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Hamelin the Plagued Advice


FrereSebastian

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Well, you got several things wrong, seems some because the Strategy in the book is wrong (and is still wrong in the 2nd printing?!):

1. According to Ratty's cards, and later I'll search for it in the rules forum, models may not interact with the neutral marker until you get the three markers that you placed in the enemy's DZ.

2. Even if you had played by the what the book says, you can't take the markers from your side of the board, but only the enemy's. So you couldn't get the markers from your side, and he couldn't from his side, which both of you did.

3. You couldn't have got the center zone the way you described. Sorry.

a. Rat the first activates, walks 5" forward.

b. Rat the second activates, Writhing Masses 5" forward, walks 5" forward. Is now 10" forward. Center of central marker is in the center, so it's got 0.59" to your side. Together with your movement, that's 10.59"

c. In case push would allow you to get to the front of your friendly rat (does it?), a 30mm amounts to 1.07", so adding that you'd still be at 11.66". Which is nearly an inch less than the 12.5" you'd need.

d. And even then, you need a (1) interact to claim the objective. Which would require the rat-catchers and/or Hamelin with his obey.

Rats are slow, only 1 AP.

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Hm. I keep reading the placement of those two other tokens differently, as not within 8" of their DZ, but fully 8" within their DZ... which I guess is less likely, heh.

You still can't get the neutral token till you get them all, the ones you placed?

Ah I missed that.. ta that makes that strategy much more playable. You have to take all 3 of your placed objectives before you take the middle one. I see Sandwich got it wrong too.

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The rats also couldn't have got the center evidence in the way described. It's possible, but he'd have had to activate a Rat-Catcher, walk twice, slaughter the rats, place the new rats one base up, which adds another 1.07", putting it, in case Writhin Mass does allow you to go to the front, at 12.73", which is enough, and with (1) to interact. But again, due to how the scenario works...

Well, at this stage the rats could walk, then rat the second writhing masses, and they would just be touching the marker, due to marker being 17.5" from your DZ, and since it's "completely within", it goes like this:

First activation, all rats activate, one walks 5", second writhing masses to front, is now 6.07" from front, and this way you have 3 rats at the front row.

Those rats now walk 5" forward, so they're at 11.07". Rat Catcher walks and kills them, they gain an additional base ahead, so are now at 12.14".

Third activation, one walks 5" forward, is at 17.14", second writhin masses till he touches the objective marker, then interacts with it.

So you can get those markers on the first turn, but it requires 3 activations. And if any enemy model touches the marker, then you'd be in melee, and fail. Now, since it's completely within 8" of the enemy DZ, they only need to walk about 7-8" to do it, no sweat, for both markers.

Hamelin can reach and try to Obedience models on one of those zones, not both.

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Yeah there's alot of stuff wrong in what Sandwich describes, it's a shame they used the Shared Destroy Evidence as an example of Hamelins imbaness as it's clearly wrong the way it's written in the Book.

I also believe that Ratty's interpretation of it on the reference cards is wrong though and that each player should only place two Markers - one entirely within the opponents DZ and one within 8" of it.

Otherwise it means that a player can make 5VP from the Strategy (which I suppose could be okay as it's a shared one, just weird as all other Strats are 4VP).

It also seems that they got the deployment zones wrong and played with the crews starting 12,5" apart rather than 25" apart as it should be. As if this is not the case almost everything mentioned is impossible. Rats can't get to the center on their own on the first activation. Coppelius couldn't possibly have been in range of Hamelins spells. Stitched couldn't possible have used the Gambling actions on the Rats, etc. etc.

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I think they had diagonal DZ, and 12.5" per player. And Coppelius could. Hamelin can walk twice for 10", and his range for Obedience is 12", or 10" for the pipes. This means he can reach out 20-22" from his own DZ, and ping any model that walked more than 3-5" out of the enemy DZ. Since Coppelius walked twice, it's very likely.

As for the rats, they prolly mis-measured. It's 0.9" or so off, and if each time you move you get another 0.2" wrong, it adds up.

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I also believe that Ratty's interpretation of it on the reference cards is wrong though and that each player should only place two Markers - one entirely within the opponents DZ and one within 8" of it.

Otherwise it means that a player can make 5VP from the Strategy (which I suppose could be okay as it's a shared one, just weird as all other Strats are 4VP).

Hmm.. I think that was an error propagated for an earlier set of cards. have we ever had it clarified? I ask hopefully as I've never had C.Hoffman's Scheme clarified and that makes no sense at all.

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@Thunder:

That's not what Sandwich described though. (Edit: He said that he made Copp insig, summoned a Stolen and used Obedience - there's no actions left for him to Walk in)

I can't tell for sure, but from the description it sounds as if they played 12,5" apart rather than 25", this would explain all the oddities.

@Ratty:

Nope, noone ever bothered to ask it in the Rules Section I think? Would you care to start a thread? xD

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I've searched before, and even PMed Kaelthos, it's not fixed in the second printing, and nowhere on the rules forum did a Rules Marshall speak of it. Which is really really weird... I mean, not second printing nor on the "Additional errata"? :(

There are several missing sentences in the book, in the description of Actions on page 255 as well.

I wonder if Hoffman's is missing the word "Friendly" so you won't have anything but constructs, or it's basically a "never-take", or maybe "All the models within 6" of Hoffman must be constructs" as opposed to "All models on the table must be both constructs and within 6" of Hoffman".

Yeah, that makes the most sense - all models within 6" of Hoffman when the game ends need to be constructs is how I'd interpret it.

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Well to start, I suppose I should've logged everything as it happened, I didn't my bad.

Starting with the coolest cat in town,

Ah I missed that.. ta that makes that strategy much more playable. You have to take all 3 of your placed objectives before you take the middle one. I see Sandwich got it wrong too.

Yeah, Thunder God had the correct interpretation, sorry.

I was rushing through things when I wrote that and screwed up the method.

And apparently we played it wrong, because we played it by the book.

I suppose you three are right, I should've only had 3 VP, not four.

My apologies.

I suppose it could've gone differently as he had been more focused with taking the one in his DZ and not immediately heading for the center one.

And we had no idea about the whole "Take three before taking the middle" dealy-o.

So I suppose it would've gone differently turn one, but with the same relative outcome.

---

Yeah there's alot of stuff wrong in what Sandwich describes, it's a shame they used the Shared Destroy Evidence as an example of Hamelins imbaness as it's clearly wrong the way it's written in the Book.

I also believe that Ratty's interpretation of it on the reference cards is wrong though and that each player should only place two Markers - one entirely within the opponents DZ and one within 8" of it.

Otherwise it means that a player can make 5VP from the Strategy (which I suppose could be okay as it's a shared one, just weird as all other Strats are 4VP).

It also seems that they got the deployment zones wrong and played with the crews starting 12,5" apart rather than 25" apart as it should be. As if this is not the case almost everything mentioned is impossible. Rats can't get to the center on their own on the first activation. Coppelius couldn't possibly have been in range of Hamelins spells. Stitched couldn't possible have used the Gambling actions on the Rats, etc. etc.

We played as normal, we flipped deployment, we flipped for Shared / Individual, and ended up with Shared Destroy the Evidence, I don't know how to follow the rules any better than that, and I don't think any other strategy would've mattered at all.

If there's a certain strategy you'd like me to play against someone next time, I will be more than happy to oblige, promise. :]

Also, we started as it states in the book, each 12.5" away from the center of the gamefield, so we were a total of 25" apart from each other.

Hamelin also actually did not summon a Stolen turn one, he walked first, then did the Insignificant deal, and then Obeyed.

I also only had 5 rats, not 6, and therefore should've had a few extra SS in my bag, but got by fine without it.

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I still would have had three.

I have never seen an official ruling stating that the middle marker cannot be taken unless three others have been taken, and would therefore have only had three VP and not four/

Until proven otherwise by an official statement I will stand by that ruling.

(Not to discredit Ratty, he's a very intelligent dude.)

As an aside, this was still all in turn one, we called it turn 2 because it was midnight.

There will more than likely be a rematch, however.

(And possibly a 2v2 where I'll be a prick and play Hamelin.)

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We played as normal, we flipped deployment, we flipped for Shared / Individual, and ended up with Shared Destroy the Evidence, I don't know how to follow the rules any better than that, and I don't think any other strategy would've mattered at all.

Didn't mean to say that the Strategy was in favor of Hamelin, just that there haven't been a clarification as to how it's supposed to be played - which is of course unfortunate and have resulted in alot of people playing the strategy differently as this thread clearly demonstrates.

We play it so that each player have two Markers near the opponents DZ (one inside and one within 8" of it) and that they must destroy both of those before they can attempt to take the middle one - otherwise messy stuff happens and usually one crew will just rush to the middle and take the neutral Marker in turn one or two - and the entire game almost comes down to the starting flip (like what happened in yours).

If there's a certain strategy you'd like me to play against someone next time, I will be more than happy to oblige, promise. :]

Again didn't mean to say it was an unfair strategy, but since you ask how about a Slaughter?

If you bring the list suggested earlier and the enemy knows what he is doing and just poors in enough firepower to the rats you'll have a hard time there.

//on-topic-of-the-actual-thread - I'd even say that bringing Rat-Catchers to a slaughter is unadviceable as they're truely a double-edged sword against a smart opponent.

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Didn't mean to say that the Strategy was in favor of Hamelin, just that there haven't been a clarification as to how it's supposed to be played - which is of course unfortunate and have resulted in alot of people playing the strategy differently as this thread clearly demonstrates.

We play it so that each player have two Markers near the opponents DZ (one inside and one within 8" of it) and that they must destroy both of those before they can attempt to take the middle one - otherwise messy stuff happens and usually one crew will just rush to the middle and take the neutral Marker in turn one or two - and the entire game almost comes down to the starting flip (like what happened in yours).

Again didn't mean to say it was an unfair strategy, but since you ask how about a Slaughter?

If you bring the list suggested earlier and the enemy knows what he is doing and just poors in enough firepower to the rats you'll have a hard time there.

//on-topic-of-the-actual-thread - I'd even say that bringing Rat-Catchers to a slaughter is unadviceable as they're truely a double-edged sword against a smart opponent.

Oh, I understand.

Sorry for reading it that way, and thanks for the clarification. :]]

Well, if I take Slaughter, I would probably start with something along the lines of Nix + as many rats as I can fit in, but I'm fairly sure running the same list would have similar outcomes.

And I completely agree, the Rat Catchers are going to be serious trouble but Hamelin and his Rats should be capable of keeping pressure, damagewise.

We get together on Thursday, so I'll be able to report in then.

I'll take pictures and log everything, promise. :]

Edited by Sandwich
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I was the Pandora player in Sand's example. It was certainly a somewhat sloppy game, as I'm still really new to Malifaux, and it gets tedious shuffling through the RP book to double check all of Hamelins rules, but overall I think there are some valid points on both sides of the argument.

It seems more than anything that playing with/against Hamelin can really change the dynamic of certain strategies. His crews ability to toss around insignificant, combined with Bully... I can see this really creating some non-interactive playing experiences. If anything needs to be addressed it's Bully and Understand the Soulless. The spell is really under costed when it basically says, "You can't score VP or target Hamelin for the rest of the game". Perhaps changing Bully to only Ht 1 models, or Understand the Soulless to non-master models would balance things out.

With that said though, and after reviewing some of the schemes, there are some definite no-brainers when up against his crew. As a Neverborn player, Kidnap immediately jumped out to me as an automatic 2 VP. Hamelin and his crews overall lack of hitting power makes bodyguard a great choice (really, as a new player, it seems like one of the best schemes to take the majority of the time). Power Ritual could be good, as it coincides with avoiding the Plague crew. Sabotage as well, though you might not want to announce it. Gather soul stones since it's likely they wont have a good cache. First Blood. ... pretty much anything that doesn't rely on having more models or counters is a safe bet.

I think with a bit better technical writing (and I hate to say it, because I love the game, but this is really Wyrds weak point), Hamelin could be balanced fairly easy

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I was the Pandora player in Sand's example. It was certainly a somewhat sloppy game, as I'm still really new to Malifaux, and it gets tedious shuffling through the RP book to double check all of Hamelins rules, but overall I think there are some valid points on both sides of the argument.

It seems more than anything that playing with/against Hamelin can really change the dynamic of certain strategies. His crews ability to toss around insignificant, combined with Bully... I can see this really creating some non-interactive playing experiences. If anything needs to be addressed it's Bully and Understand the Soulless. The spell is really under costed when it basically says, "You can't score VP or target Hamelin for the rest of the game". Perhaps changing Bully to only Ht 1 models, or Understand the Soulless to non-master models would balance things out.

With that said though, and after reviewing some of the schemes, there are some definite no-brainers when up against his crew. As a Neverborn player, Kidnap immediately jumped out to me as an automatic 2 VP. Hamelin and his crews overall lack of hitting power makes bodyguard a great choice (really, as a new player, it seems like one of the best schemes to take the majority of the time). Power Ritual could be good, as it coincides with avoiding the Plague crew. Sabotage as well, though you might not want to announce it. Gather soul stones since it's likely they wont have a good cache. First Blood. ... pretty much anything that doesn't rely on having more models or counters is a safe bet.

I think with a bit better technical writing (and I hate to say it, because I love the game, but this is really Wyrds weak point), Hamelin could be balanced fairly easy

Spoken like a genius.

Agreed.

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He can only obey masters, or any model for that matter, with wp 5 or less. That affects two and a half masters, as stated previously.

The pandora player in the example was inexperienced with his master, a good pandora player would probably destroy hamelin.

I played rasputina against some new players once, not realizing they had never played her, when they bunched everything together I AE'd their entire force to death in a single round. She is not broken and unbeatable, they did not have a concept of her abilities

also, not knowing what your own models do, and playing them wrong in ways which make them eminantly more powerful, such as one shotting hoffman with rats or obeying masters with a WP of 7, can make a master seem more powerful then it actually is

I am fairly certain I could wipe out a decent hamelin player despite all of his "broken" abilities in a single round with...

Pandora (Jack Daw, Doppleganger, two stitched)

Collette (Coryphee duet, Cassandra)

Lilith (Lelu, Lelitu, Nekima)

without blinking an eye.

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I'm generally pretty lenient when someone argues something outlandish, but I know for a fact you can't finish any game without blinking.

I have yet to say that it is impossible for anyone to beat Hamelin.

Please find a point in any word ever spoken that states "Because Hamelin is overpowered he can never lose."

And if you do I will let you be my right hand man and we can have fiascos in downtown detroit solving ghost crimes.

But until then, please stop assuming that I am calling him unbeatable.

I am stating that there are broken mechanics and have thus far been doing nothing but agreeing that he isn't nearly as broken as I originally made it out to be.

The fact is, at least when I personally play Hamelin against anyone, it is a landslide victory in my favor.

Mayhaps I am the best Malifaux player ever to touch a Hamelin page, maybe everyone I play is just completely ignorant of the terrain and the models which they have long played, (Save WUWU, he just picked up Pandora and painted her, and he plays damn good.)

Or mayhaps the boys back at Wyrd just really dig the Hamelin legend (ala with a fancy a, The Pied Piper of Hamelin) and decided to throw in a ton of mechanics with a limited amount of actual playtesting.

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He can only obey masters, or any model for that matter, with wp 5 or less. That affects two and a half masters, as stated previously.

The pandora player in the example was inexperienced with his master, a good pandora player would probably destroy hamelin.

I played rasputina against some new players once, not realizing they had never played her, when they bunched everything together I AE'd their entire force to death in a single round. She is not broken and unbeatable, they did not have a concept of her abilities

also, not knowing what your own models do, and playing them wrong in ways which make them eminantly more powerful, such as one shotting hoffman with rats or obeying masters with a WP of 7, can make a master seem more powerful then it actually is

I am fairly certain I could wipe out a decent hamelin player despite all of his "broken" abilities in a single round with...

Pandora (Jack Daw, Doppleganger, two stitched)

Collette (Coryphee duet, Cassandra)

Lilith (Lelu, Lelitu, Nekima)

without blinking an eye.

Yes, I'm inexperienced with Malifaux, but I've also been playing war games and CCGs for nearly 15 years, so I'm not an idiot when it comes to game mechanics.

Now, Sand made a few statements regarding Hamelins balance and detractors respond with "Give me details", when details are given, the responses are in broad generalizations. Sound analysis doesn't work that way. Just because you say Hamelin isn't over powered doesn't make it so; try and at least give some play examples, for the benefit of the whole community.

Since Pandora is my main master at the moment (Colette soon to follow, so I may comment on that in the future), I'm curious on what tactics you are employing to "wipe out a decent hamelin player in one round"? What happens if Pandora becomes insignificant? From a relatively easy CC the main power behind your crew can be made irrelevant (and don't forget Hamelin has higher WP than Pandora), and Hamelins crew will most certainly outnumber yours, and is more mobile -with the exception of Pandora herself- in regards to achieving schemes and strategies.

Facts have been presented for Hamelin being too powerful, namely, higher model/activation count, all models are scoring models, nearly unkillable, and the ability to make your models irrelevant in the encounter. How specifically do you counter those advantages?

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Yes, I'm inexperienced with Malifaux, but I've also been playing war games and CCGs for nearly 15 years, so I'm not an idiot when it comes to game mechanics.

Now, Sand made a few statements regarding Hamelins balance and detractors respond with "Give me details", when details are given, the responses are in broad generalizations. Sound analysis doesn't work that way. Just because you say Hamelin isn't over powered doesn't make it so; try and at least give some play examples, for the benefit of the whole community.

Since Pandora is my main master at the moment (Colette soon to follow, so I may comment on that in the future), I'm curious on what tactics you are employing to "wipe out a decent hamelin player in one round"? What happens if Pandora becomes insignificant? From a relatively easy CC the main power behind your crew can be made irrelevant (and don't forget Hamelin has higher WP than Pandora), and Hamelins crew will most certainly outnumber yours, and is more mobile -with the exception of Pandora herself- in regards to achieving schemes and strategies.

Facts have been presented for Hamelin being too powerful, namely, higher model/activation count, all models are scoring models, nearly unkillable, and the ability to make your models irrelevant in the encounter. How specifically do you counter those advantages?

1) I noticed in Sandwich's post you attacked the rats with Gamble your Life. That makes no sense at all to me. Since the rats just come back, and then can activate to boot. I can not think of any good reason to focus on the rats at all to be honest. The only exception I could see to this, is taking out a swath of them while they are out of range of there healing.

2) Hamlin's biggest drawback is his dependency on his opponent to allow him to draw cards. I will admit I have not played against him, but if I did I would rarely cheat if I could help it. Using focused strikes, channeling, and defensive to keep my card advantage and then when I had a solid hand on say turn 4 and the Hamlin player has what will amount to be a card or two, I go alpha strike on him and take him down while he can not do much about it. Also it gives you an opportunity to exploit things like Slit Jugular. This drawback is HUGE when the opponent knows how to take advantage of it.

3) Hamlin's crews biggest drawback is proximity. Hamlin needs to stay close to the stolen, and he has no way to companion the two together, so moving around a bit can be a slight problem. The Rats need to be close to a Rat Catcher or Hamlin, or they can be gunned down with very little effort. Nix needs to be close for most of his tricks to work, either to his crew or an opponents model. Hamlin's crew has a decent amount of speed, but it still lacks a lot of mobility. Divide and conquer should be a pretty solid tactic when it comes to Hamlin. Things like Lure can become your best friend.

4) Hamlin's crew's second weakness is a lack of ranged support. Hamlin is the only real ranged support in his crew, lay down some ranged fire against him. Make him do all the walking, while you blast away. For the most part his crew has ok Df but does not really have any other defensive ability.

Edit: Also, in most peoples crews most or all of their models are scoring models, so I am not really sure that is a huge advantage. Secondly, a high model count can come in handy, but it can also be used against you (especially against Pandora) and I would imagine a good deal of the time, the rats will activate all at once, bringing the activation count down a bit.

Edited by ProdigalPunk
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1) I noticed in Sandwich's post you attacked the rats with Gamble your Life. That makes no sense at all to me. Since the rats just come back, and then can activate to boot. I can not think of any good reason to focus on the rats at all to be honest. The only exception I could see to this, is taking out a swath of them while they are out of range of there healing.

You're right about this. My main mistake was poor deployment for the strategy, and the Stitched Together were some of my last models to activate. There were very few options for them at this point, but in defense, the rats that spawned did nothing in return.

2) Hamlin's biggest drawback is his dependency on his opponent to allow him to draw cards. I will admit I have not played against him, but if I did I would rarely cheat if I could help it. Using focused strikes, channeling, and defensive to keep my card advantage and then when I had a solid hand on say turn 4 and the Hamlin player has what will amount to be a card or two, I go alpha strike on him and take him down while he can not do much about it. Also it gives you an opportunity to exploit things like Slit Jugular. This drawback is HUGE when the opponent knows how to take advantage of it.

I do agree with you here to an extent, but at the same time, when you aren't cheating, you also aren't maximizing your crews effectiveness. So while you are hampering Hamelin, you are in turn hindering yourself. Nearly a wash. Though, focusing and channeling is a good idea where applicable, I'll exploit that next time around ;)

3) Hamlin's crews biggest drawback is proximity. Hamlin needs to stay close to the stolen, and he has no way to companion the two together, so moving around a bit can be a slight problem. The Rats need to be close to a Rat Catcher or Hamlin, or they can be gunned down with very little effort. Nix needs to be close for most of his tricks to work, either to his crew or an opponents model. Hamlin's crew has a decent amount of speed, but it still lacks a lot of mobility. Divide and conquer should be a pretty solid tactic when it comes to Hamlin. Things like Lure can become your best friend.

4) Hamlin's crew's second weakness is a lack of ranged support. Hamlin is the only real ranged support in his crew, lay down some ranged fire against him. Make him do all the walking, while you blast away. For the most part his crew has ok Df but does not really have any other defensive ability.

Divide and conquer I can see being effective, but not so much the focus fire. The plague crew lends its self to a brick style formation like you are talking about, and firing at range doesn't seem to nullify the recursive advantage. While you are blasting away, you aren't necessarily capturing VPs, while their crew is regenerating. Maybe a full on family alpha strike could take out the lynch pins, I'm not entirely sure.

Edit: Also, in most peoples crews most or all of their models are scoring models, so I am not really sure that is a huge advantage. Secondly, a high model count can come in handy, but it can also be used against you (especially against Pandora) and I would imagine a good deal of the time, the rats will activate all at once, bringing the activation count down a bit.

It seems to me that a lot of the crews posted on the forums here have at least a few insignificant models, but that could just be my bias as I'm partial to a lot of the undead/construct type lists.

Anyway though, I appreciate your post, I'm hoping to get some solid tactics down for playing with and against Hamelin, as he's such an awesome character.

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This is because if Hamelin dies, he will come back immediately (and gains Reactivate, and is (+1)Fast)

He is summoned, so he will be slowed, which will cancel the fast. Plus next turn he will have to take at least 1 action to summon a new Stolen. You also forgot the minus to Ca.

This is because if Hamelin is hurt, he can heal immediately.

If by immediatley you mean on his next turn I agree, also please not MANY other models can heal on their turn, and soulstones allow this to happen as an innate function. Also note most of the Henchmen when killed can heal immediately.

This is because if Nix dies, you still have Hamelin.

Not really sure how to argue this, as the logic is sound, unless Hamlin died before Nix.

This is because if a Rat dies, it comes back immediately(and gains reactivate).

If it is within range of the ratcatcher or Hamlin. I'll stick to my not so immediate returning punkzombies.

This is because if a Rat Catcher dies, he can come back quickly.

Which really has nothing to do with Hamlin and everything to do with the ratcatcher and rats. Again, when he comes back, he will be slowed. Still I agree, a neat little trick.

This is because if a Stolen dies, s/he will come back quickly.

Which is good, since they seem really easy to kill. Plus again, costs Hamlin an AP to do.

This is because if a Rat damages anything, (And because of Impetuous, they do.) All other models hitting that model do +1 Dg(This increases exponentially because all of your rats act simultaneously and all of them inflict Blight Counters.)

I am really at a lose as to what you are talking about here, so I will defer. Also anyone in base contact is more then welcome to just up and leave on there turn. This is a major drawback.

This is because I have had a Rat 1 shot C.Hoffman (After his +4 armor)

Red joker, reshuffle deck because you ran out of cards, red joker again, then severe? Math still seems off, but again I will defer.

This is because I had 9 Blight Counters on C.Hoffman.

This has more to do with your opponents inability to play Hoffman then anything else I would assume.

This is because Hamelin can obey masters.

He can obey Kirai, McM, and LCB, and even then with some help. If you get it off on anyone else, then the player got what they deserved.

This is because Hamelin can ignore fate.

To one of his actions, once a turn, if he takes the zero action. I agree this is a powerful thing, but no more then a lot of other things out there.

This is because Hamelin cannot be targeted by Insignificant or Ht 1 models.

May I suggest to your opponent they do their best not to allow Hamlin to make his models insignificant. Possibly invest in a Flesh Construct or not allow you to have a decent hand to do with what you please.

This is because Hamelin has a cast of 7 and can permenantly make models Insignificant.

There are some masters out there that cast high and can permanently make a mode dead, which from where I stand is better then insignificant.

This is because Hamelin has a Cb 7 and can permenantly make models insignificant.

See above.

This is because Hamelin can Obey 90% of all models with his ranged Weapon.

Just flipping through the book, my count is something closer to 50%. But to be honest I only looked at Book 1.

This is because Hamelin can give himself +fate.gif+fate.gif to all attack and Defense flips.

This I agree should be cuddled. Lets say, maybe he should only be allowed to do it once a turn, and lets make him sac something near by to do it. Still a little powerful, lets not let him do that ignore fate thing that turn either. That should bring in back in line to a decent power level.

This is because he has Lure.

We definitely do not want masters on the power level of a Rotten Belle. Lets just be happy it was not Siren's Call (I am looking at you Avatar Hamlin).

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