Starting with Pandora...

[karn987]

Could i request the updated tactica glorious one, the lilith one was awesome!!!

The changes I made during the last game were to lose the totem (although 7 cards was really cool!) and upgrade candy to coppelius and a sorrow to a madness- i think his melee really gives a plan b, I LOVE the model, and think he will work better for me than candy. She will have her place tho I am sure....

Gone the WP way,buteveryone seems to say this is to broken. If this becomes the case (althought the spread of wins in my gaming circle is pretty even) I will probs look for a more challenging way to play her.

My problem is that if this is the case, I just plain love her models- my main prob with my lilith crew is that I love tots BBS and nekima, and Lelu and lilitu are just better imo in 30ss games (speaking generally)

Thanks for the advice: looking forward to using him!!!

Of course =) Just send me a PM asap as I should have the updates done and sent out tonight and it's a BIG list this time (well over 50 requests >.>).

Well Pandora is not broken by any means. What most people perceive as broken about her is that she attacks you through a unique method. Since most people are not ready for it and do poorly at adapting to her play style, they call her broken. In reality, once they get used to her, they see that she is just powerful. But as you probably know, she has her lynch pin spells and abilities and the key to defeating Pandora is defeating her Wp duels. Units like the Freikorps are FANTASTIC at doing this, were as things like Undead are generally fodder for her.

But the Wp based Route is maybe slightly stronger then the non-wp base route. It's really hard to say... I think it more depends on your play style. I love tricks and I never go into a fight without having half a dozen aces up my sleeve. My moto is: Why fight fair when you can cheat fate? ;D

If anything, I think the Wp based route is much harder to pull off because the best models for this are often fragile and your plans for success are much more fragile. Though all this being said, when they work it's an iron tight trap. Ever seen Lady J with Dementia on her with 2 negative flips to her Wp duels try to do anything? It's funny =D. But then again, ever seen what happens if she manages to pass the duels? Its messy D=

So I say go for Wp and go with mixed units like Lilitu + Lelu, Coppelius etc. You want a few Sorrows now that they are back in the saddle again. Madness are very very nice with her, but don't go insane with them. Stitched Together can deal out a HUGE amount of damage but are a tad short range.

So you will see =) The updated tactica has some nice stuff in it.

[Wodschow]

I love tricks and I never go into a fight without having half a dozen aces up my sleeve. My moto is: Why fight fair when you can cheat fate? ;D

Uh oh.. I think you misunderstood something quite fundamental in Malifaux..

Aces are a bad thing, and certainly not suitable for you to cheat fate with!!

[M_Ruckuss]

Of course =) Just send me a PM asap as I should have the updates done and sent out tonight and it's a BIG list this time (well over 50 requests >.>).

Well Pandora is not broken by any means. What most people perceive as broken about her is that she attacks you through a unique method. Since most people are not ready for it and do poorly at adapting to her play style, they call her broken. In reality, once they get used to her, they see that she is just powerful. But as you probably know, she has her lynch pin spells and abilities and the key to defeating Pandora is defeating her Wp duels. Units like the Freikorps are FANTASTIC at doing this, were as things like Undead are generally fodder for her.

But the Wp based Route is maybe slightly stronger then the non-wp base route. It's really hard to say... I think it more depends on your play style. I love tricks and I never go into a fight without having half a dozen aces up my sleeve. My moto is: Why fight fair when you can cheat fate? ;D

If anything, I think the Wp based route is much harder to pull off because the best models for this are often fragile and your plans for success are much more fragile. Though all this being said, when they work it's an iron tight trap. Ever seen Lady J with Dementia on her with 2 negative flips to her Wp duels try to do anything? It's funny =D. But then again, ever seen what happens if she manages to pass the duels? Its messy D=

So I say go for Wp and go with mixed units like Lilitu + Lelu, Coppelius etc. You want a few Sorrows now that they are back in the saddle again. Madness are very very nice with her, but don't go insane with them. Stitched Together can deal out a HUGE amount of damage but are a tad short range.

So you will see =) The updated tactica has some nice stuff in it.

Pm sent!! Am very much looking forward to reading it sir!!

I also like a tricky playing style with mutliple "plan z's" to fall back on. And yeah I agree-cheating fate is FAR more fun!

Yeah I had firgured out the Wp weakness, which is why I like the ST/coppelius link and have Kade as an option (chuck in a few crows and hey presto!!)

I love the stitched together for sure, but are they really that good in combat?I know the radius 4"/diameter 8" fog is awesome, and great to use after Pandora has gone (cast with her, move her, move ST then cast fog.

(Plus they look like the boogeyman from 'the nightmare before xmas'-great models)

IM are great when you make them flee. On that note, I didnt realise you moved fleeing models in THEIR next activation, effectively costing them 2 activations...!!!

Is Ratty correct when he says sorrows dont push after Pandora pushes (he normally is!)

Many thanks,

your (grateful) neverborn padawan

[karn987]

Pm sent!! Am very much looking forward to reading it sir!!

I also like a tricky playing style with mutliple "plan z's" to fall back on. And yeah I agree-cheating fate is FAR more fun!

Yeah I had firgured out the Wp weakness, which is why I like the ST/coppelius link and have Kade as an option (chuck in a few crows and hey presto!!)

I love the stitched together for sure, but are they really that good in combat?I know the radius 4"/diameter 8" fog is awesome, and great to use after Pandora has gone (cast with her, move her, move ST then cast fog.

(Plus they look like the boogeyman from 'the nightmare before xmas'-great models)

IM are great when you make them flee. On that note, I didnt realise you moved fleeing models in THEIR next activation, effectively costing them 2 activations...!!!

Is Ratty correct when he says sorrows dont push after Pandora pushes (he normally is!)

Many thanks,

your (grateful) neverborn padawan

Yup Ratty is right. They only follow up when the model they are linked to Wk's pretty much. So no easy button on this one ;D

As for Stitched Together, look at Gamble Your Life and Gambler. Both are Wp based and have some very nice effects tied to them. Gamble Your Life does a LOT of dmg when paired with Pandora and Sorrows and can be made into an easy win with Madness or Project Emotions. So they can bring a big punch to your crews usual style of Death by a thousand cuts.

Plus they are tough as nails and nice and cheap. They make great objective holders and grabbers thanks to Does Not Die (funny as heck if one can get the Treasure chest =D)

[Ratty]

Yup Ratty is right. They only follow up when the model they are linked to Wk's pretty much. So no easy button on this one ;D

Remember that although the Sorrow doesn't move after you push with Incite or Pacify, they do move to you at the end of your activation. your real issue is you won't get the extra Wd from your Sorrow on failed Wp tests if you strip yourself away from them with Incite/Pacify. Sometimes it might be worth. Inciting yourself into position and then Walking once to get the extra Wd, especially if you are going to drop a blast.

[M_Ruckuss]

Yup Ratty is right. They only follow up when the model they are linked to Wk's pretty much. So no easy button on this one ;D

As for Stitched Together, look at Gamble Your Life and Gambler. Both are Wp based and have some very nice effects tied to them. Gamble Your Life does a LOT of dmg when paired with Pandora and Sorrows and can be made into an easy win with Madness or Project Emotions. So they can bring a big punch to your crews usual style of Death by a thousand cuts.

Plus they are tough as nails and nice and cheap. They make great objective holders and grabbers thanks to Does Not Die (funny as heck if one can get the Treasure chest =D)

Clcl, thought he would be!!

Havent used those abilties yet (only played once will have too look at those friday) Why does "does not die" make for a great objective holder...I know it means he re-activates if he has already gone which is cool, but have I missed something else/other implications (as in can you keep him alive for more turns/heal him or some other such trick?)

[M_Ruckuss]

Remember that although the Sorrow doesn't move after you push with Incite or Pacify, they do move to you at the end of your activation. your real issue is you won't get the extra Wd from your Sorrow on failed Wp tests if you strip yourself away from them with Incite/Pacify. Sometimes it might be worth. Inciting yourself into position and then Walking once to get the extra Wd, especially if you are going to drop a blast.

Clcl, thankyou for the advice "dear fellow" (sorry but it makes me think wind in the willows!)

[M_Ruckuss]

Clcl, thought he would be!!

Havent used those abilties yet (only played once will have too look at those friday) Why does "does not die" make for a great objective holder...I know it means he re-activates if he has already gone which is cool, but have I missed something else/other implications (as in can you keep him alive for more turns/heal him or some other such trick?)

Yeah, I still dont get does not die: does he get removed at the end of the start close phase, or does he just keep going until "removed from play" or sacrificed?

[karn987]

Yeah, I still dont get does not die: does he get removed at the end of the start close phase, or does he just keep going until "removed from play" or sacrificed?

"Does Not Die!: When this model would be killed, it instead remains in play with 1 Wd remaining. If this model already activated this turn it receives Reactivate. Sacrifice this model during the Resolve Effects Step."

The last underlined line tells you when he is sacrificed (which is removing him from play essentially). But he is sacrificed, as in the game term and function sacrifice, nothing else. He get's sacrificed during the Resolve Effects Step.

Simple enough once you wrap your head around it. Got it figured out?

[Wodschow]

Notice that what karn is quoting is the old description from the book, the one featured on the card includes a clause that prevents you from burying Stitched after they died the first time.

Which is really only relevant for the Dreamer so not too relevant here, yeah well..

Also note that they can only reactivate once a turn, even if killed multiple times.

[M_Ruckuss]

Notice that what karn is quoting is the old description from the book, the one featured on the card includes a clause that prevents you from burying Stitched after they died the first time.

Which is really only relevant for the Dreamer so not too relevant here, yeah well..

Also note that they can only reactivate once a turn, even if killed multiple times.

"Does Not Die!: When this model would be killed, it instead remains in play with 1 Wd remaining. If this model already activated this turn it receives Reactivate. Sacrifice this model during the Resolve Effects Step."

The last underlined line tells you when he is sacrificed (which is removing him from play essentially). But he is sacrificed, as in the game term and function sacrifice, nothing else. He get's sacrificed during the Resolve Effects Step.

Simple enough once you wrap your head around it. Got it figured out?

Yeah, thanks guys, this was what I thought it meant. I befuzzled myself-this is how I played it orignally but posts I read seemed to make me think I may have been missing something-me being a muppet. Thanks!

[M_Ruckuss]

Thought Id leave some feedback, and share some of my finds...

I love Stitched together- I just played a game (using it properly) with one and they are awesome! In fact in some games I think either dropping a sorrow from my list and upgrading my insidious madness and taking a primordial magic or even dropping (love the model and the rules, but at the momenthe just isnt suiting my style of play- getting pandora where she needs to be is easier with 2 stitched together, and they work better with coppelius than Kade (nightmares and dont eat crows!) Managed to summon an alp- it was hilarious (for me!!!). Coppelius was awesome but got red-jokered, and while i rate I-M they and Kade arent working so well ATM. Need a bit more speed perhaps (or a bigger cloud to let coppelius move wherever he wants) and think a nightmare/woe strike force backed up by Pandora and a pair of woes (or a woe and either candy or Kade) may be the way im headed

And theory-fauxing with my book today- I think Marcus can be played well with those undead bat things in rising powers- for 3ss a model they are great and wouls work well with some of his conventional beasties (i think I worked ou x4 with either x2 sabretooths or 1 and a lawyer for giggles- not a neverbor question per say, just wondered what other think of this list as I keep hearing Marcus referred to as "the weakest master"...just interesed!)

McDoogle

[viggo3000]

Stitched togethers work well. They work with all the neverborn masters and pandoras wp Cuddling is nice for them. They can give cover to the rest of the crew if you face somethin shooty (wich is nice since pandoras crew often is kinda fragile)

For 5 points they are a steal.

[M_Ruckuss]

Stitched togethers work well. They work with all the neverborn masters and pandoras wp Cuddling is nice for them. They can give cover to the rest of the crew if you face somethin shooty (wich is nice since pandoras crew often is kinda fragile)

For 5 points they are a steal.

Yeah, I agree! project emotions, (preferably cast with a crew to make everyone run) followed by stitched together casting gamble your life (with enemies on a -flip) is just awesome! 2 of these, I think will be awesome.

Add these two with coppelius for 19 soulstones, leaves me with one of these:

i) 2 sorrows and IM 10 ss

ii) Candy and a sorrow 11ss (to bodyguard Pandora)

iii) Kade, a sorrow, and Primodial magic 11ss

iv) 3 sorrows and a primordial magic

May try Candy to keep Pandora alive, Kade to bodyguard her and be my next plan if nightmares fail. I love sorrows, and would ideally use 2 (i think 3 may be to many- makes her very vulnerable to blasts) but candy, while more expensive may bring more to the table. Of course, a dopple ganger and a sorrow could also work to.

[karn987]

One of my favorite things about Pandora is that there isn't really a bad way to build her crew. You can do a variety of different builds (some of course work better then others) and they will all be able to win.

Give each a try, find what you like. You don't have to stick to the same list all the time =)

[Natty]

One of my favorite things about Pandora is that there isn't really a bad way to build her crew. You can do a variety of different builds (some of course work better then others) and they will all be able to win.

Well, there is one bad way to build a Pandora crew and that is if you don't take a doppelganger. Best model ever for Pandora.

But yeah, Pandora and a doppelganger don't even need backup. I say take the models that you think look the coolest.

[karn987]

Well, there is one bad way to build a Pandora crew and that is if you don't take a doppelganger. Best model ever for Pandora.

But yeah, Pandora and a doppelganger don't even need backup. I say take the models that you think look the coolest.

Nope. Not even required. I didn't use it for a long time and did very well with her. Heck I don't even use it all that much right now and still do very well. It is not a requirement to make her work =).

You can certainly build a crew around the idea of Doppel + Pandora Wp abuse. But it is far from the only way to do it.

The only thing you require to have a good Pandora crew is Pandora and make sure you spend those SS on some kind of crew. =D

[Wodschow]

Well, there is one bad way to build a Pandora crew and that is if you don't take a doppelganger. Best model ever for Pandora.

But yeah, Pandora and a doppelganger don't even need backup. I say take the models that you think look the coolest.

Oh c'mon now.. I really wish you didn't always say things like this. By being so blunt you're indirectly saying that people who don't bring the Doppel are bad.

Yes, the Doppelganger is a great minion, especially for Pandora.

But no, you don't -have- to include it.

You can easily make a list that isn't inherently bad without it.

[M_Ruckuss]

It was the first model I bought along with teddy and the LofS, but sadly neither has been making my lists recently!

I love the dolls (-Zoroida WILL be done with Collodi when Collodi is released...!!!) so love mulitple stitched (ooggie boogie!!!) and I love Coppelius. Sorrows are also cool, but I really only like to link upto 2 to Pandora at once for Blast and her being able to move purposes!

Will eventually include Dopple, but no room atm! Am also trying to get the most out of Candy and Kade, to no avail-not suiting my current (and new and developing/still changing) playing style- why i'm loving the crew- too many questions and not enough answers!!!

Thanks for all the comments guys- and yeah Karn, my crew is to be selected from as many Ht 1/2 30mm base models as can be rammed in 1 case!!!

Q)Best way to counter models like a 'tina suped-up Hans who ignores terrain and can blast me to bits???

[Ratty]

I've played a lot against Pandora and I don't think I've had a game where the Doppleganger has even remotely made her points back. She is so easy to kill. If I had the choice I would rather face the Doppleganger than a couple of Stitched. I really don't think she's an auto include.

[viggo3000]

"tina suped-up Hans" ?

[M_Ruckuss]

"tina suped-up Hans" ?

I may be wrong, but I was referring to the silent ones ability to increase his range. As it is I think that as long I can keep my stitched behing morw than 2" of coverplus fog I will be alright. Am I also correct in thinking that the Hunter ability does not allow you to target through walls, buildings etc even if they are less than 6"??? If so surely all I need to do is hide him behind a big enough wall or building (granted in the right place) then I will be ok!!!

[M_Ruckuss]

Is this too many eggs in one basket (as a list variable, not an absolute list??):

Pandora (Cache 5)

2 Sorrows (6ss)

Coppelius (9ss)

3 Stitched Together (15ss)

Enjoy Insidious madnesses, and am still finding my feet with them. Great for missions when I need manouverability. The other thought I had was using them in the same role I currently use the sorrows in but without link (and link fixed) I think I prefer the sorrows.

I also think the crew plays well without a totem, and I think this crew could be fun- coppelius allows me to paralyze anything I don't want to take head on, Pandora makes think flee as well as the obvious Wp shenanigans, and aside from being simply beautiful models he stitched together are great fun, and both the gambling abilities are great fun.

My question, in summary, is am I putting to many eggs in 1 basket with this selection (as a general idea- obviously strategy flip will affect this).

[Alondir]

everytime iv used stitched they have been amazing, never been disapointed. only problem I can maybe see is if u lose a lot of the wp duels, but u do a lot more damage having Pandora there. Seems a solid list but didn't spot a madness

[karn987]

Is this too many eggs in one basket (as a list variable, not an absolute list??):

Pandora (Cache 5)

2 Sorrows (6ss)

Coppelius (9ss)

3 Stitched Together (15ss)

Enjoy Insidious madnesses, and am still finding my feet with them. Great for missions when I need manouverability. The other thought I had was using them in the same role I currently use the sorrows in but without link (and link fixed) I think I prefer the sorrows.

I also think the crew plays well without a totem, and I think this crew could be fun- coppelius allows me to paralyze anything I don't want to take head on, Pandora makes think flee as well as the obvious Wp shenanigans, and aside from being simply beautiful models he stitched together are great fun, and both the gambling abilities are great fun.

My question, in summary, is am I putting to many eggs in 1 basket with this selection (as a general idea- obviously strategy flip will affect this).

No that will work. Pandora can function at any crew design, elite spam, moderate spread, cheap spam etc. Remember that Pandora can win just by herself if need be, so it should work.

Just as always, watch out for Blast Damage and keep Coppelius safe or he will get eaten alive.