Looking at Kirai

[mythicFOX]

So I've got a podium place from The Dreamer and now it's time for me switch master again before the summer tournaments kick off. I'm looking at having a go with Malifaux premier gardening and revenge service.

:kirai

I'm a tourney gamer so power level is important to me, and I've plenty of time to practice. I've spent a bit of time reading her rules but I could use a few pointers. To help me get up to speed I'd like to know;

• What are her bad matchups?
  
• Are there any strategies she struggles to achieve?
  
• What does a typical 35ss Kirai list look like?
  

Any help much appreciated.

[mythicFOX]

No one got an opinion?

Please... :puppy:

[Ratty]

1, She doesn't have any really bad matchups, you need to change style to counter certain masters and she will have as much trouble with Pandora as the next person. If there is anything she has issues with it's hyper mobile models that can attack lots of models. the Viks and I guess Lilith (though I've yet to play her) will probably cause the most issues.

2. There are very few Strategies she can't complete due to her speed. There are some that are very easy though, Deliver a message for example is almost a guaranteed 4Vps.

3. I would always suggest getting the Lost Love and 5 Seishin to start with. It will normally give you activation advantage, which helps her a lot. Other than that I don't normally purchase Onryo and Gaki to begin with, I will instead fill out with utility I can't summon later in the game, Jack Daw, Datsu-ba, The Hanged and Insidious Madnesses are all a good bet to fill this roll. Something like a Dead Rider or Rogue Necromancy is also quite good but you will need a high crow early on to make them a spirit.

Something like

Kirai 35ss list

Ressurectionists Crew - 35 - Scrap

Kirai Ankoku

--

5 Cache

Lost Love [2ss]

• Seishin
  [2ss]
  
  
• Seishin
  [2ss]
  
  
• Seishin
  [2ss]
  
  
• Seishin
  [2ss]
  
  
• Seishin
  [2ss]
  
  
• Jack Daw
  [9ss]
  
  
• Insidious Madness
  [4ss]
  
  
• Shikome
  [8ss]
  
  

works well

[hippieshopper]

1, She doesn't have any really bad matchups, you need to change style to counter certain masters and she will have as much trouble with Pandora as the next person. If there is anything she has issues with it's hyper mobile models that can attack lots of models. the Viks and I guess Lilith (though I've yet to play her) will probably cause the most issues.

2. There are very few Strategies she can't complete due to her speed. There are some that are very easy though, Deliver a message for example is almost a guaranteed 4Vps.

3. I would always suggest getting the Lost Love and 5 Seishin to start with. It will normally give you activation advantage, which helps her a lot. Other than that I don't normally purchase Onryo and Gaki to begin with, I will instead fill out with utility I can't summon later in the game, Jack Daw, Datsu-ba, The Hanged and Insidious Madnesses are all a good bet to fill this roll. Something like a Dead Rider or Rogue Necromancy is also quite good but you will need a high crow early on to make them a spirit.

Something like

[url=http://malifaux.nezumi.me.uk/crew.php?vFac=1&vSS=35&vBr=0&vM1=3&vM1T=75&vMin=19,19,19,19,19,50,34,20]works well

How does that play out?

Not that I don't believe you, I just want to try it and have no idea how that would work.

[Ratty]

You hold back for a turn, build up high masks and crows in your hand. Use your seishin to scout forward. Second turn, push Jack Daw forward and put up his aura of no cheating, then try to out activate the opponent. push forward a seishin into the enemy lines. jump forward to one of the scouts in range of your target. Summon Ikiryo into combat and swirl the Shikome into the place of the Seishin. Double team the target. If your cleaver you can use Ikiryo (0) action to pull Jack Daw forward just enough so the target can't cheat but Ikiryo can. Between them there are few models in the game that can survive.

Next turn they will have an Ikiryo and Shikome in their lines causing them issues. Hopefully you will get 1st activation. But even if you don't they will have to deal with those two before they get a chance to activate so Kirai should be safe. If Ikiryo survives till later in the turn, reabsorb him and resummon to get a second activation and repeat what you did the turn before, pulling Jack Daw into position. You might well lose the Shikome but you should have made enough of a mess that you should have the advantage.

It is quite easy to get a second turn kill on most Masters if you play it right.

[Ratty]

But if necessary you can use the Seishin as scouts and then avoid the opponent and go after objectives.

Or pick on lone targets, spirit food them then summon Onryo into combat. You will get a Gaki from the kill and replace the Seishin used to create the Onryo. This works amazingly well against horde crews. Over the course of the game you will end up killing at least 2 models a turn and gaining back 2 in return. As soon as it starts rolling you can be killing a model with Ikiryo each turn and sacrificing a Seishin which should give you enough life back to start summoning 2 models a turn. I've had games where I have had 6 more models than I started with against crews like McMourning.

[hippieshopper]

What's the Insidious Madness for?

[Doctor Amos]

I'm a fan of of slipping in a nurse in case she Levi's herself half to death, although that relies on her being slower than most people like to play her.

Lilith, Rasputina, Viktoria, and Criid are bad matchups, as are some McMourning and Freikorp builds. The Resser specific schemes are tough for anyone who isn't Nicodem. Her own scheme is ::makes so-so gesture::.

Oh! And if you're going to include Lost Love, remember to use Dead Rider. That dude is tough enough normally, but as a spirit....

[Ratty]

What's the Insidious Madness for?

It one of the cheapest spirits you can get, so it keeps your activation count up. Also Jack Daw, Ikiryo and Onryo all attack against Wp. it doesn't hurt to have it in the crew. It might take a little while to get into the fray but it only multiplies how effective a lot of your crew is when it gets into battle. I think for the extra point it's a better choice than a Gaki.

[Ratty]

I'm a fan of of slipping in a nurse in case she Levi's herself half to death, although that relies on her being slower than most people like to play her.

Lilith, Rasputina, Viktoria, and Criid are bad matchups, as are some McMourning and Freikorp builds. The Resser specific schemes are tough for anyone who isn't Nicodem. Her own scheme is ::makes so-so gesture::.

Oh! And if you're going to include Lost Love, remember to use Dead Rider. That dude is tough enough normally, but as a spirit....

I've played against both Rasputina and Criid and they were two of the easiest match ups I've had. Both of them were dead by the end of turn 2. Your ability to bypass their defenses and dump combat models straight into combat with them is amazing. OK if they do manage to get AOE onto you you will have issues. But if you can keep pressure on them they will never have a chance.

[Chucklemonkey]

1, She doesn't have any really bad matchups, you need to change style to counter certain masters and she will have as much trouble with Pandora as the next person. If there is anything she has issues with it's hyper mobile models that can attack lots of models. the Viks and I guess Lilith (though I've yet to play her) will probably cause the most issues.

Although also yet to play Lilith with Kirai - I am mostly a Lilith player - I always imagined this would be a very good match up for Kirai. Certainly in terms of any attempt to kill Lilith as Kirai has so many models which can attack the willpower stat as opposed to Lilith's crazy defense - with trigger.

I am starting to delve properly into my Kirai crew now so looking forward to finding out for sure.

[Buck Dog]

I been theory-fauxing and I wonder if Marcus could be a bad match up for Kirai ? With a magic weapon and a huge threat range, it means Kirai is always under pressure and can't sit back and summon or collect cards.

[Ratty]

I been theory-fauxing and I wonder if Marcus could be a bad match up for Kirai ? With a magic weapon and a huge threat range, it means Kirai is always under pressure and can't sit back and summon or collect cards.

You don't particularly need the magic weapon to win against Kirai. The speed will be good though. However he lacks in attacks. The reason I think Lilith and the Viks will be better is that both of them can get rid of all the seishin in a turn if they are clumped around Kirai. Viks due to their :masks trigger and Lilith due to her circular attack.

[Buck Dog]

You don't particularly need the magic weapon to win against Kirai. The speed will be good though. However he lacks in attacks. The reason I think Lilith and the Viks will be better is that both of them can get rid of all the seishin in a turn if they are clumped around Kirai. Viks due to their :masks trigger and Lilith due to her circular attack.

I am not too clued up on Marcus, but if you use the right combination of Wild Heart (Serpent, Tiger ??) he can chuck out a fair few attacks. And I think the Roar / Howl Combo would be hilarious if you ever got it off.....

I would like to have another crack at Kirai with the Viks though, it has been a fun match up in the past.

[yames]

my only realy bad match up so far with kirai is a good vick player if they can get to you (granted you will do all u can to stop it from happening) 1 activation is all it takes for them to kill kirai and her seshien my games vs them so far are a win 2 good ties

[hippieshopper]

my only realy bad match up so far with kirai is a good vick player if they can get to you (granted you will do all u can to stop it from happening) 1 activation is all it takes for them to kill kirai and her seshien my games vs them so far are a win 2 good ties

I faced them and my counter was surrounding myself with Terrifying. I managed to pull out 2 shikome with the Sword Vik as my target... I flew them in there and chopped her to pieces.

Also, to Ratty...or anyone actually...if I pop the Insidious Madness' bubble of flip.....would they be at a loss when I attack them because of the Cb -> Wp duels.

I know it seems obvious to some but I have had people try to convince me of dumber things.

[Thunder_God]

It's a WP duel, so they get a minus.

[Hookers]

what marcus lacks in attacks he can make up in 3 headed tigers

[Doctor Amos]

I've played against both Rasputina and Criid and they were two of the easiest match ups I've had. Both of them were dead by the end of turn 2. Your ability to bypass their defenses and dump combat models straight into combat with them is amazing. OK if they do manage to get AOE onto you you will have issues. But if you can keep pressure on them they will never have a chance.

Well, I suppose it comes down to armies and players, too, as with all things. Neither is a matchup I'd favour with Vegas odds.

[Stryder]

Come on, Fairy-wings...you've played me often enough to know what her strengths and weaknesses are.

[micahwc]

I played a brawl with Lillith and Z against Kirai and Nicodem. I never brought Lillith up against Kirai because she was too busy sitting on an objective and defending it, but I used Sillurids and Young Nephilim (diving attack) to keep Kirai busy for most of the game.

Kirai's minions delivered a message on turn 1 and my Sillurids returned the favor on turn 2. I chain activated them all near her so my opponent had to kill all three to keep me from getting the victory points. He killed two, and I delivered a message. The last Sillurid kept her occupied long enough for a pair of young nephilim to catch up to her and keep her busy for the rest of the game.

It was a good game, but it was hard to tell how Lillith and Kirai would match up against each other because of Nikodem and Zoraida being in the mix. I ended up losing 6 to 8 because I took a gamble that the game would end on turn 6 and it didn't.

[Zephir]

Having a lot of spirits makes Kirai a bad match up for a lot of melee centric crews. Generaly Lillith doesn't do great against Kirai.

Kirai usually only has trouble with Slaughter in my experiences. She is an objective queen, and can usually grab the treasure turn 1 using her "dont blink" trigger.

at 35 I usually run

Kirai

Lost Love

4 Seishin

Dastue-Ba

2 Onryo

2 gaki

I think I get 2-3 soul stones in the Cache. I will try the Dead Rider whenever he releases since a Spirit Dead rider just sounds nasty.

[GTFriday13]

I like the idea of running the Freikorps Librarian with Kirai as well. She is expensive at 9ss, but I think she offers a lot as well. She has Arcane Reservoir, which never hurts. And with (2) Furious Casting she can throw down lots of heals, which means Kirai isn't wasting actions and SS healing herself. She can also use her [tomes] spell to give Kirai + to casting flips, decreasing the odds you'll have to cheat to turn her into a spirit or summon Ikiyro. And Block Connection is a decent defense spell if Kirai does end up in melee with Lilith or the Viks.

[Ratty]

I like the idea of running the Freikorps Librarian with Kirai as well. She is expensive at 9ss, but I think she offers a lot as well. She has Arcane Reservoir, which never hurts. And with (2) Furious Casting she can throw down lots of heals, which means Kirai isn't wasting actions and SS healing herself. She can also use her [tomes] spell to give Kirai + to casting flips, decreasing the odds you'll have to cheat to turn her into a spirit or summon Ikiyro. And Block Connection is a decent defense spell if Kirai does end up in melee with Lilith or the Viks.

The question is whether she outweighs Jack Daw for the spot. they are the same points and both have Arcane Reservoir. I think if you can make her a spirit early on with the Lost Love, she's not a bad bet. guaranteed healing is not a bad thing. However she does become much less durable without the slow to die from Von Schill.

[K.blas]

How's this sound for a 30SS list?

Kirai

Ikiryo

Lost Love +2

4x Seishin +8

Jack Daw +9

Convict Gunslinger +6

Insidious Madness +4

2+8+9+6+4=29/30

1+3=4 SS Cache.

Still trying to decide what to spend my b-day money on...I've got the convict already.

Convict is in to force a few hand discards, along with Daw. The IM's WP duels mesh nicely with Daw's and the Onryo's. I've got a bit of range, and Terrifying so...what do y'all think?

Edited March 2, 2011 by K.blas