[35 SS][Viktoria] done a little different

[nothingatall544]

Hey Guys

So I'm a bit new around here and still kinda new to the game as a whole, I've played a bit and come from a war game background.

I've been trying to make Viktoria work as a master but in my experiences I've run into a few problems with the "common" lists I've seen. So I've gone about trying to create a new 35 SS list that works for me.

First the basic box is too mismatched for my play style, while Johan and Taelor are good solid pieces, they are a bit slow for my taste. As is Bishop but I also think he's a bit overcosted.

Then there's the Ronin and Gunslinger list. Again I find this list far too slow, walk of 4 is just not enough for me, add in that the Ronin are a little to fragile for 5 points.

Finally there is the newer idea of running Viktoria with the Von Schill box which I like a lot more than anything else, well costed pieces that have good defense, fair offence, and a walk of 5, yes please.

That being said I feel Von Schill himself is over costed, due to not being a master, he loses use soulstone, which hurts him. On top of that I don't particularly like the specialist, and the normal Friekorps men don't scream awesome to me..

I know I want to keep ~5 SS for my pool during play, I want this list to work in 90% of scenarios, so lets start building.

If I want this to work in most scenarios I'm going to need survivability, a fair amount of models to activate, a reasonable movement speed, and some kinda of a punch in CC or shooting.

Outcasts have limited shooting, so lets aim for the CC punch.

I think I'll grab the parts of the Von Schill box I actually like, the Trapper and the Librarian.

I know some people don't like the Librarian, but he can heal Viktoria, which heals both of them, hopefully making it so I don't have to burn all of my SS pool keeping them protected.

The Trapper just is excellent long range fire power, ask any Von Schill player, they are much better than they look on paper.

So that means we have spent 13 SS and we've got 2 good CC beaters, a long range sniper, and support for the army, but what else do I want?

Something that can stay on it's own and that can really fight things like LCB, and that are not my Master.

Then I guess lets look at the huge hitters of the Outcasts, Ashes and Dust, which I can't take, and Killjoy.

Well Killjoy is not as fast as I would like, but he does get placed later, so it's not as bad as him hoofing across the board, also he is a lot more durable than the rest of the list, but he needs someone to be sacrificed, and he costs a lot. :/

Lets try to run with it, we're at 24 SS total and we need something cheap to sac to Killjoy, Desperate Mercenaries fit the bill well, they are cheap and will die anyway, they're fast, they up the model count, and they actually are not that bad and can stick around if I need them.

If we take three then that puts the total up to 30 SS, starting with 7 activations on the board, 3 CC beaters, a long range sniper, a heal bot, and 3 guys to run into things and die, the whole list is either move 5, or placed onto the board, and the important parts are hard to kill. This sounds like a list I can run with.

35 SS

Master

Viktoria

Minions

Desperate Mercenary

Desperate Mercenary

Desperate Mercenary

Freikorps Librarian

Freikorps Trapper

Killjoy

Can I hear any thoughts on this? It's a bit different than most of what I see here, but does anyone think this could work? or am I talking out my bum?

Does anyone think this is a valid way to try and build an army in Malifaux? Really I'm open to any comments or criticisms

[Rathnard]

Well Killjoy is several shades of awesome so you'll get no complaints from me. And the Desperate Mercs are a great choice for summoning in Killjoy too. The only negative is their insignificance and limited lifespan, which is a major problem if you need models to claim objectives or interact with things. You could always burn 2 SS on a suitably placed survivor to keep him around, or if the mission requires it, just cut down on the Desperate Mercs to add in a Ronin or a Student of Conflict.

The Trapper is probably a decent choice but to be honest I'm not sure the Librarian is a good idea. If you're getting her for healing then another 3 soulstones would probably do just as well. Also don't forget that desperate Mercs heal things when they die, so you do have that option.

To be honest, I should probably let someone else provide advice re: the Librarian but if it was me, I'd replace her with some other minion. One option is to replace the Librarian and a Desperate Merc with Hamelin? His Obey can be used to charge Killjoy at things (ie. extra movement and some control over what he attacks). and he's very good at messing with your opponents crew.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Rathnard

[Tiny]

I disagree on a few points you are making. Namely:

- ronin are too fragile. Have you been using harmless right? This makes your opponent burn through cards to even be able to target them. Not to mention hard to kill and with their defensive action they can get up to df 8!!! Definitely not a fragile model in the least.

- Von schill CAN use soul stones whether he is leading a crew or not. (page 35 rising powers)

- outcasts have limited shooting. Definitely not! trappers, convict gun slingers, hans. They would be the 2nd shootiest faction behind guild.

- Friekorpsmen dont scream awesome. Really for 4 points you get armour 1 magic resistant 1, that can ignore pulses/blasts and auras if it wishes. It also gets+2 wp when defending in a duel. Combined with the flurry action and a cb of 6 on its melee weapon with a brutal trigger!! Their lowish defense of 4 is the only bad point to them. All that and they are still significant!

To be honest your comment about wanting a model to go toe to toe with lord chompy bits you wont find one. I play outcasts (gremlins/levy/viks) and never born (mostly dreamer) and in my last game i had my lord chompy bits (with soul stones) for 2 action points make 9 attacks and that was on a ramos in cover.

Your crew isnt set up to stand toe to toe with him what your crew is set up to do is soften from range while getting healed by the librarian then go in with your glass cannons and wipe the floor with whats left.

I think what would be most helpful is learning the viktorias double activation leap frog bomb thingy (sisters in spirit combined with companion). Also i think just give the rules another going over because things like defensive stance can mean the difference to living or at least making a road block for an enemy hard hitter you intend to alpha strike.

[kxizm]

I second what Tiny says. Some of the points you make don't make sense. Von Schill can still Use SS. And he may seem overpriced, but it can depend on the situation. Freikorpsmen are great for their price. And I'm not sure why you didn't mention the specialist. Specialist is a wonderful way of laying down some AE firepower. Plus the humor is great...

The greatest thing about Malifaux is that it seems like every model can find its niche. Everything is situational. There are some games where you'll want the mobility of Von Schill or Viks, and there are other times when the strategy calls for more board control with Hamelin.

That being said, I don't think there's anything wrong with trying to make a list that more or less feels like a swiss army knife. Useful for any situation. And to that end, I think Friekorps running under Viks (its what I run) is a perfect example. But I won't be naive and say that there aren't situations where another model would be better to have.

My final point would be this: don't get caught up in one list. I don't think that's what Malifaux is about. Malifaux is about bringing the right models to the right fight.

[micahwc]

Johan and Taylor may be slow, but they do awesome damage and have an impressive 3 inch melee range (second only to Lilitu's barbed whip, and I think tied with Nekima's neverborn greatsword).

As far as having a model go toe to toe with chompy bits, Johan and Taylor are probably your best bet.

If they are too slow for you, perhaps you can try mitigating their slowness. Chompy Bits will come to you, so you don't need to waste a lot of AP running towards him. Melee focused armies will come right too you, and the slowness of Johan and Taylor will not matter as much. Plus, with a 3 inch melee range, they will outrange most enemies if you place them correctly. This will force the enemy to either charge or waste an ap moving before striking, and cause them to lose an attack.

[constructatron]

Ronin are far from slow! Run Through effectively increases their walk to 6 with and extra 4" push on a melee strike. Potentially, they can travel 24" in one activation.

[Wodschow]

Ronin are far from slow! Run Through effectively increases their walk to 6 with and extra 4" push on a melee strike. Potentially, they can travel 24" in one activation.

Run Through is a (2) action now, so they can't get quite that far anymore.

[Phalanx]

Ronin are far from slow! Run Through effectively increases their walk to 6 with and extra 4" push on a melee strike. Potentially, they can travel 24" in one activation.

Run Through is now 2 AP instead of 1 AP so they're slower now than when it was 1 AP.

Bishop isn't really that slow, though. Sure he only have a Wk of 4, but he has a Cg of 7 and he only spends 1 AP to charge so he can walk 4" and then charge 7" so he technically moves faster than a Wk 5 model (though he's still overcosted).