Rathnard's Marcus Diary

[Malexin]

So far through two games with Marcus he's playing quite like I'd imagined him playing and that makes playing him quite enjoyable. I won both of my games on strength of victory points thanks to the amount of movement available to Marcus. The schemes I won were claim jump and deliver a message.

I should get 2-3 more games in this weekend and I'll take good notes so I can post detailed reports.

Edited April 13, 2011 by Malexin

[micahwc]

I lost my first game with Marcus horribly. I was playing the Vics, and I would like to blame my poor playing on using Marcus, but I know better. I positioned Myranda, a waldgeist, and a sillurid to close to each other and the Vic player had 4 masks in his hand. After Victoria blended her way through half my models in 1 activation, the game was over on turn 2. We played it out all the way though, turn by painful turn. Final score 8 to 0.

Highlight of the game was hitting Von Schill with a 0 action charge and casting Alpha on him before he got to activate. Unfortunately Von Schill missed every attack against the Vics due to poor card flipping. Alpha was cool, but ultimately I think just attacking a couple of times would have been better.

[Blacktao]

yeah I know what you are talking about

my brother has rasputina so I don't do much against rasputina so I never can cast Alpha or some sh*t like that

but I still like the model and its crew

[micahwc]

Alpha, while seeming like a really cool ability, ended up being over-priced and underpowered. It used 2 0 actions and 2 general actions. I soulstoned the attack to make sure I would hit, I used a red joker on the damage, I soul stoned the spell to make sure it wouldn't be resisted, and I used a soul stone with Von Schill against the Vics I shot at. The Vics used 1 stone.

A master and a henchmen's activations, with 3 soul stones used, to do no damage to the Vics with them having only used 1 soul stone. It was a lot of effort, for very little effect. Granted, Von Schill had only 2 or 3 wounds left afterwards, but I could have killed him with two additonal attacks if I hadn't have cast alpha.

My opponent summed it up by saying that I traded Marcus' activation for Von Schills.

Edited April 13, 2011 by micahwc
Bad grammar

[Buhallin]

Alpha's effectiveness will depend on how well it goes, of course - I pulled it off against Lady J, who proceeded to slaughter the Judge. Killed his top minion and cost her her activation for the turn. Certainly a good tradeoff in that case, and swung the entire game my direction.

And it wasn't just a trade, since you cost Von Schill his activation for the turn as well. I do think you might have used him a little inappropriately in this case. If he were on your side, would you expect him to do much to the Viks in a single activation?

[MadArcanist]

So I thought of something silly, since Myranda stays herself with shapechange, while gaining everything else that the beast has, thus gives you the chance to beat the rare you could technically have 3 Shikome on the board and with giving Marcus hunting partner this could be a nice end to a master (especially since it can target Wp instead of Df). I think marcus with fast and an extra to attack and damage might make a nice way to achieve contain power or slaughter with assassinate.

The only problem with that combo is that it costs 23 SS to put that into the board. So costly but in a bigger game it would probably be worth it.

[Buhallin]

Myranda wouldn't have a Prey when she shapechanged anyway, so you'd have to Shapechange during one turn, spend the next to (All) New Prey, and then start on turn 3. Very expensive in terms of AP.

You could certainly run two, but I don't really like the idea personally. That's about half your crew tied up in models that your opponent can (by hiding/running/protecting the Prey) make semi-useless. One isn't too bad, but two is getting risky.

[LoboStele]

Yeah, last time I played against Marcus, I was running the Showgirls, and he brought two Shikome. I forget his Strategy (Distract I think), but he took Kill Protege on Cassandra, and marked both his Shikome with Cassandra as their prey. I was able to completely neutralize them the whole game by keeping Cassandra way in the back. And then when I did bring her forward, I did it by using Dance Partner, so she wasn't even taking any move actions to allow the Shikome to get their free move with Stalk or whatever it's called.

But I have seen 2 Shikome run and they can be pretty nasty, especially since you can help Marcus get Fast. I think it's absolutely worth running at least 1 of them. If you've got a Strategy like Slaughter or Contain Power, then I would probably consider two of them. But if your Strategy has more to do with interacting with the board and such, then I might stick to only one.

[Buhallin]

If you've got a Strategy like Slaughter or Contain Power, then I would probably consider two of them. But if your Strategy has more to do with interacting with the board and such, then I might stick to only one.

I actually come at this from the opposite direction. If I've got a kill mission, having two heavy hitters who can only go after a single target each feels too restrictive. But even without Prey the Shikome are wickedly mobile, and tough, so great for getting to objectives.

[Mentat_Canis]

I was just reading through Marcus's card because I was looking at picking him up at some point in time and what surprises me is that Alpha can only target enemy beasts which seems very odd to me because it makes it so restrictive that I cannot reactivate friendly beasts with it. Am I reading this wrong or is this needed to keep a 2 action not overpowered?

[LoboStele]

I was just reading through Marcus's card because I was looking at picking him up at some point in time and what surprises me is that Alpha can only target enemy beasts which seems very odd to me because it makes it so restrictive that I cannot reactivate friendly beasts with it. Am I reading this wrong or is this needed to keep a 2 action not overpowered?

I've often thought the same thing, especially in light of the fact that Hoffman's Override Edict can work on any Construct, friendly or otherwise.

[MadArcanist]

Well all things considered it can target masters and with, for example a wild heart taking the 0 charge and if possible hitting a master, turning them into a beast, you can alpha them and if they are a melee hitter like lilith, you could completely crush one of your opponents models and get lilith away from marcus for any repercussions

[Buhallin]

I think of it as a fluff thing, personally.

Marcus can't use Alpha on any beasts in his pack because he already IS the alpha. They already do exactly what he says. Alpha is him exerting his influence against another beast which isn't part of his pack.

[micahwc]

Fluff wise it makes sense that he can't do it to his own beasts, but gameplay wise it would be really cool.

I am limited to only one experience of using alpha, but I feel that it was really just not worth it overall. I can see where it would have its uses (moving an enemy off of an objective on turn 6), but for the AP cost I think there are better choices most of the time.

Alpha seems to be a tool, not a tactic. I keep it it in mind in case I need it, but I don't expect to use it for every situation.

As an aside, I feel that making it a 1 action would probably be overpowerd. I think introducing more ways to turn enemies into beasts is probably the best way to balance it.

Edited April 15, 2011 by micahwc
aside

[Blacktao]

Fluff wise it makes sense that he can't do it to his own beasts, but gameplay wise it would be really cool.

I am limited to only one experience of using alpha, but I feel that it was really just not worth it overall. I can see where it would have its uses (moving an enemy off of an objective on turn 6), but for the AP cost I think there are better choices most of the time.

Alpha seems to be a tool, not a tactic. I keep it it in mind in case I need it, but I don't expect to use it for every situation.

As an aside, I feel that making it a 1 action would probably be overpowerd. I think introducing more ways to turn enemies into beasts is probably the best way to balance it.

But if you don't use alpha, what is your tactic of winning a game?

cause I don't know how to win a game without trying to use alpha.... or is it just me....

[Koali]

in mos of the Games with marcus i didn´t use alpha...

this 2 Pint action PLUS feral... (often times)... is just to expensive...

I use Marcus as a fast Object grabber oder melee Monster for Run & Hide...

[FearLord]

I've often thought the same thing, especially in light of the fact that Hoffman's Override Edict can work on any Construct, friendly or otherwise.

In practice though, it seems like Hoffman can't actually cast Override Edict on most enemies though, since quite a few Constructs are Immune to Influence...

[brdparker]

But if you don't use alpha, what is your tactic of winning a game?

My tactic? Howl + ANYTHING that casts against WP (my personal favorite is Hamelin the Vanilla's Piper's Lure after enferalling and companioning him). I downed both Viks and a Bishop in the last activation of a turn and the first activation of the next that way. And just wait until them raptors come into play!

Fluff wise it makes sense that he can't do it to his own beasts, but gameplay wise it would be really cool.

If I really get into a position where I really want to alpha one of my own char's, I use the Lawyer's Cross Examination (if I have a 7+ crow). That makes them "unfriendly" for the sake of targeting, and you are free to alpha them. And again, life will be easier once the raptors can come into play (imagine a Hamelin or Rogue Necromancy that can activate twice a turn!)

Edited April 27, 2011 by brdparker

[micahwc]

If I really get into a position where I really want to alpha one of my own char's, I use the Lawyer's Cross Examination (if I have a 7+ crow). That makes them "unfriendly" for the sake of targeting, and you are free to alpha them. And again, life will be easier once the raptors can come into play (imagine a Hamelin or Rogue Necromancy that can activate twice a turn!)

I just got a lawyer and will be doing this next time I play with Markus. Good looking out on that one.

[Koali]

(imagine a Hamelin or Rogue Necromancy that can activate twice a turn!)

In case of the Necromancy that would not work...

The Lawyer does not fit into ONE List with the Necromancy.

You are only allowed to use ONE Kind of Special Forces.

The Necromancy is Horror, The Lawyer is Elite Division.

So they would never be together in one List in a Scrapgame.

[Rathnard]

So last weekend I Finally managed to get three games in with Marcus! Three wins but the result doesn't really count - I was helping to teach new players in the first and last games, while the second was intentionally quick because he needed to go home early.

You'll probably notice that I didn't use any Silurid in my games. I deliberately chose not to use them because I already know they're excellent with Marcus. Thus in the interests of learning the crew I'd much rather try other minions and see what can be done with them.

Game 1: Marcus v Viktorias (25SS)

Marcus

Jackalope 1

Myranda 7

Razorspine Rattler 7

Waldgeist 6

Moleman 3

5SS cache, Reconnoiter, Eye for an Eye, Kill Protege (Bishop)

Viktorias

Taelor 9?

Johan 6

Bishop 10

2SS Cache (only one scheme chosen), Destroy Evidence, First Kill

Overall:

In turn 1 everyone moved forward, with the Razorspine Charging Gun-Vik for some damage before retreating with the Lightning Quick trigger, and Marcus using Hare and Serpent (?) to Wk, (0) charge and strike Johan.

In turn 2 Marcus activated first to kill off Johan, before retreating back to the Moleman. Sword-Vik Charged the Moleman but only did 2 wounds thanks to all that armour. Elsewhere, the Razorspine, Waldgeist and Myranda got in a brawl with Gun-Vik, Taelor and Bishop. Over the next few turns, Gun-Vik was taken out by Myranda and the Waldgeist, although the Waldgeist and Razorspine were killed by Taelor and Bishop.

Sword-Vik was killed by the Marcus and his Moleman, after which Marcus charged and (eventually) killed Taelor. My opponent moved Bishop over to his second destroy evidence marker, but Marcus Alpha'd him away in the next turn. Bishop charged and killed Marcus, but died to a newly transformed Myranda/Cerebrus in the final turn.

----------------------------

Game 2: Marcus vs Lady Justice (25SS)

Marcus

Jackalope 1

Razorspine Rattler 7

Waldgeist 6

Lawyer 7

8SS cache, Contain Power, Bodyguard (randomly selected)

Lady Justice

Scales of Justice 2

Judge 7

3 Death Marshalls 12

8SS cache, Slaughter, Kill Protege (Razorspine), Raid? (the guild one where you need to finish with more minions)

Overall:

For the sake of finishing the game quickly, we basically both deployed in a line and ran down the centre at each other. First turn was uneventful, aside from Marcus doing a (0) Charge to wound a Death Marshall and wk (with hare) back to safety.

In the second turn the Lawyer used Furious Cast to give Hard to wound 2 to my three other crew members, which made it much harder for my opponent to deal too much damage to them. The Razorspine got shot up after not doing much damage and the Waldgeist held out against a Death Marshall and Judge until Lady Justice charged in. Marcus did another (0) charge to kill a Death Marshall and retreat back to safety.

The third turn began with the Waldgeist dieing to Judge and Lady Justice Charging the Lawyer sitting behind Marcus and killing it in short order (although the Lawyer almost managed to make her run away with the prosecute spell on Slow to Die). Marcus then Alpha'd Lady Justice to charge right back and kill the wounded Judge and Death Marshall.

For the next two turns Lady Justice and Marcus duked it out in HTH, with Marcus just coming out on top thanks to a successful initative flip and a timely Stare Down to prevent LJ cheating with what turned out to be an incredible hand. With Marcus now facing off against a wounded Death Marshall trying to run away, the game was called.

----------------

Game 3 Marcus vs Lady Justice (15SS)

Marcus

Jackalope 1

Waldgeist 6

Ronin 6

6SS Cache

Lady Justice

Judge 7

Death Marshall 4

Death Marshall 4

4SS Cache

Overall:

Marcus took out two Death Marshalls in 2 turns by using the old (0) Charge, 8" Wk to safety trick. The rest engaged and killed my Waldgeist, before Judge was taken out by a Ronin who in turn was killed by Lady Justice. Lady Justice, already wounded by the Ronin, was finished off by Marcus.

----------------

So as per my original post I'd decided not to try and abose Alpha to win games. For the most part I kept to my promise, with the exception of an Alpha on Bishop and Lady Justice. Casting Alpha on Lady Justice was a risky move but it paid off, allowing me to kill two enemy minions and effectively turn the game around. This time I used Feral and when it worked, Stare down to prevent Lady Justice cheating the Alpha resist. Some poor luck with the flips made the LJ's final resist total alot closer than I was expecting but even so, Stare Down went a long way in helping Marcus successfully cast Alpha on a model with Use Soulstone. Without that flip from Stare Down, I would definitely avoid trying Alpha on a model that can burn a soulstone for the resist flip. If Feral didn't work I probably would have resorted to Wild Heart for Offense and just beating Lady Justice down (LJ had already activated), or even trying to disengage and make a run for the other enemy minions.

So at least in regards to Alpha, I still think it's a really powerful tool for Marcus and in the right circumstances, will turn the game around for you. If you can manage a (0) Stare Down before casting Alpha then the chances of your target resisting the spell drop considerably, even with those with Use Soulstone. If you're going to cast Alpha then be prepared to cheat a high :masks and burn a soulstone, but always make sure you have a backup plan for if Marcus fails to beast out the target.

So Alpha aside, my main approach to using Marcus this past weekend is what I've come to call the Marcus Boomerang. Basically, it's using (0) Wild Heart for Hare (8" Wk), Serpent (discard for a (0) Cg), and hopefully Bear (+2 Dg), and then (0) Cg your target before retreating with an 8" Wk to pull back to safety, preferably next to a sacrificial beast. The last (1) action can be used for another Wk or Strike, depending on the situation.

The main negative is that if the target has a melee range >1" or he doesn't kill the target, Marcus may suffer a disengaging strike and be forced to sit in combat. This is where the rest of your crew would have to come in, usually by softening up the target with shooting (Trapper) or melee (Silurid), but also by simply tying up other minions that may try to hit Marcus when he's sitting in melee. For that reason I'd like to try it out some more, but I think it's got alot of potential as an option for Marcus.

The Jackalope proved to be an annoyance, getting in the way of enemy model's charge lanes, forcing models to cheat their Df flips when trying to disengage from the Jackalope and respawning whenever Marcus or my opponent killed another beast. It even managed to cast primal flame on the Moleman during a game so basically, it did it's job and was well worth it's 1SS cost.

I feel that the Moleman proved his worth in his game. Despite it's low movement, it proved to be excellent at providing an anti-charge/anti-ranged bodyguard for Marcus to fall back to, and it easily absorbed the hits Viktoria dealt it thanks to it's armour. It even managed to deal some damage to Viktoria with it's very decent Claw strike, enabling Marcus to finish her off.

The Wk is pretty low, but with Marcus Boomeranging back to the Moleman anyway his slow movement wasn't

at all an issue.

Myranda was useless for almost the entire game I used her. She was sub-par in melee and never managed to get the cards to cast anything until turn 5. She survived the game because after taking a few hits, my opponent quickly learnt that she wasn't achieving anything and just ignored her. In the 5th Turn, I got the cards I needed to furious cast two Primal Flames and Transform into a Sabretooth. It was probably a waste of cards, but as a Sabretooth it was her that dealt the killing blow to Bishop, ironically turning a probable draw into a win for her crew. So while Myranda technically won the game for me, in the capacity I tried to used her (primal flame caster and trying to transform her) she's still not worth the SS. I think another approach

is definitely needed to get any use out of Myranda.

The Razorspine did some damage and threatened models with it's poisonous attacks, but tended to die quickly once some semi-decent models turned their attention to it. Despite this, there was a moment of amazingness when the Razorspine charged Viktoria, then triggered lightning quick and a wk to push 4" away and back into safety. This is probably the best way to play it - hitting models hard with the serpent strike, and either killing it outright with poison and another attack (if it's safe), using Defensive Stance before the Serpent Strike if it isn't going to take too many return attacks, and/or pulling back with lighting quick and a Wk to minimise any retaliation.

Serpent Strike is a great action, but the fact that it has to be the closest model means you need to plan ahead to get the best use out of it. You can still make a 12" (2) charge on the model you want to target, but in any case it's probably both safer and more effective as a flanking minion.

I'm still really hoping to try the Razorspine with a Shikome, since Hunting Partner will let it serpent strike it's prey regardless of whether it's the closest model, and Spiny Growths will get it past the melee range of any nearby models.

In all three games there were no forests for the Waldgeist to hide in. With Armour 2 he's still one of the tougher minions available to Marcus although his melee, while nice, suffers a little from a lack of melee expert. If he's got some woods to play with he's amazing, but without such terrain (as per the last three games) I don't feel as though he's a complete waste of SS. So as far as his vaue without any woods on the board, I think he's 'okay' and although there are probably more efficient options for a pure melee machine, he's hardly going to be a dead weight in a game without woods.

In the the third game the Waldgeist was effectively Marcus' bodyguard for the match, keeping Marcus from getting charged and doing some damage himself. His resiliance certainly makes him a viable alternative to the Moleman but while the Waldgeist he's more capable of keeping up with Marcus, with the way I was using Marcus it really wasn't much of an advantage.

Ronin - Yeah, she was a bit of an odd addition but I wanted to try her out in a game. She was handy for dancing around models already engaged in combat, charging in and then using the mask trigger to get back out of melee range. Hard to Kill means she'll take at least 2 hits to kill although unless you bump up her resiliance with defense and defensive stance, she's not all that tough. The mobility and hit & run kind of fits with Marcus' playstyle, although as a non-beast melee minion I'm not sure if she's a good enough option. She was a random "lets try it" inclusion, although now I'm tempted to give her some more game time to see exactly how she does in a Marcus crew.

In the game I used him, the Lawyer effectively did just one thing (made my crew Hard to Wound 2 for a turn) before dieing, but I can certainly see the potential of using him with Marcus. Defense gives his crew some much needed and highly valued resiliance and I can see Cross Examination and Censure being great offensive and disruptive spells respectively. With no casting expert and his very low Wk, I imagine the Lawyer would most often be used in a defensive fashion. As I found out his game, the Lawyer is very easy to kill, even with Red Tape, so you need to make sure you keep him nice and safe in the back lines.

At this point, one thing I'm sure about is that you can't take Silurid with a Lawyer. Both the Lawyer and the Silurid want your 7+ cards for their spell/s so you'll only have the cards to make either the Silurid or the Lawyer to be truely useful in a given turn.

Anyway, for future games I'm pretty keen on trying the Lawyer some more, as well as a few of the new book 2 minions I've just recieved (Shikome, Trapper) or are hoping to get (Guild Hound). I'm going to keep trying Myranda out, although next time it will probaby need to be in conjunction with a Malifaux Raptor and Convict Gunslinger (for Suppressive Fire). In terms of overall playstyle I know I can play a very mobile game with Silurid and the likes of Shikome, but I'm also keen on figuring the value of a more defensive playstyle, using the Marcus Boomerang in conjunction with the likes of the Lawyer and Molemen.

[Mentat_Canis]

I have played twice with my Marcus since picking him up and have been very happy with him I am 1-1 but could easily be 2-0.

First game was vs Raspy, I had Razorspine, Shikome, Cerberus, moleman, and the Jackolpe. Shikome and Razorspine with hunting partner attacked a golem turn 2 because lightning strike loves hunting partner but he had 2 tomes in his hand so didn't kill the golem then raspy nuked that area and took out both. I ended up alphaing raspy turn 3 but didn't get cards I needed for her to kill everyone on her side of the table and she finished me off when I got some bad cards. It was a good game.

2nd Game was vs. Sonnia in this game I dropped the razorspine for a moleman and I think it was 5points lower game. It was great because I got marcus and the shikome in to mess up with his lines as my tiger and molemen sabotaged and planted evidence. I like his speed and I think they work best hunting in 2 man parties with similar speed with molemen just walking up the back taking late objectives.

All in all has been fast and fun but I think he will be a sidebar master for me and not an everyday like my ladies.

[Buhallin]

I'm still really hoping to try the Razorspine with a Shikome, since Hunting Partner will let it serpent strike it's prey regardless of whether it's the closest model

What am I missing about Hunting Partner that lets it do this? If the Prey isn't the closest enemy, it would seem like Hunting Partner would prevent you from using Serpent Strike.

[Sliver Chocobo]

What am I missing about Hunting Partner that lets it do this? If the Prey isn't the closest enemy, it would seem like Hunting Partner would prevent you from using Serpent Strike.

No it must target the closet legal target which would be the prey

[Buhallin]

No it must target the closet legal target which would be the prey

Is there a ruling on this somewhere? I did some looking but couldn't find anything, and it seems like one that could have a lot of implications.