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Starting with Pandora...


M_Ruckuss

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I am starting a Pandora crew for a number of reasons which include:

1)My opponents all own/are in the process of owning 2 crews for heir preferred faction, and I would like to do the same, for tactical and variety reasons.

2)She looks like a completely different gaming experience from Lilith

3)Its an excuse to buy a baby cade and mini-weirdsketch

4)My new years res is to save for a house, so this will be my last new crew for a while (CONTINUING other crews is not the same thing, so I may buy zoroida as well so I can bypass the misuss' rules and only "continue" this crew.

In short, for starters I have bought a teddy, a doppleganger, LofS boxed set and a poltetgeist, and also have access to all my Lilith/Neph models. These are my initial thoughts:

Pandora-Cache 6

Baby Cade 6ss

3 sorrows 9ss

Poltergeist 2ss

Teddy 9ss

Another sorrow, or (a terror tot) 3ss

General idea- keep Pandora at back, probs in base contact with 4th sorrow, and use her WP abilities to drain wounds, which sorrows finish off. Poltergeist is there to cast 1 of her spells etc (although could include another sorrow, but this seems a bit boring/predictable) while cade and teddy are the obvious muscle (or subtle brutality....!) Sorrow are their to link and finish off stuff Pandora has wounded.

I realise none of these ideas are original, and arent supposed to be, but are more of a "I have my 1st game with a crew described as 1 of the hardest 2 use....am I heading in the right direction?"!!!!

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Your crew is a good start. A couple of things you might want to consider:

-I have found a primordial magic better than the poltergeist

-I have found pandora's crew is one that all needs to work in conjunction with each other. Basically Pandora in my experience is more of a mid line master than a back line master

-You should consider trying to fit in Candy if you can. The healing and speed she brings to pandora is quite nice.

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I'm in the process of learning the ropes with Pandora as well. Karn put together a really helpful tactica doc for her, if you have not gotten on the mailing list yet we can post the link for that thread.

I have run her with mostly the starter box and sometimes a teddy so far. Candy has always been worth her points, the healing and the extra casting of self loathing are invaluable.

The doppelganger is on the painting bench, but I've heard great things about her.

In general, Pandora's crew is very deceptive in how much damage they do. People will be faced with willpower duels and may not bother to cheat or soulstone to avoid taking 1 pt of damage, but those damage points can add up quick.

Depending on the strategy, your opponent may be better off avoiding your crew and accomplishing the scenario. I played against her the other day with the vikis and had supply wagon. If the vikis had focused just on destroying the supply wagon they might have pulled off the win, but I made the noob mistake of trying to kill pandora or the kids. The lesson: get in your opponents face and make him fight your crew in Pandora's 12" bubble, and it will hurt. Worry about the scenario and how your death of a thousand cuts crew is going to get in their way and stop them. (Disclaimer - keep pandora a little bit back and with a sorrow or candy in b2b for martyr... and some soulstones)

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Your crew is a good start. A couple of things you might want to consider:

-I have found a primordial magic better than the poltergeist

-I have found pandora's crew is one that all needs to work in conjunction with each other. Basically Pandora in my experience is more of a mid line master than a back line master

-You should consider trying to fit in Candy if you can. The healing and speed she brings to pandora is quite nice.

I will have a look at her again- i preferred cade and madnesses' at 1st glance- why no you rate her so much, out of interest?

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I'm in the process of learning the ropes with Pandora as well. Karn put together a really helpful tactica doc for her, if you have not gotten on the mailing list yet we can post the link for that thread.

I have run her with mostly the starter box and sometimes a teddy so far. Candy has always been worth her points, the healing and the extra casting of self loathing are invaluable.

The doppelganger is on the painting bench, but I've heard great things about her.

In general, Pandora's crew is very deceptive in how much damage they do. People will be faced with willpower duels and may not bother to cheat or soulstone to avoid taking 1 pt of damage, but those damage points can add up quick.

Depending on the strategy, your opponent may be better off avoiding your crew and accomplishing the scenario. I played against her the other day with the vikis and had supply wagon. If the vikis had focused just on destroying the supply wagon they might have pulled off the win, but I made the noob mistake of trying to kill pandora or the kids. The lesson: get in your opponents face and make him fight your crew in Pandora's 12" bubble, and it will hurt. Worry about the scenario and how your death of a thousand cuts crew is going to get in their way and stop them. (Disclaimer - keep pandora a little bit back and with a sorrow or candy in b2b for martyr... and some soulstones)

Clcl, thanks for the info. Again, Candy has alot of neg press, yet u and tweak rate her;could u ellaborate as there may well be something I have missed!

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Candy does cost you some stones, but she brings alot to the table.

She has a good number of wounds, and a high Defense. Her sweets are helpful if Pandora, Candy, or Teddy get hurt and need a little healing. There's not much else in the crew that can heal everyone (and you can mimic this w doppelganger if u need to as well). You could also put a sorrow on her for martyr and have some decent protection (watch out for blasts though, cuz the sorrow's easy to hit)

Her "run away home" ability is really helpful on certain boards indoor and city boards mostly. As she can grab objectives and pass through walls or terrain.

Lastly, sometimes that last self loathing or two comes in handy big time to put down an enemy model. Plus, she's a casting expert.

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Candy does cost you some stones, but she brings alot to the table.

She has a good number of wounds, and a high Defense. Her sweets are helpful if Pandora, Candy, or Teddy get hurt and need a little healing. There's not much else in the crew that can heal everyone (and you can mimic this w doppelganger if u need to as well). You could also put a sorrow on her for martyr and have some decent protection (watch out for blasts though, cuz the sorrow's easy to hit)

Her "run away home" ability is really helpful on certain boards indoor and city boards mostly. As she can grab objectives and pass through walls or terrain.

Lastly, sometimes that last self loathing or two comes in handy big time to put down an enemy model. Plus, she's a casting expert.

Thankyou for presenting the other side of the coin- I will post up what I end up choosing!

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I will. I intend to give her a go over the xmas holidays- its just establishing my starting point. Im playing freikorps, Colette, Hamelin, Kirai and la croixs more than anything else, and Liliths doing me proud. Its just nice to have a diff crew to play, and not have my opponents putting all my success down to lilith alone!!!! Thanks for the advice Doc!

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I got your PM and I'm working to stabalize all the Tactica's before I send them out again, so Ill have it to you soon.

But I think everyone already hit the nail on the head, you want your crew to synergize with Pandora. Basically, you want minions that have Wp duel causing effects or modify Wp duels in their many forms. Some good examples are obviously Madness, but Stitched Togethers are another lethal choice. Coppelius is a very very nice duel role model in that he has some Wp duel effects (and makes fleeing near him very nasty) and is also a potent melee monster. Duel models like this are essential against crews like the Ortega's or other Wp resistant crews (freikorps etc).

It is true, Pandora works well with 90% melee minions to. But I have not found these to match up to her Wp focused crews. But if you like the sound of her with the Rider and Nephilim, heck go for what makes ya happy man.

As for Totems, Im not sure what I prefer. I usually don't take one with her or if I do, I take the Primordial Magic as that ability on her totem, Persistent Distraction, is a bit buggy when some other effects come into play and so I tend to avoid using it. But the Vomit Worm is very nice, good Ca and all the suits you need.

On Candy, she is VERY good for Treasure Hunt. Grab the Treasure and Run Away Home through the wall of a building =). But in a down right slug fest, she can still hold her own. But some times you can find other uses for her points, all depends. You will find that a lot, all of her models (except Sorrows) are very situational in their most potent uses. So you can varry up your crew and still have a deadly, working crew nearly every game.

But one near auto include if you wish to go Wp focused, Doppelganger. Mimic Emotional Trauma and really whatever else you want and then hide, you basically double Pandora's damage, its wonderful =)

But yeah, bob and weave. Don't stand their and slug it out unless you have an advantage on the Wp duels. Her crew really is not tough at all and most have terrible Df and next to no defensive abilities. Though Lilitu's have nearly the same defensive measure as she does (wp vs wp to target) so you can capitalize on that as another source of Wp duels.

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Many thanks (yeat again!) Karn!

I have been really pondering this, and yeah, your def right about the variety she has. And yeah, a Wp crew would make a nice change from Lilith's hitty-hitty style! But also believe in a 'plan z' ( i prefer this to 'plan b' as it normally means im about to lose or put on a great comeback) so some Melee capability would be good

So essientially a primoridal magic if at all, totem wise.

(I also sent a Q on outcast page- you said sorrows are good now; does this mean they are 'fixed' or something else?)

hmmmmmm does the mimic emotional trauma create a bigger bubble, or stack with Pandoras? (im thinking if you mimic one of her defensive triggers too this would be cool...)

I have ordered a dopple as model is great and I love the look of her, but may wait to include her after I have had some practice with a more generic/standard crew.

I have always loved the look and model of coppelius. Would he and the L of S box (minus 1 sorrow) make a viable starting 30ss crew? Might be my preferred option, or a Teddy instead (although I plan to won both models)Possible combos would seem to be:

Im thinking Kade and a Teddy, Kade and Candy, or Candy and Coppelius would be my 1st 3 pairings (I may be wrong..) Coppelius, Candy, a sorrow (or a terror tot~?) 2 madnesses and a PM totem comes to 30ss, could I start with that,realistically speaking? Or maybe even Kade, Candy, Coppelius and 2 Sorrows?

Alternative is, of course a more book 1 common L of S box, minus 1 sorrow and + Teddy (or as above Coppleius.

Which is best to START from for a new Pandora player...? Once I startI may find my own Pah but all journeys (in this case a 30ss, largely playing colette and various outcast crews and Kirai-btw are spirits immune to Wp duels?)

have to start somewhere!

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Aw.. McDoogle do you have to do Pandora, about 90% of the games I've had in Cambridge have been against Pandora, I'm getting bored of her.

I also play Lilith and have a Mcmorning crew I am keeping out of sentiment, and sorry Ratty old chum, 'born is where I'm at and will also be doing Z at some point ( i like the whole wyrd sisters thing)

I play with 3 guys mainly, 1 is doing outcasts and Sheamus, 1 does everything, mainly guild and Kirai and 1 does Arcanists. Makes sense for me to do Pandora then Z, although I will be running mine with Collodi when he comes out. Im tempeted by Kaeris, who I may do, and will do LJ or Perdita as well. But not yet baby-those crews are more for enjoyment and painting-

Who do u rock??

Its good to be 'born!!!

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I've just started Z, she looks interesting and I do like Neverborn. It's just I've played Pandora FAR too much. McD is very cool I like him a lot, I will definitely get on to doing him sometime. When can you and your mates meet up, I haven't had a game in a couple of weeks as people are doing Christmas, BAH Humbug.

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I will sort out a game against u when i finish for the term. I warn you tho, I only really play for fun!!! I dont play like I used to play 400pts 40k.....

I think it's the way to play Malifaux, you can't get too serious, especially while the rules are in flux like they are at the moment.

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Many thanks (yeat again!) Karn!

I have been really pondering this, and yeah, your def right about the variety she has. And yeah, a Wp crew would make a nice change from Lilith's hitty-hitty style! But also believe in a 'plan z' ( i prefer this to 'plan b' as it normally means im about to lose or put on a great comeback) so some Melee capability would be good

So essientially a primoridal magic if at all, totem wise.

(I also sent a Q on outcast page- you said sorrows are good now; does this mean they are 'fixed' or something else?)

hmmmmmm does the mimic emotional trauma create a bigger bubble, or stack with Pandoras? (im thinking if you mimic one of her defensive triggers too this would be cool...)

I have ordered a dopple as model is great and I love the look of her, but may wait to include her after I have had some practice with a more generic/standard crew.

I have always loved the look and model of coppelius. Would he and the L of S box (minus 1 sorrow) make a viable starting 30ss crew? Might be my preferred option, or a Teddy instead (although I plan to won both models)Possible combos would seem to be:

Im thinking Kade and a Teddy, Kade and Candy, or Candy and Coppelius would be my 1st 3 pairings (I may be wrong..) Coppelius, Candy, a sorrow (or a terror tot~?) 2 madnesses and a PM totem comes to 30ss, could I start with that,realistically speaking? Or maybe even Kade, Candy, Coppelius and 2 Sorrows?

Alternative is, of course a more book 1 common L of S box, minus 1 sorrow and + Teddy (or as above Coppleius.

Which is best to START from for a new Pandora player...? Once I startI may find my own Pah but all journeys (in this case a 30ss, largely playing colette and various outcast crews and Kirai-btw are spirits immune to Wp duels?)

have to start somewhere!

Link was fixed, check the Extra Errata post in the Rules section. We have back the old end time and ability to link multiple models to a single mode. This is why Im taking so long to do my Pandora update, need to rework a good bulk of it for this =D

Mimicing Pandora's Emotional Trauma is a good idea because both will work at the same time. There is no "stacking" effect from them because they are just not that kind of thing, damage/wds is not a stacking effect. So overlaping coverage = 2 wds per failed wp duel (1 from each source). Add in Sorrows for Emotional Stress wounds and Wd loss piles up really fast.

The best start you can possibly have is take the starter box and play 25ss with that. You will learn her mechanics very quickly and figure out how she needs to work from that. If you want to go for 30ss, add in a Madness or some other small support. But I would say, keep it simple and go with the starter box up front and mod from there. There really is no bad crew with Pandora as long as you have at least a few models to capitalize on the Wp duel mechanics she has.

So have at it! Jump in and give it a try. When I get the Tactica out, that will give you pages of stuff to read about this, don't want to repeat myself here to much =D

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Link was fixed, check the Extra Errata post in the Rules section. We have back the old end time and ability to link multiple models to a single mode. This is why Im taking so long to do my Pandora update, need to rework a good bulk of it for this =D

Mimicing Pandora's Emotional Trauma is a good idea because both will work at the same time. There is no "stacking" effect from them because they are just not that kind of thing, damage/wds is not a stacking effect. So overlaping coverage = 2 wds per failed wp duel (1 from each source). Add in Sorrows for Emotional Stress wounds and Wd loss piles up really fast.

The best start you can possibly have is take the starter box and play 25ss with that. You will learn her mechanics very quickly and figure out how she needs to work from that. If you want to go for 30ss, add in a Madness or some other small support. But I would say, keep it simple and go with the starter box up front and mod from there. There really is no bad crew with Pandora as long as you have at least a few models to capitalize on the Wp duel mechanics she has.

So have at it! Jump in and give it a try. When I get the Tactica out, that will give you pages of stuff to read about this, don't want to repeat myself here to much =D

Sir yes sir! Crew arrived today so msy even give her a bash tomorrow. Great coincidence (or the nerverborn fates...) that I have a game tomo, crew arrives, and you give me the best news about link!!!!! (Bounces of a few walls)

With link fixed will def start with the original crew (thats what its designed for after all!!!!) Will put in another sorrow and primordial magic or a madness.

I also have a teddy, a dopple ganger and a poltergiest to choose from as I go (obviously will buy when avaliable!!!)

WOW doppleganger layeth the smack down in this crew! Sorry for the bad wording, I meant inflicts 2 WDs, just using wrong terminology!!!!!

Eagerly awaiting the tactica, and honestly thanks as always for the advice.

Your Neverborn Padawan, McDoogle

Edited by McDoogle
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Link was fixed, check the Extra Errata post in the Rules section. We have back the old end time and ability to link multiple models to a single mode. This is why Im taking so long to do my Pandora update, need to rework a good bulk of it for this =D

If anyone can help with his ASAP it would be greatly appreciated.....

Have looked. I take it he second post by weird sketch has over ruled the first ruling , as I have trawled thorugh all the errata and cannot see anything specific. In short, i take that:

A)More than 1 Sorrow can link to Pandora at a time

B)This link allows them to move into base to base with her WHENEVER she is moved, including her pushes

C)I cannot choose to end this link, it keeps going until (please see D)

D)This link lasts until the beginning of the sorrows NEXT ACTIVATION. (or is it the end close phase???)

I'm only eager to know as will possibly use her tomo night... Am I correct in these, and am I missing anything?

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If anyone can help with his ASAP it would be greatly appreciated.....

Have looked. I take it he second post by weird sketch has over ruled the first ruling , as I have trawled thorugh all the errata and cannot see anything specific. In short, i take that:

A)More than 1 Sorrow can link to Pandora at a time

B)This link allows them to move into base to base with her WHENEVER she is moved, including her pushes

C)I cannot choose to end this link, it keeps going until (please see D)

D)This link lasts until the beginning of the sorrows NEXT ACTIVATION. (or is it the end close phase???)

I'm only eager to know as will possibly use her tomo night... Am I correct in these, and am I missing anything?

You are missing alot I'm afraid :S

As per the latest change A) is correct, but that is the only point.

B) - Linking models are pushed into base contact after the model they're linked to finishes the Wk action or ends her activation.

So unless you spend AP walking Pandora will not drag Sorrows along with her untill after her activation. Ie. they don't move when she's using Fading Memory.

C/D) The link ends whenever they're not in base contact at the start closing phase. All you need to do to end it is to move either Pandora or the Sorrow after Pandora have had her activation that turn.

Edit:

The correct link is the one that has been edited a few times in the extra errata thread. But it should be solid now and working as intended.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?p=140465#post140465

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You are missing alot I'm afraid :S

As per the latest change A) is correct, but that is the only point.

B) - Linking models are pushed into base contact after the model they're linked to finishes the Wk action or ends her activation.

So unless you spend AP walking Pandora will not drag Sorrows along with her untill after her activation. Ie. they don't move when she's using Fading Memory.

C/D) The link ends whenever they're not in base contact at the start closing phase. All you need to do to end it is to move either Pandora or the Sorrow after Pandora have had her activation that turn.

Edit:

The correct link is the one that has been edited a few times in the extra errata thread. But it should be solid now and working as intended.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?p=140465#post140465

Wodschow beat me to it all *shakes fist* ;D

All spot on =D

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You are missing alot I'm afraid :S

As per the latest change A) is correct, but that is the only point.

B) - Linking models are pushed into base contact after the model they're linked to finishes the Wk action or ends her activation.

So unless you spend AP walking Pandora will not drag Sorrows along with her untill after her activation. Ie. they don't move when she's using Fading Memory.

C/D) The link ends whenever they're not in base contact at the start closing phase. All you need to do to end it is to move either Pandora or the Sorrow after Pandora have had her activation that turn.

Edit:

The correct link is the one that has been edited a few times in the extra errata thread. But it should be solid now and working as intended.

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?p=140465#post140465

As usual!!!!lol

Thanks to you both for your timely replies!

So A) was all good......

B)Sorrow can move to base to base with Pandora (but not the other way round...) when she makes a walk or ends her activation.

So, for e.g. if I use incite twice and then walk I CAN or MUST summon sorrow?? Can I choose to leave sorrows- i,e, effectively move them for free when Pandora moves, or MUST they always use this ability when possible?

And I CAN use all of her actions, and then move the sorrows into base to base as soon as her activation ends for "free", for want of a better term?

I apologize if i appear slow, I have never used this (seemingly complex!) rule before...

for C/D The link:

1)stays active until they are no longer in B-2-B at start of end close phase only, so I could push Pandora away again, push her back and the link is restored...? Or I can move Sorrows into base to base at the ned of her activation to keep it alive, right???

But the link itself stays active over the transition between turns....

If thats all correct (which I doubt) I think im nearly there...

In essence it means woes can stay in base to base with Pandora to a)keep her defences up and running and b)inflict extra WP wounds and can link to enemies to cast their abilties, inlfict wounds and block LofS....

Hope ive got it now :s

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As usual!!!!lol

Thanks to you both for your timely replies!

So A) was all good......

B)Sorrow can move to base to base with Pandora (but not the other way round... correct) when she makes a walk or ends her activation.

So, for e.g. if I use incite twice and then walk I CAN or MUST summon sorrow?? Can I choose to leave sorrows- i,e, effectively move them for free when Pandora moves, or MUST they always use this ability when possible?

Whenever Pandora finishes a move or ends her activation you must move the linked Sorrows into base contact with her. (I suppose this is argueable, but I see no ambiguity in the rules and Wyrd have generally added a 'may' when something is voluntary, thus my answer.)

And I CAN use all of her actions, and then move the sorrows into base to base as soon as her activation ends for "free", for want of a better term?

Yes, in fact you must do this.

I apologize if i appear slow, I have never used this (seemingly complex!) rule before...

for C/D The link:

1)stays active until they are no longer in B-2-B at start of end close phase only, so I could push Pandora away again, push her back and the link is restored...? Or I can move Sorrows into base to base at the ned of her activation to keep it alive, right???

Yes, I might've been a bit unclear about explaining this before. As long as the models are in base contact at the start closing phase Link is retained, regardless of what happened during the turn.

I simply meant that if you want to end link, all you need to do is move them apart after Pandoras activation (as if you do it before they'll zip together when she finishes it).

But the link itself stays active over the transition between turns....

If thats all correct (which I doubt) I think im nearly there...

In essence it means woes can stay in base to base with Pandora to a)keep her defences up and running and b)inflict extra WP wounds and can link to enemies to cast their abilties, inlfict wounds and block LofS....

Yes! That's the strong and intended synergy in the Legion of Sorrow.

Hope ive got it now :s

(red text mine)

Hope this clears the last bits up :)

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