Advice on what to get for starting Malifaux/Neverborn?

[Phalanx]

Hey. I've been interested in starting Malifaux for a while but the models aren't readily available where I live. Some guys who I game with are doing an order from an online store so I figure it's a good time to start and to save on shipping.

Anyways, I'm having trouble deciding on where to start. So far I know I want to get Lilith's brood. The site we're buying from is about 20% off so after the books and Lilith's brood I have around $58 left. Where should I go from there? Other things that interest me are the Bad Dreams set with the Dreamer and the Freikorps box, but I also like models such as Lilitu and it looks like Lilith's Brood is a bit lacking points-wise (with it only being able to use a maximum of 23ss because of the maximum of 8ss in your pool) and you probably need some young nephilim in order to grow the terror tots.

So, can you guys help me out a bit on deciding what to buy?

[Bozzy]

Young neph..lelu abd lillitu I've found useful in a lot of lists hooded rider might be fun tho I'm not a lillith player..i do think you might want your totem..the cherub maybe some stitched togethers just some ideas..

[tadaka]

Well the young are going to be ideal if you are wanting lilith as your first master.

Nice thing about the game wyrd has set up is models you get from one crew will often work well in another. So if you are also eyeing the dreamer Liltu and Lelu would be a great option because down the road they will work great if you get that starter set.

[Rathnard]

Here's what I think. This is assuming you want to stick with Lilith, and is in order of priority;

1. Young Nephilim

2. Primordial Magic or Cherub (They're both fine IMO, but being totems you can only take one of them)

*Note - above is more than enough for a capable Lilith crew - below are optionals*

3. Lilitu and Lelu

4. Another Lelu (This is based more on theory than experience)

That's about it at the moment if you're after a "Pure" Nephilim crew. If you want a bit of variety then a Friekorps Trapper/Specialist or Convict Gunslinger would all be good choices for a Lilith crew (she really lacks any shooting), as would the Hooded Rider. And for pure fun you could also consider grabbing KILLJOY.

When they're out you'll also want to get a black blood shaman, desperate mercs, Nekima and (once you have the latter) another blister of terror tots. That'd probably give you everything you'll ever need for fielding a pure Lilith crew.

For a Dreamer Crew, you'd want to look at getting;

1. The Dreamer Boxed set

2. Daydreams

3. Teddy

4. Alps (this is enough for a decent crew)

5. Lilitu & Lelu

6. More Alps (although it's a dirty tactic )

[karn987]

Here's what I think. This is assuming you want to stick with Lilith, and is in order of priority;

1. Young Nephilim

2. Primordial Magic or Cherub (They're both fine IMO, but being totems you can only take one of them)

*Note - above is more than enough for a capable Lilith crew - below are optionals*

3. Lilitu and Lelu

4. Another Lelu (This is based more on theory than experience)

That's about it at the moment if you're after a "Pure" Nephilim crew. If you want a bit of variety then a Friekorps Trapper/Specialist or Convict Gunslinger would all be good choices for a Lilith crew (she really lacks any shooting), as would the Hooded Rider. And for pure fun you could also consider grabbing KILLJOY.

When they're out you'll also want to get a black blood shaman, desperate mercs, Nekima and (once you have the latter) another blister of terror tots. That'd probably give you everything you'll ever need for fielding a pure Lilith crew.

For a Dreamer Crew, you'd want to look at getting;

1. The Dreamer Boxed set

2. Daydreams

3. Teddy

4. Alps (this is enough for a decent crew)

5. Lilitu & Lelu

6. More Alps (although it's a dirty tactic )

Everything Rathnard said =D

[Phalanx]

How important is it to get a totem for Lilith? Would it really hurt me that much if I didn't get one?

Other than that, I think I'll be getting a pair of young Nephilim, Lelu, Lilitu, and the Freikorps box so I can have some variety. The main reason I chose the Freikorps box over the Dreamer box is because from what I've heard you really need alps and daydreams with him and that would put me way over my spending limit (which I would $5 over with the Lilith set, lelu, the young neph, lilitu, the books, and the Freikorps box, which is also why I want to see if I can avoid getting a totem unless it would really hurt my force).

[karn987]

How important is it to get a totem for Lilith? Would it really hurt me that much if I didn't get one?

Other than that, I think I'll be getting a pair of young Nephilim, Lelu, Lilitu, and the Freikorps box so I can have some variety. The main reason I chose the Freikorps box over the Dreamer box is because from what I've heard you really need alps and daydreams with him and that would put me way over my spending limit (which I would $5 over with the Lilith set, lelu, the young neph, lilitu, the books, and the Freikorps box, which is also why I want to see if I can avoid getting a totem unless it would really hurt my force).

Neh it wont hurt you. But it can help in certain situations.

For the Dreamer, you 100% do NOT need Alps. It is just one tactic people favor. You cant go wrong with any Nightmares (especially Teddy who is just vicious since you can have 2+ of them). ONLY Daydreams are essential for the Dreamer, not any other Nightmare.

Edited January 7, 2011 by karn987

[Phalanx]

Neh it wont hurt you. But it can help in certain situations.

For the Dreamer, you 100% do NOT need Alps. It is just one tactic people favor. You cant go wrong with any Nightmares (especially Teddy who is just vicious since you can have 2+ of them). ONLY Daydreams are essential for the Dreamer, not any other Nightmare.

If Daydreams are must-haves for the Dreamer then I would have to cut out Lelu and Lilitu in order to afford them and get the Dreamer set instead of the Freikorps box. I want to get two masters either way with one of them being Lilith. Lilith needs young nephs so after that I can either go with the Freikorps box and get a lelu and a lilitu for Lilith or I can go with the Dreamer box and get some daydreams.

If I go with the Freikorps box then I can always use some Freikorps with Lilith for fun or I can use them on their own (I believe 25ss is probably the standard for my area) and I have access to a lelu and a lilitu with her or if I go with the Dreamer then there isn't really any crossover as she doesn't really want stiched togethers or Sir Eyegouger and he doesn't want any nephs.

I think I'll go with the Freikorps, a lelu, and a lilitu and save the Dreamer and his nightmares for a rainy day when I can afford to get a big band of nightmares for him (like a pair of teddies, some daydreams, and some alps).

Thank you for your help.

[karn987]

Good to hear! Enjoy all your shiny new models when they come in and I hope you enjoy Lilith! If your interested, I wrote a long involved tactica on her and a few others. The link is in my Signature for the documents.

[pugwhan]

Heres my .02 cents.. One of the parts I like most about Malifaux is how the scenario is set up. You decide your faction prior to seeing the board or knowing what strategy you are going to be playing. Now if you go FrieKorps and Lilith when you announce the faction you are playing, your opponents will know what they are going up against. However, if you go Dreamer and Lilith they may know what options you have but won't know whether they are facing a beatstick crew(Lilith) or a speed crew (The Dreamer).

[Ratty]

I find a lot of the time the conversation goes

"I fancy playing with X tonight, I haven't played X against Y yet you want to give it a go."

"Yeah why not, I can manage 25ss confortable is that OK."

"Yeah 25ss is good, What should we do for terrain"

"Just make it interesting"

"K.. should we have a river"

"Nah"

"OK flip a card for Strategy."

I get the feeling most people play this way casually. If your going to do tournaments I would definitely consider getting 2+ masters in a faction. If your wanting to have a bit of variety or a 2nd crew so that you can run intros I would recommend getting 2 different style masters from different factions. Asking a new player if they want to play a Demonic beatstick and her unholy spawn or Jack the Ripper and his Unliving prostitutes, it's more interesting than do you want to play Jack the Ripper and his Unliving prostitutes or Nicodem and his Unliving Hoarde.

Edited January 7, 2011 by Ratty

[Phalanx]

Good to hear! Enjoy all your shiny new models when they come in and I hope you enjoy Lilith! If your interested, I wrote a long involved tactica on her and a few others. The link is in my Signature for the documents.

I have both the Dreamer and the Lilith tacticas saved and ready to be read.

Heres my .02 cents.. One of the parts I like most about Malifaux is how the scenario is set up. You decide your faction prior to seeing the board or knowing what strategy you are going to be playing. Now if you go FrieKorps and Lilith when you announce the faction you are playing, your opponents will know what they are going up against. However, if you go Dreamer and Lilith they may know what options you have but won't know whether they are facing a beatstick crew(Lilith) or a speed crew (The Dreamer).

I find a lot of the time the conversation goes

"I fancy playing with X tonight, I haven't played X against Y yet you want to give it a go."

"Yeah why not, I can manage 25ss confortable is that OK."

"Yeah 25ss is good, What should we do for terrain"

"Just make it interesting"

"K.. should we have a river"

"Nah"

"OK flip a card for Strategy."

I get the feeling most people play this way casually. If your going to do tournaments I would definitely consider getting 2+ masters in a faction. If your wanting to have a bit of variety or a 2nd crew so that you can run intros I would recommend getting 2 different style masters from different factions. Asking a new player if they want to play a Demonic beatstick and her unholy spawn or Jack the Ripper and his Unliving prostitutes, it's more interesting than do you want to play Jack the Ripper and his Unliving prostitutes or Nicodem and his Unliving Hoarde.

I expect things will usually go the way Ratty suggested. Most of the people who have crews have them for different factions rather than sticking to just one so masters will probably be decided before hand most of the time.

Also, I like the idea that I will have a crew with shooting. In most games I generally have very little shooting (I think my space wolves army is the one I own with the most shooting and even then it generally wins through close combat) so it will be interesting having a crew that looks like everything can shoot decently well.

[Natty]

I expect things will usually go the way Ratty suggested. Most of the people who have crews have them for different factions rather than sticking to just one so masters will probably be decided before hand most of the time.

Pfffffffffftttttt.

Neverborn pride baby...

NEVERBORN PRIDE!!!!!

I have only ever once played a non-neverborn master and that was when my friend wanted me to play his Viks crew so he could see what tricks I would use.

[xxXhayzelXxx]

*high-fives Natty* neverborn all the way!

[vybeosa]

I usually stick to a faction, but not because of the tournament rules.

A lot of models can be interchanged between masters within a faction, thus I save money not having to get a whole crew each time I want to try a new master.

Of course, enjoying the faction's fluff helps a lot too.

[Phalanx]

I usually stick to a faction, but not because of the tournament rules.

A lot of models can be interchanged between masters within a faction, thus I save money not having to get a whole crew each time I want to try a new master.

Of course, enjoying the faction's fluff helps a lot too.

Money is an important consideration, but with my choice here it's more of because I can't afford the models to use a decent Lilith list and a decent Dreamer list while it looks like Freikorps is decent right out of the box.

I do think Neverborn is the coolest faction in the game though. I can't really see myself playing any other full faction and the only non-Neverborn I can see myself using are Freikorps. If I had more money I would get the Dreamer box before the Freikorps box, especially since it was seeing the Dreamer in the book that made me decide that I would eventually decide to start Malifaux. As it is though I don't believe I can do the Dreamer justice right now so I'll bide my time and save up some cash to make a Dreamer crew at a later time when I can afford more than just his box set.

[micahwc]

I play Lillith more than any other master (although I have all but the dreamer for neverborn, and I just got Pandora). I find that Lilith works well with nephilim (duh.), Lelu and Lilitu, waldgeists, and sillurids. All of these fit her fast play style. I have two sets of the Lelu/Lilitu that I have used with her. I have liked the young nephilim in the past, but recently have used the sillurids and waldgeists more. They all work well with her.

I don't like using terror tots with her very much, and although I love the model I do not use the mature nephilim very much either. Youngs are my favorite with her, as they actually do more damage than the mature do with flay, and they are almost as good for 4 points cheaper.

Terror tots are fun in a large game with Nekima, but I then grow them to young as soon as possible.

The twins are brutal with Lilith, and Lilitu's lure ability has an 18 inch range, which I believe is longer range than all of the guns in the game. My last game against the Ortegas saw Nino moving into his extreme range. He measured and was about an inch short with his 16 inch range. I lured him, got double take, and lured twice more. He ended up next to Lelu who had not activated yet, and who promptly killed Nino at the end of turn 1. Keep in mind that you can run the twins with another Lilitu or Lelu if you want. Another fun tactic is to companion one of the twins with Lilith, and then chain companion the rest of the twins.

Waldgeists are fun because they have armor 2 and are still relatively fast moving. They have scout. They do decent damage, and you can always count on having a tree thanks to illusionary forest. I use them to attack through cover with scout, since enemys are usually slowed by rough terrain and they are not. They are also good for absorbing enemy gun fire with their armor 2. I do not plan my strategy around thier tree abilities, but if I find an opportunity to use them I do not hesitate to do so.

Sillurids are awesome, even if they die easy. They can move 20+ inches in one turn, and are really good for taking out enemy snipers that thought they where safe. (I'm looking at Hans, Nino, and the Trapper)

If you are looking for a second neverborn master to take with Lilith in a brawl, I think Zoraida and Pandora would both have a lot to offer. I have only played a couple of games with them, but I think they both have abilities that would synergize well with Lilith. Obey and the mature neph, or adding Pandoras 12 inch death bubble with Lilith in the middle killing everything that survives.

[Avarice711]

Hey i got to admit i first wanted kiari as my first master but when i learned she was so model intensive and didn't want to drop around a hundred dollars just to feel out the game i went neverborn and i haven't looked back Never Born is definately For the win.

I personally love the hooded rider and i know he doesn't get much love and he does seem like a really bland model as far as what he does, and I agree to a point but he also adds a lot of flexibility to any list. tha's just my 02 cents

[kasin666]

Neh it wont hurt you. But it can help in certain situations.

For the Dreamer, you 100% do NOT need Alps. It is just one tactic people favor. You cant go wrong with any Nightmares (especially Teddy who is just vicious since you can have 2+ of them). ONLY Daydreams are essential for the Dreamer, not any other Nightmare.

one correction if you use copelius which is in the bad dreams box youll need the alps as he summons them

[karn987]

one correction if you use copelius which is in the bad dreams box youll need the alps as he summons them

Proxies =D

I'm all for people buying Wyrd's products and like the motto is at my LGS "We are addicts and pushers at the same time". But I don't want to give anyone a false impression for something that is required. So for someone like Coppelius who some times summons Alps, proxies are good enough if you can't afford another blister. So on the list of things he wanted, it wasn't even close to required. =)

I personally love the hooded rider and i know he doesn't get much love and he does seem like a really bland model as far as what he does, and I agree to a point but he also adds a lot of flexibility to any list. tha's just my 02 cents

I hode the Hooded Rider to! He gets some love, but he is a bit less trixy then some of the Neverborn other models and he has no direct synergy with any Neverborn master. BUT! He is awesome still with all of them (less for the Dreamer, but hey can't have them all ;D ).

I don't think he is bland... his cycling ability is really cool and it was the first of it's kind originally. This gives him a lot of utility and means he can change to handle any crew he is going up against. He is still one of my favorite models against ranged Crews.

[Avarice711]

yea the hooded rider saved me arse vs perdita crew when playing pandora

[LordFett]

Here's what I think. This is assuming you want to stick with Lilith, and is in order of priority;

My daughter has really gotten into Malifaux and really wants to start playing Neverborn. She wants to start with Lilith, as much as I'd love to fill out the list Rathnard posted, I have to be realistic with money for her start. I am looking at Lilith's Brood and a deck of cards for her to start off the game. If I were to get a pack of something to add to this crew what would get her the most bang for my buck? Nephelims or a totem?

[Buck Dog]

My daughter has really gotten into Malifaux and really wants to start playing Neverborn. She wants to start with Lilith, as much as I'd love to fill out the list Rathnard posted, I have to be realistic with money for her start. I am looking at Lilith's Brood and a deck of cards for her to start off the game. If I were to get a pack of something to add to this crew what would get her the most bang for my buck? Nephelims or a totem?

While the totem is a nice thing to have, I would say that a pack of young nephelims is pretty much essential.

[Absolution Black]

+1 on the Young Nephilim. Then get the totem when you can. Good luck with Lilith!

[karn987]

My daughter has really gotten into Malifaux and really wants to start playing Neverborn. She wants to start with Lilith, as much as I'd love to fill out the list Rathnard posted, I have to be realistic with money for her start. I am looking at Lilith's Brood and a deck of cards for her to start off the game. If I were to get a pack of something to add to this crew what would get her the most bang for my buck? Nephelims or a totem?

Absolutely Young Nephilim because the Terror Tots will use their Grow spell to turn into them. So even if you don't get them, you will need some sort of proxy for them. So you may as well pick them up to start with.

Glad to hear we have another Neverborn! I hope you will extend our welcomes to her joining our happy little monster family =D

If it will help her out, the link in my Sig will take you to some indepth and rather involved Tactica's I've written. One of them goes through Lilith and should be of use to her.