Kirai Questions

[MisfitAngel]

I had a few questions running my kirai and I'm hoping that the answers I'm thinking of will keep me from getting stomped by everyone but gremlins. OK, here's what I got:

1) Do I have to pay for the models I summon from say the datsue-ba's weigh sins, or Kirai's evolve spirit spells in order to play them, or can I stop paying for 6 stones worth of gakis that limit me to only being able to summon 2 until one of them die? basically are the summons Kirai can do free stones?

2)The Gaki's Devour Anything spell, do I sacrifice an opponents HT 1 model? I'm hoping cause otherwise what's the point?

3) What's the point of the Seishin's fragile connection and why bother canceling it?

Any help would be greatly appreciated, but if it turns out I'm interpreting them right and still getting stomped, oh well, love her crew. Thanks

[LoboStele]

1) Do I have to pay for the models I summon from say the datsue-ba's weigh sins, or Kirai's evolve spirit spells in order to play them, or can I stop paying for 6 stones worth of gakis that limit me to only being able to summon 2 until one of them die? basically are the summons Kirai can do free stones?

Summoning cost only the actions and any counters or anything that the spell/ability requires. You only pay Soulstones for newly summoned models if the ability says to (reference Colette's Trick of the Hat to summon a Mechanical Dove)

2)The Gaki's Devour Anything spell, do I sacrifice an opponents HT 1 model? I'm hoping cause otherwise what's the point?

You sacrifice any target Ht 1 model. It can be friendly or enemy. There aren't many Ht 1 models, which makes using your Seishin to do this pretty sweet.

3) What's the point of the Seishin's fragile connection and why bother canceling it?

Fragile connection can be pretty sweet depending on your opponent's crew/stratgies/schemes. Seishin can basically count as either 'killed' or 'sacrificed' depending on what you want, which have distinctly different effects in the game. One of the first tricks is the connection between Kirai's Spirit Anchor and Seishin Beacon. Using both of those together basically means that the Seishin are unkillable. Normally, if a Seishin is reduced to 0 Wds, then it is considered Sacrificed. However, if you activate Seishin Beacon first, then the Seishin's now count as killed, which in turn will trigger Spirit Anchor, and any time a Seishin is killed, then a new one is immediately summoned rigt back to Kirai.

Then on top of all that, you utilize the Seishin's ability to bodygaurd Kirai and take damage that would normally be inflicted to her, and basically what happens is that a Seishin takes ALL the damage being directed at Kirai (imagine somebody getting a Red Joker + Severe!), which kills the Seishin. Kirai takes only 1 Wd, and a new Seishin is immediately summoned back into play. Absolutely brutal.

[MisfitAngel]

. . . W O W . . .:twitch: I've been getting completely screwed by some people. I've just now fallen in complete love. HAHA Thanks for the help. now I can last more than 2 turns. I was using Kirai, Ikiryo, 2 seishin, 2 gakis, a datsue-ba, and an onryo. Only ever put Kirai, seishins, and the datsue-ba on the table, and never lasted to summon anything else. You just brightened my week. LOL.

[Cambeul]

Also I believe say if you got a Shikome that are Rare2 you can only purchase 2 for your crew. But if you summon one you could have potentially three on the table and so on as well.

[Ratty]

Also I believe say if you got a Shikome that are Rare2 you can only purchase 2 for your crew. But if you summon one you could have potentially three on the table and so on as well.

Nope the Rare Total is the maximum you can have on the board, so you can't summon a 3rd Shikome if you have 2 on the board, Unfortunately.

Note however that Kirai's Rare 1 on hiring non-spirits is on hiring, they go back to their original criteria after the game starts, So if you hire Sebastian you can summon more than 1 dog, or if you hire Stolen (Which are not Unique, that was a mistake in the book) you can have more than 1 rat in play when they die.

1) Do I have to pay for the models I summon from say the datsue-ba's weigh sins, or Kirai's evolve spirit spells in order to play them, or can I stop paying for 6 stones worth of gakis that limit me to only being able to summon 2 until one of them die? basically are the summons Kirai can do free stones?

You only have to pay for spirits that start on the board. Summoned ones are free.

[hippieshopper]

That summoning rule...

That you don't pay for them goes for everything that summons, not just Kirai.

You never have to pay for summoned models, save for the spell...

Just in case you play...Nico, McM, Seamus, Som'er, Ramos...etc

Just Captain Obvious coming for a visit...that's all

[Necromorph]

I guess I'm gonna :tj: and ask another question about Kirai. I'm new to the game, and I have a Levi crew currently, but something about Kirai's crew appeals to me as well. However, the people that I have been playing with all seem to bad things to say about her, and how her crew is "really underwhelming." I guess from what she comes with right out of the box I can see that, her starting crew from the box is kinda average, and it seems like you'd need some more Senshin and Gaki's to make it work.

My question is, is she really inferior, or just hard to use effectively?

[yames]

I guess I'm gonna :tj: and ask another question about Kirai. I'm new to the game, and I have a Levi crew currently, but something about Kirai's crew appeals to me as well. However, the people that I have been playing with all seem to bad things to say about her, and how her crew is "really underwhelming." I guess from what she comes with right out of the box I can see that, her starting crew from the box is kinda average, and it seems like you'd need some more Senshin and Gaki's to make it work.

My question is, is she really inferior, or just hard to use effectively?

i started with kirai and i completely disagree with the underwhelming thow her box set is almost impossible to use on its own.

she really shines in here abilty to move herself and others around the map. alot of spirits ignore armor and all take half damage from non magical sources.

she does however take some getting use to and she is very squishy

i would consider her not op but up there in one of the top masters if played well

[tenabrae]

You never have to pay for summoned models, save for the spell...

This isn't strictly true. There are a few models you have to hire and are put on the table through play effects e.g. killjoy, bete noir, mechanical dove.

[Ratty]

I guess I'm gonna :tj: and ask another question about Kirai. I'm new to the game, and I have a Levi crew currently, but something about Kirai's crew appeals to me as well. However, the people that I have been playing with all seem to bad things to say about her, and how her crew is "really underwhelming." I guess from what she comes with right out of the box I can see that, her starting crew from the box is kinda average, and it seems like you'd need some more Senshin and Gaki's to make it work.

My question is, is she really inferior, or just hard to use effectively?

Kirai is amazingly good if you know what your doing with her. I've had to get a second crew as I'm worried about putting people off playing me. With Jack Daw, the proper amount of Scenery and good spacial awareness, you can more or less assassinate anything in the game. The last couple of games I have almost completely taken out a Sonnia Criid and Pandora crew (2 of her hardest matchups) with hardly any losses. However if you make mistakes you REALLY feel it.

She can be very fun to play, she has an awful lot of movement tricks.

The starter box is OK, there is nothing in there you won't want. It just not really enough to play her well (or at all, really)

This is my current crew. I feel it's actually quite close to the minimum you need. It probably has 2 or 3 Onryo more than you need, but the Gaki are on the borderline of too few. (I also have Jack Daw and 2 Hanged, though they are not essential, Jack Daw is fairly amazing)

Edited December 6, 2010 by Ratty

[Stryder]

Kirai typically only really has any real trouble against the following masters:

1. Rasputina - Most of her stuff are constructs or have frozen heart, meaning you can't terrify them away and they don't give you Seishin when they die.

2. Viktoria - NEVER let blademistress get near Kirai...she will whirlwind all your Seishin in just 1 round of attacks.

3. Pandora - Just like everyone else...

But Kirai will stomp over pretty much everything else and usually come out on top. I have played against guild crews numerous times and never lost (had a few draws though), and against any other ressurectionist crew she just summons faster. Leveticus has no chance against Kirai (she just out-activates him then whips up an Ikiriyo to batter his Hollow Waif). Gremlins just run away screaming while Kirai vs Hamelin is the proverbial 'never-ending battle'.

Arcanists and Neverborn are Kirai's main 'rivals', as they either have magic or are immune to scary stuff, though having Nekima run away from a Terrifying 10 Onryo (as I have done with a little help from that annoying **** Jack Daw as my opponents tend to call him) is just funny...

[Necromorph]

Thanks for the replies guys (and nice painting, Ratty)...I feel like I'm always drawn toward the hardest crews to play (Levi is tough to get down for a new player, especially coming from 40k and Infinity...totally different mechanics).

I might have to pick up that Freikorps crew I've been oogling over just to get the basics of the game down. They seem fairly straightforward (not "Ortega's" straighforward, but more so than Levi or Kirai) especially if you throw the Victorias in. Then I can go back and mess with the more challenging masters. Then again sticking with it would mean that when I do get the game and the complex masters down I'll be in a better frame of mind about the game but who knows.

[Ratty]

I started with Kirai, it wasn't that bad tbh. Managed to panel beat Pandora in my first game, it turns out Kirai's learning curve isn't as bad as Pandora's. I was playing against someone who had just changed from Somah to Pandora and it was his first game with her.

[Peterdita]

Question: When Lost love transforms something into a spirit: I understand that the model gains spirit and loses half its remaining wounds.

Is that model's max wounds the half amount or can it be healed back up to its orignal amount?

For example: can I spirit up a Punk zombie and drop its Wds from 6 to 3. Then heal it back up to 6 WDs?

(I think yes, but just wanted to get a ruling, as people have challenged me on it.)

thanks!

[Ratty]

Yeah you can heal back up to full wounds. You need a decent hand if you want to do it with the Lost Love though.

[Peterdita]

or Kirai or Datsue-ba

thanks, thats what I thought.

[MisfitAngel]

I've played a couple games with jack daw and he hasn't even come close to being worth the 9 stones for me. How would I run him properly with kirai? I've found my list using the rider (changed first turn to spirit), lost love, datsue-ba, a shikome and 5 sheishin right off the back work for me. I'm also having a SERIOUS problem even hurting perdita or any of her family. Any thoughts?

[Ratty]

I've played a couple games with jack daw and he hasn't even come close to being worth the 9 stones for me. How would I run him properly with kirai? I've found my list using the rider (changed first turn to spirit), lost love, datsue-ba, a shikome and 5 sheishin right off the back work for me. I'm also having a SERIOUS problem even hurting perdita or any of her family. Any thoughts?

I posted this up in the Kirai: Tactica. I use him most games with her, he always makes his points back.

Advanced Tactica, Some strategies that have worked for me.

Dead zone.

Works against: Small Elite forces that rely on cheating and soulstones to get in their most damaging attack. I have made a mess of Pandora multiple times with this list.

What you need: Jack Daw and hopefully a Hanged. I prefer to run with a large number of Seishin as you need activation advantage and you will not be getting many back from the opponent. I rarely seem to be in 8" of the enemy when they get killed, so don't rely on refilling. Night Terrors or Insidious Madnesses will work well with this army too.

You also need to be able to judge distances very well, with this list an inch makes all the difference.

Aim: The aim is to take out their heavy hitters as fast as you can.

Tactic: Early on you want to use Seishin to draw out your opponents models. Try to keep Jack Daw, Kirai and a fast model like Night Terror back until after they have finished their activations, but activate Jack Daw first out of these if you need to, make sure you activate his anti-cheating aura. Race your fast moving model up so it is between 6" and 10" away from the model your planning on killing, preferably hidden out of view. Into the Spirit World with Kirai to this position. Swirl Jack Daw into the place of the fast model. then summon Ikiryo the other side of the model your trying to assassinate at the limit of his close combat attack. If Jack Daw is more than 6" away from the model, get Ikiryo to pull him forward so he is just close enough that the model is affected by Jack Daws aura but Ikiryo isn't. Then Activate Ikiryo to attack it, you can cheat as much as you want but they can't cheat at all, hopefully you can activate his combat trigger and do enough damage to kill the model this turn.

Winning Initiative is quite important so spend the soulstone if necessary. Plunge Jack Daw into the center of their forces so they can't cheat, preferably into a position where a couple of their models are at the extent of his Aura. Don't worry too much about Ikiryo, If he dies he dies.

Carry on this way using your spirits as place holders for the position you need Jack Daw to be in to negate their defence. Attack with Ikiryo, then eat and resummon her if you can as this allows you to cycle to get decent cards which will allow the Jack Daw / Ikiryo tag team to kill something each turn (and allow Ikiryo to get 2 activations a turn). You should not be trying to summon otherwise.

Because they can't cheat to charge Kirai (pitiful) she should be reasonably safe, they probably have to move out of Jack Daws aura to attack her. Saying that if you can keep her out of sight do it, it will save you cards.

If you start getting low on cards eat a Seishin to top up your hand.

[MisfitAngel]

Thanks!

[Ratty]

There are other uses for him though. Last game I positioned him between my crew and the Viktorias, popped his Non Cheating Aura and placed a couple of Onryo, Hanged and Datsu-ba between us. Viktoria tried to get to Kirai and ended up legging it.

[Cpeerson]

Quick question about Kirai's abilities and the way this would play out;

Into the Spirit World says she turns into a spirit, is she a spirit for the rest of the encounter or does it end at the closing phase? It never states when it ends.

If Kirai uses the above to turn her into a spirit can she use Soothe spirit on herself? For that matter if any model has an ability that states Target Friendly BLAHBLAHBLAH within 8" and then do this can the model doing the ability target itself?

These two questions have some up in our group often, not just for Kirai but other people with abilities like the above; i.e. Cassaundra's Southern Charm is one example.

[Ratty]

Quick question about Kirai's abilities and the way this would play out;

Into the Spirit World says she turns into a spirit, is she a spirit for the rest of the encounter or does it end at the closing phase? It never states when it ends.

Unless otherwise stated all abilities end in the closing phase

If Kirai uses the above to turn her into a spirit can she use Soothe spirit on herself? For that matter if any model has an ability that states Target Friendly BLAHBLAHBLAH within 8" and then do this can the model doing the ability target itself?

These two questions have some up in our group often, not just for Kirai but other people with abilities like the above; i.e. Cassaundra's Southern Charm is one example.

All models have LoS to themselves and count as within range for spells.

[Avarice711]

though remember pulses don't affect the model casting/using them but aura's do, figured i'd add my tidbit of info

[Q'iq'el]

Auras do? Really?

No book with me right now, I don't think I ever played Nicodem as being capable of Bolstering himself...

[Ratty]

Q'iq'el you were playing it right. Aura's do not affect the originator, thank the gods, Seamus lowering his Wp by 2 would not be good.

# Aura: Represents an ongoing circular range of

effect around a target, extending from the target's

base edge. All models within the effect's number

range, in inches, excluding the caster or effect

originating model, are affected for the duration

indicated in the effect's description. Models entering

the area immediately receive the effects; models

immediately lose the effects when they leave the

area. Auras move with their target unless otherwise

indicated in the description.