Tactica: Hamelin the Plagued

[tadaka]

Another thing to keep in mind Vs dreamer is he has to keep 2 models close VS you. If he only keeps one model next to dreamer control it and it will no longer be friendly and you can use it to smack the dreamer.

[Necromorph]

Hey, I played against the Ortega's, granted a less experienced Ortega's player, but hey, they're braindead easy to use in most cases.

I was kicking the sh!t out of her, lol. You were right, I just used pipes and Obedience (papa loco lololololol). It basically came down to target saturation, he didn't know what to kill first. Perhaps I played a little too cautiously with Nix, though my friend watching the game who kept going "Kill the Dog!" didn't help, lol.

I actually ended up losing 8-6 because he managed to sneak into my deployment zone with Perdita and I couldn't down her with 5 rats with impetuous/ Vermin Frenzy and a Catcher on her. She was at 3wds with blight counters.....and I couldn't flip higher than a 10 with my + flips (uuuugh) and she managed to hold out till the end of the last turn, denying me Hold Out, and giving him Bodyguard.

Overall though I was impressed, though a veteran Ortega's player may have given me some more trouble. I ended the game with far more models than I started it with, and he had an almost dead Perdita and a 1 wound Santiago left on the table. So I consider it a moral victory even if bad luck saw me lose on a VP basis.

[MadArcanist]

I know this is gonna sound silly, but I haven't gotten my Hamlin and I was curious, Aren't Stolen Unique? how is it possible to spam them if that's the case? granted idk if anything was errated or not since my book was one of the first batch from gencon last year

[Sandwich]

I know this is gonna sound silly, but I haven't gotten my Hamlin and I was curious, Aren't Stolen Unique? how is it possible to spam them if that's the case? granted idk if anything was errated or not since my book was one of the first batch from gencon last year

They're just Soulless.

They're Unique / rare in the book, but on the card they're nothing but soulless.

[MadArcanist]

I was hoping for that :bigthumb: it seemed kinda silly that a model like that is Unique yet you get three of them in the Hamlin box, but love the tactica

[magicpockets]

With dreamer, am I right in thinking irresistible lure works on him to pull him out of hiding as he's only ht 1?

[Ratty]

With dreamer, am I right in thinking irresistible lure works on him to pull him out of hiding as he's only ht 1?

If you kept a Alp near him he couldn't be targeted?

[Necromorph]

Not sure how that works, Ratty. Though Irresistable Lure doesn't target a model, its just a pulse affecting all models that meet the criteria, but I'm not super familiar with how that ability works with the Dreamer.

[Elazar]

The Dreamer may ignore any effects from pulses and auras because of 'A Ghost In Malifaux'

[Ratty]

Ah yeah I assumed it was targeted. I'll have to read over some of the abilities.

[Necromorph]

Looks like we were both right, sort of, lol.

Ghost in Malifaux would probably make him immune to Irresistable Lure, but the Lure isn't a targeting spell, just a pulse.

Still, you can pulse down everything else, including Chompy, hehe (once you make them insignificant ofc).

[Sandwich]

While I'm not certain if the dreamer can ignore all effects or just damage via A Ghost in Malifaux, it's not necessarily important.

He still has a Wp of 8 and the ability to burn SS to stop you from pulling him.

More often than not, however, (1)Irresistible Lure will strip away his protective layer of models.

If you haven't yet made all things existant Insignificant, (1)Irresistible Lure will still pull in his Daydreamers, thus making the "drop and pop" tactic null and Void.

Removing the Day Dreams will then either,

A.) Open the Dreamer up for a direct assault.

B.) Force Lord Chompy Bits to play defensively, thus not bombing your master.

C.) Cause your opponent to ragequit.

Understand that in a game versus The Dreamer, Hamelin has a VERY high probability of dying, because hitting LCB with Insignificant before he's on top of you nomming away is nigh impossible unless your opponent completely fails at placement.

This is easily ignored, however.

Plant a single Stolen 10-12" behind Hamelin, well out of reach of the bomb, and when Hamelin returns, Pipes away at the bomb.

[DonB]

great tactica.

One note on the last post, why put the stolen 10-12" away? Do you mean to revive Hamyln? He only revives to a stolen 3" away.

Another question, in 50 points how many rats would you require by the end?

I'm looking at 6 soulless, 6 rats, 2 rat catchers, obedient wretch, nix and hamlyn for my order. Seems I will require more rats at the end of the game...perhaps a lot more!?

[Elazar]

great tactica.

One note on the last post, why put the stolen 10-12" away? Do you mean to revive Hamyln? He only revives to a stolen 3" away.

This has been fixed. See here

[DonB]

many thanks!

[Sandwich]

Finally got Rat Catchers, so I suppose today will be a great day to update the tactica.

And add a bunch of stuff.

[Ensiferum]

Hello !

First off, very nice read. I just got my rat catchers and obedient wretch and i'm about to go for a 40 points game and i'm sure what i read will help a bunch !

I have a few questions though.

I kept looking and looking for the answer to this one because the question seems dumb but i don't find it anywhere so i'll just ask:

Why do you say Blight Counters add 1 Dg to the Rats' damage? I don't see anywhere written that weapons placing blight counters on models deal +1 Dg. The only thing Blight counters do is work with (1) Bleeding Disease to give additional Wds to the target, but this isn't applied on any strike.

I just can't find that anywhere in the rulebook or the cards so i turn to the forums ofc

Another thing is, you keep saying that the pipes are a work-around to "Immune to Influence" but there also, from what i understand in the rulebook, it is not:

Immune to Influence states: This model is immune to Wp Duels where it is the Defender.

Pipes are an attack and the trigger to make the model insignificant is a Talent that requires a simple Wp Duel, in which the target IS the defender. Hence, the target is immune to the trigger.

Also same problem against Ryle and his "Breach Psychosis" which is even more powerful.

I read that and i was like "Damn that makes those guys really annoying to Hamelin since he HAS to kill them in order to neutralise them". And then i went through the Stolen card: they're the answer. Not only for (all)Abandon, which doesn't require any Duel, but mainly because of (1)Succumb. They remove the troublesome abilities until the end of the turn and the spell requires a Df Resist Duel, which means "ItI" and "BP" cannot prevent it.

So basically the work-around Talents that prevent Wp-based abilities from doing anything to some targets is to get the Stolen to successfully cast (1)Succumb on the target, THEN cast whatever you need during the turn. I'd say Rabies can help with this too, as well as No Humanity.

That's it I just want to know if i'm going the right way or i've just been missing stuff !

[WUWU]

Tucked away in the Rising Powers book it mentions that a when a model with a blight counter suffers wounds, it takes one additional wound.

Anytime there is a Stat --> target # duel, it's a simple duel in which there is no attacker or defender, so immune to influence doesn't come into play, regardless of what triggered that duel.

[Sandwich]

Hello !

First off, very nice read. I just got my rat catchers and obedient wretch and i'm about to go for a 40 points game and i'm sure what i read will help a bunch !

I have a few questions though.

I kept looking and looking for the answer to this one because the question seems dumb but i don't find it anywhere so i'll just ask:

Why do you say Blight Counters add 1 Dg to the Rats' damage? I don't see anywhere written that weapons placing blight counters on models deal +1 Dg. The only thing Blight counters do is work with (1) Bleeding Disease to give additional Wds to the target, but this isn't applied on any strike.

I just can't find that anywhere in the rulebook or the cards so i turn to the forums ofc

Another thing is, you keep saying that the pipes are a work-around to "Immune to Influence" but there also, from what i understand in the rulebook, it is not:

Immune to Influence states: This model is immune to Wp Duels where it is the Defender.

Pipes are an attack and the trigger to make the model insignificant is a Talent that requires a simple Wp Duel, in which the target IS the defender. Hence, the target is immune to the trigger.

Also same problem against Ryle and his "Breach Psychosis" which is even more powerful.

I read that and i was like "Damn that makes those guys really annoying to Hamelin since he HAS to kill them in order to neutralise them". And then i went through the Stolen card: they're the answer. Not only for (all)Abandon, which doesn't require any Duel, but mainly because of (1)Succumb. They remove the troublesome abilities until the end of the turn and the spell requires a Df Resist Duel, which means "ItI" and "BP" cannot prevent it.

So basically the work-around Talents that prevent Wp-based abilities from doing anything to some targets is to get the Stolen to successfully cast (1)Succumb on the target, THEN cast whatever you need during the turn. I'd say Rabies can help with this too, as well as No Humanity.

That's it I just want to know if i'm going the right way or i've just been missing stuff !

The section on Blight Counters is in the early parts of Rising Power, it's there with Burning Counters too.

It states that a model with 1 or more Blight Counter suffers 1 additional Wd whenever it suffers Dg.

Which makes the Rat's Basic melee strikes deal 2 Wd regardless of armor. (1 Dg +1 Wd)

In a simple duel there is no defender, so when Hamelin triggers Cb(:masks)Haunting Melody he is merely making that model take a simple duel (Wp->Cb Total) so Immune to Influence wouldn't take effect at all.

Ryle's Breach Psychosis is a different case because his states that he simply does not make Wp duels, whether he is the attacker or defender.

(He would be an Attacker in a Harmless Duel, or a Defender in a Stitched Together's (1)Gamble Your Life.)

When dealing with Ryle, you MUST use The Stolen's (1)Succumb to remove Breach Psychosis in order to adversly effect him with most of your crew.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Sandwich

[Necromorph]

Ooh, good thing I caught the post about Breach Psychosis, that would get ugly if I started wasting casts to make him Insig. Though because Blight Counters cause wd instead of dg, and the help of bleeding disease, I don't see Hamelin really having a problem taking Hoffman down, especially when his constructs are all bunched up and I don't have to split my force haha.

[Ensiferum]

Very nice thank you for the clarifying !

EDIT: found it in the rule manual on page 19... it's called blight TOKENS.

As for the pipes yea you're right i looked again on page 18 of the manual and it isn't said that simple duels have a defender. I guess i thought since it was triggered from an attack it'd mean the target was defending.

So i had my 40 points game today against Lady Justice and as i thought that tactica helped A LOT. Before that i didn't even understand the extent of the rat's power. They are truly fearsome.

I found out one thing though... one counter to Hamelin or more like his rats, depending on the strategies. Rats can't climb buildings. So basically what my opponent did was climb on a building, stay up there and shoot me. I was in a bad spot since my strategy was Contain Power and one of his schemes was Bodyguard.

It's only because Lady Justice was bored and killed a Rat-Catcher that she came down and allowed my rats to quickly swarm her.

Is there anything to counter the fact that Rats can't climb?

Edited April 27, 2011 by Ensiferum

[cain]

Is there anything to counter the fact that Rats can't climb?

Jup. Use buildings with stairs and ladders.

Besides, the image of Lady J. balancing on a chair in an ocean of rats has something funny. Iieekkk, mice!!!

Edited April 27, 2011 by cain

[Wodschow]

Eh...?

Why can't Rats climb?

Even if you can't reach the top of something climbable in one activation you just note the height you would've reached - as per the rules for climbing on page 35 of the manual..

[Ensiferum]

Hm well that's what happens when you settle on rules without consulting the book. Thanks for the heads up.

[Ratty]

I can climb... I'm quite good at it... I can also scurry, dance and gnaw.