiled marketing ploy, plain and simple.

Until they produce a teddy pawn booster anyway...

Edited by Omenbringer
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This is precisely what I have envisioned.

That's good considering the discussions we had about it :P

Actually have a boardgamer seriously considering, even after just digging through my components (all bought today). Had I had time before dinner I would have run him through a demo, he definitely would have been hooked then!

He LOVES the business model on it too.

Then again, he's a boardgamer, and understands the necessity of keeping the SKU count down, and prefers to not have a collectible miniatures game a la War at Sea, HeroClix, etc...

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