McDoogle meets Hamelin....

[M_Ruckuss]

Just had a 30ss scrap with Hamelin. I know theres benn a lot of chat but I havent needed to pay attention....until now.

Lilith, Nekima, 2 Tots, cherub anf lilitu.

1)Blight counters-ouch

2) Does Nix REALLY get an extar wound for every failed duel (combat/resistance/defence etc) so every time I get attackedmand succeed or fail he gains wounds?

He tied up a lelu. lilitu and lilith (althoughI know I playe dit wrong)

(( 3)I am starting to see the limitations of only taking a lilitu and not a lelu against some crews. However, list selection is a bit different from tac/rules advice ))

4) Is the way to beat hamelin to go after the rat catchers first, bosh them (having tied up Nix somehow) then try to a-strike any stolen within 3 of Hamelin and Hamelin himself???

I had to kill Hamelin for my strategy, and took schemes to match which left me on nil points.

I attacked-mistake as Lilith needs to hit and run and need to somehow divide his bubbles (I am aware that Lilitu is perfect for this, and had toyed with the idea of very reluctantly dropping Nekima for this one list, taking 2 lilitu and 1 lelu with either 3 tots or 1 tot and a young.

Activate Lilith, companion Lilitu1. Activate lelu, activate lilitu2. Lure rat catcher and smack him good.Repeat (or if posssible just lure hamelin and kill him while out of range of the stolen. Same with Nix.

These are just my rambelled ideas, am looking for any lilith based suggestions (and any feedback on Black Blood Shamens and hooded riders, as have found a proxy/bought model for both. I like BBS with tots and Nekima- grow grow grow- and would like to know how to get best out of hooded rider.

Regards, McDoogle

[deadboy]

How are you keeping lilitu alive without Lelu? Just keep her away from any other damage?

[M_Ruckuss]

Regen 1 from Nekima, heals 2 on herself in resolve steps.

[oozeboss]

Tactica should be the start of an exploration of a crew rather than the ultimate destination. Were the latter to become the norm, crew selection would shrink to the barest minimum of orbats & tactics would be repetitive to the point of being terminally tedious.

It would also make even our game - in fact, any game or life experience - as dull as dogmeat, for in such a monochrome reality only the original trailblazer would have dined on the rich & fulfilling experiences that springs forth from the alternating heartache and exaltation omnipresent in the wondrously mercurial process of Trial + Error.

We are immensely lucky in this particular Coven of Neverborn to be blessed with many generous, wise & articulate enthusiasts, among whom Karn987 & Rathnard especially deserve all due kudos, but as good as they are, ultimately only you can travel your own path.

Take that path, have the courage to hit the inevitable dead ends & speed bumps along the way, and then relish that ultimate and most rewarding moment when you experience your epiphany and finally begin to comprehend how you can play your crew in your game your way, for your greatest satisfaction and fulfillment!

It will be then that you most likely comprehend that it is the journey itself which is the whole point of this game (and, if we want to go really OTT, of life itself), and that the destination is but a lighthouse by which we navigate our course.

(Then return to this Coven and share that journey, that we may exult with you and that others yet to come may use your experiences as their starting point for their journey of discovery.)

And now for the dancing marshmellows:

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell:marshmell

[M_Ruckuss]

Right.... I can respect that view. Subjectivity is something that may be missing here. For instance, I spend the majoriity of my day, a good 14 hours at the moment sharing my experiences and teaching others or preparing to do so. So firstly, its actually nice to experience the other side of the coin. Secondly this is further highlighted by the fact I lieterally do not have the time to sit down and do the trial by error stuff. I have one game a week if I'm lucky with no time at all for any of my hobbies during the week at all.

I understand the enjoyment of "finding your own path", I've always done that. However, no man is an Island and experience and knowledge should be something that you develop in any way at any time. I greatly appreciate any suggestions I am given, and then explore them. I also however take the models I like; I always start with tots as there my favourite models. And on that note I always pick a crew and master before strategies are chosen to "experience" different crews and NOT tailor each one to the exact mission I am playing. I love the BBS and want to take him (to the point Ive paid a relatively silly amount for a nice proxy). I would just like to know how others are finding him

I do get your point about original experience, but again to return to my earlier point subjectively I cannot make the time for this to apply to me. When I was a kid it took me longer to do anything than my siblings because of this. Now between work, physio and other hobbies and commitments Malifaux is something I enjoy but can only partake of to a certain degree in terms of literal time I have to enjoy and experience this. For that reason I ask others to share, and I try to bring my meager offerings to the table as well (original post).

Journey of discovery??? Done enough of that in life my friend and whole hearedly diagree with you about the ultimate meaning of life. Experiencing everything to the fullest-great, I agree, do It where possible. MY goal in life is to treat others well and have fun....so for me malifaux is all abouta good game, which I canno currently give my opponent when he uses Hamelin. My favourite outcome is a narrow loss where I've been a pain in the ass but great fun to play-i've done the whole tournament winning thing and its not my style.

When did anyone walk a path alone? Thats your choice pal, I find it when you look back and see one set of footprints, someone else has usually been carrying you, or your the type of dark place that causes problems. But thats my experience.

Courage? Dude its a boardgame, seriously. Time would be a better word, which is something i'll gladly take if someone works out how to make my day 36 hours long.

Have your playes Hamelin btw? Everyone always asks for help against named crews, ( i normally do not) and from what I see from other thread titles hes very hard to beat. All i asked for was a comment on a suggestion I made through "the experience I had"

I would say the best way to enjoy life is to change someone elses life for the better, and THEN one will truly experience the feeling you described.

Its been a genuine pleasure to exchange with you. It has also been very enlightening. As such, I apologise for misunderstanding the use of a hobby specific, open to the malifaux public, named faction general discussion board, and for any irritation I have caused to other members.

However, dancing Jelly babies would have been way cooler....

[karn987]

Just had a 30ss scrap with Hamelin. I know theres benn a lot of chat but I havent needed to pay attention....until now.

Lilith, Nekima, 2 Tots, cherub anf lilitu.

1)Blight counters-ouch

2) Does Nix REALLY get an extar wound for every failed duel (combat/resistance/defence etc) so every time I get attackedmand succeed or fail he gains wounds?

He tied up a lelu. lilitu and lilith (althoughI know I playe dit wrong)

(( 3)I am starting to see the limitations of only taking a lilitu and not a lelu against some crews. However, list selection is a bit different from tac/rules advice ))

4) Is the way to beat hamelin to go after the rat catchers first, bosh them (having tied up Nix somehow) then try to a-strike any stolen within 3 of Hamelin and Hamelin himself???

I had to kill Hamelin for my strategy, and took schemes to match which left me on nil points.

I attacked-mistake as Lilith needs to hit and run and need to somehow divide his bubbles (I am aware that Lilitu is perfect for this, and had toyed with the idea of very reluctantly dropping Nekima for this one list, taking 2 lilitu and 1 lelu with either 3 tots or 1 tot and a young.

Activate Lilith, companion Lilitu1. Activate lelu, activate lilitu2. Lure rat catcher and smack him good.Repeat (or if posssible just lure hamelin and kill him while out of range of the stolen. Same with Nix.

These are just my rambelled ideas, am looking for any lilith based suggestions (and any feedback on Black Blood Shamens and hooded riders, as have found a proxy/bought model for both. I like BBS with tots and Nekima- grow grow grow- and would like to know how to get best out of hooded rider.

Regards, McDoogle

1)) Yes very ouch, you need to avoid getting as many of these as possible. =D

2)) He does gain a wound, but only if they fail a duel within 2" of him. So yes, this means that you want to make sure you get a solid hit on him and drop him as fast as possible. Nix is not that tough and any of your moderate models should be able to drop him without a second thought. Just Lure Nix straight into Nekima or Lilith and crush him if he is so foolish as to come into your range =D

3)) Heh there is a big limitation as they really were built to function as a pair. But you'll iron out the creases in your list as you play more. You need to change up your crew here and there and some lists will as you know, be more/less effective against different masters.

4)) Yes, the way to beat Hamelin is to target his support units first. Im not sure what happened that caused Nix to be such an issue... can you elaborate more on this?

For Rat Catchers, just chain Lure them away. Because of the Rats Unfocused rule, when you lure a model they will be pulled through the rats as long as their base can end in the open. Bring them close enough so you can take them out, drain their blood, make bigger babies =) You can Drain Blood off of the kill as Voracious Rats was ruled not to cancel out this action (I think... I may be wrong, comb the Rule of Equiv threads =D). So kill the rat he leaves behind which I think will also give you a blood counter through Drain Blood, so probably have another Nephilim make the killing blow. NOTE: Blood Sense does not work on the death of these models, that I know for sure.

The hard part about dealing with Hamelin with Lilith is that you need to watch out for his spell that can make you Insignificant. So you need to strike from where he couldn't see you, hopefully performing an epic Alpha strike through Brood Mother. Hamelin's Wp 8 makes him a bad target for Lure or Transposition. So try to target either a Rat next to him, or better yet his Stolen. This way it is far away from him, you can kill it easily and if the Transpositioned model is say Lilith... you have 2 strikes on Hamelin and you SHOULD be able to kill him with that. Otherwise you may have some issue because of Hamelin's use SS and only Lilith on your side will have it.

But yeah, I can give you any help I can think of. Tell me what happened with Nix... because he never lasts long against me.

[M_Ruckuss]

1)) Yes very ouch, you need to avoid getting as many of these as possible. =D

2)) He does gain a wound, but only if they fail a duel within 2" of him. So yes, this means that you want to make sure you get a solid hit on him and drop him as fast as possible. Nix is not that tough and any of your moderate models should be able to drop him without a second thought. Just Lure Nix straight into Nekima or Lilith and crush him if he is so foolish as to come into your range =D

3)) Heh there is a big limitation as they really were built to function as a pair. But you'll iron out the creases in your list as you play more. You need to change up your crew here and there and some lists will as you know, be more/less effective against different masters.

4)) Yes, the way to beat Hamelin is to target his support units first. Im not sure what happened that caused Nix to be such an issue... can you elaborate more on this?

For Rat Catchers, just chain Lure them away. Because of the Rats Unfocused rule, when you lure a model they will be pulled through the rats as long as their base can end in the open. Bring them close enough so you can take them out, drain their blood, make bigger babies =) You can Drain Blood off of the kill as Voracious Rats was ruled not to cancel out this action (I think... I may be wrong, comb the Rule of Equiv threads =D). So kill the rat he leaves behind which I think will also give you a blood counter through Drain Blood, so probably have another Nephilim make the killing blow. NOTE: Blood Sense does not work on the death of these models, that I know for sure.

The hard part about dealing with Hamelin with Lilith is that you need to watch out for his spell that can make you Insignificant. So you need to strike from where he couldn't see you, hopefully performing an epic Alpha strike through Brood Mother. Hamelin's Wp 8 makes him a bad target for Lure or Transposition. So try to target either a Rat next to him, or better yet his Stolen. This way it is far away from him, you can kill it easily and if the Transpositioned model is say Lilith... you have 2 strikes on Hamelin and you SHOULD be able to kill him with that. Otherwise you may have some issue because of Hamelin's use SS and only Lilith on your side will have it.

But yeah, I can give you any help I can think of. Tell me what happened with Nix... because he never lasts long against me.

Lol, Blight counters are nasty-lost so many wounds!

Nix-he's a spirit so wounding him is tricky, and if i got a pants card he just get regening. I go him down to 1 wound 3 times, but he kept regening. He was surrounded by three bases of giant rats, which kept attacking, being sacrificed and getting another (with the ever present plus flip they get!) and I had to block them to stop Lilith getting Blight counters and being wounded. Even if I hadnt blocked them, either he or I failed a duel, so thats over 6 wounds he can regenerate a turn!!!

My 2 biggest faults is I keep forgetting to use Transposition and black blood properly.

As far as list selction, thats why I asked about the BBS and the hooded rider. HR is unknown quantity to me (but an awesome model so HAD to but one!) and I think this may be an instance of where the BBS would have been useful to re heal/ "suffer 2 wounds inflict 1" on nix/rat catchers.

I think that Nekima is not neccesairily at her best against Hamelin, but I may well be wrong. I think Lelu, Lilitu, a BBS, 2 terror Tots and a cherub may be the way to go against hamelin at 30ss.

Her lure, i think, i essential to knocking off the 2 rat catchers my opponent fields. No more rats to add blight counters, and eventually will be able to take out Nix. I think these are the linch pins to the crew, not Nix (although he is very nasty)

Th trouble is I love nekima, and she gives the tots that mask for grow. And she can makemy tots (and YN) flay. If I can get it, i also love the mask crow combo, great for finishing off, weakening characters before using the lose/inflict wounds ability.

In summary, the single lilitu works well enough im some games, but is more of a speciality tool. I feel the original Nekima, BBS, 3 tots and a cherub list works the best for me. However, I can easily include Lelu and lilitu too. Do u think I should try including nekima or the twins next time i play (or just go for both and a terror tot? Again, whats the rider like? He seems ok, but i would guess hes better suited to the other Neverborn masters....

In terms of transposition, I take it you target the stolen (especially if its the only one within 3) transpo it away then alpha strike Hamelin (my strategy- REALLY NOT EASY!!!! I should also have chosen kidnap and nomianted his 1st 3 rats-guranteed points as they are sacrificed turn 1!! That and steal relic (although his WP is very high)

Or transpo the rat catchers and kill them, i think this greatly weakend the crew as stolen are useless.

What do yout think Karn? Any sense in my ramblings?

[karn987]

Heh that was certainly a bit of a ramble man ;D but all good.

Against Hamelin I would recommend the twins over Nekima because she is a big target and if he makes her insignificant or hoses her down, its going to suck to lose her. The twins are twice the targets and about the same power. Plus Lilitu gives you Lure which as you know, is the perfect way to solve the issue of Rat Catchers, just pop your hip and wink ;D. So I would go with them over Nekima. Bring along a BBS for support and then some tots for some grow'n and mature'n.

I think Lilith, Lelu, Lilitu, cherub, and 2 tots would be the best way to go at him at 30ss for now. I would love to work in a BBS but you would be cutting off potential power to much. So give this a try and focus on avoiding combat and just Luring his lynch pins in untill you have weakened him enough to strike at his heart.

Nix is a pain in butt, I always forget he is spirit till I see him on the table. But to get rid of the this pain in the ass, the best solution is overkill. Lilitu should drag him away from the rats and just beat him down with a Bond activate Lelu who together should be able to crush him. Have Lilitu Paralyze him as soon as she drags him into Range and have Lelu bite and go for his trigger to cast his spell (which will do full damage to him) and down he will go.

For the rat swarms themselves, yeah that ca nbe an issue. You just gotta stay away from them untill you peal off their catchers. If they summon more catchers by pressing rats into men (i forget what the ability is called), just lure that one away. He is going to be slow, so just stay back and Lure them away. It will eat up turns, but if you position the rest of your crew till after the swarm is gone, your going to crush him. Once you get a clear shot, just slam everything you have into Hamelin and your YOUR HARDEST to get Lilitu to paralyze him. If he is Paralyzed, he is in big trouble as you have a turn on no retaliation from him.

Transpositioning his Stolen is always fun, and if you dont want to throw one of your own models where it was, switch the Stolen with the front most rat and then lure it to you, or just charge it.

If the swarm is getting up in your face, EarthQuake it away or move in for a Whirling Death attack when their are no Rat Catchers or Hamelin nearby.

But you really can't tackle Hamelin's crew head on like you can most other crews. You have to take it apart piece by piece and kill the Lynch pins.

So your targets should be:

1) Rat catchers

2) Nix

3) Stolen

4) Hamelin

Of course if you get a shot at the stolen early on or can drop Nix quickly, do it. But without Rat Catchers, Hamelin is rather tame.

Btw if you ever get the chance and want to do a risky but fun thing, Transposition Hamelin with a Tot and have your whole crew go at him. Hamelin is not weak, but much easier to deal with when not surrounded by his crew.

[Doctor Amos]

Haemlin; like Pandora, the Dreamer, Hoffman, and others, prefers to walk in a big ugly block of troops. Lilith is not quite as hindered by this and can happily send scouts or raiding groups. Use her mobility and flexability to your advantage in completing schemes. Haemlin is fast, but his rats are not. You should be able to run around him as long as you don't try and stick in.

[Natty]

Haemlin; like Pandora, the Dreamer, Hoffman, and others, prefers to walk in a big ugly block of troops.

I never keep Pandora in a big block of troops. She is all about speed. I keep her moving around the entire table the whole game.

I think the only game I've ever had with Pandora where she did stay with her troops was a match against Perdita. Perdita scares Pandora. Scares her bad.

[Doctor Amos]

I never keep Pandora in a big block of troops. She is all about speed. I keep her moving around the entire table the whole game.

I think the only game I've ever had with Pandora where she did stay with her troops was a match against Perdita. Perdita scares Pandora. Scares her bad.

She has a number of Woe-leaching tricks, and being surrounded by Sorrows amps her pain-madness. I typically see her Death-Starred by Sorrow and/or Teddy to ensure death from morale. YMMV.

[karn987]

She has a number of Woe-leaching tricks, and being surrounded by Sorrows amps her pain-madness. I typically see her Death-Starred by Sorrow and/or Teddy to ensure death from morale. YMMV.

This was at least very true with the original wording on link. Now with current edition of it as per the extra errata thread, only 1 model can be linked to a model at one time. So Pandora can only have 1 sorrow linked to her now.

So Im curious, whats the strategy behind the Sorrow swarm with Pandora now? Please be as detailed as possible as Im very curious on this, first time I've heard it since the change.

[M_Ruckuss]

Heh that was certainly a bit of a ramble man ;D but all good.

Against Hamelin I would recommend the twins over Nekima because she is a big target and if he makes her insignificant or hoses her down, its going to suck to lose her. The twins are twice the targets and about the same power. Plus Lilitu gives you Lure which as you know, is the perfect way to solve the issue of Rat Catchers, just pop your hip and wink ;D. So I would go with them over Nekima. Bring along a BBS for support and then some tots for some grow'n and mature'n.

I think Lilith, Lelu, Lilitu, cherub, and 2 tots would be the best way to go at him at 30ss for now. I would love to work in a BBS but you would be cutting off potential power to much. So give this a try and focus on avoiding combat and just Luring his lynch pins in untill you have weakened him enough to strike at his heart.

Nix is a pain in butt, I always forget he is spirit till I see him on the table. But to get rid of the this pain in the ass, the best solution is overkill. Lilitu should drag him away from the rats and just beat him down with a Bond activate Lelu who together should be able to crush him. Have Lilitu Paralyze him as soon as she drags him into Range and have Lelu bite and go for his trigger to cast his spell (which will do full damage to him) and down he will go.

For the rat swarms themselves, yeah that ca nbe an issue. You just gotta stay away from them untill you peal off their catchers. If they summon more catchers by pressing rats into men (i forget what the ability is called), just lure that one away. He is going to be slow, so just stay back and Lure them away. It will eat up turns, but if you position the rest of your crew till after the swarm is gone, your going to crush him. Once you get a clear shot, just slam everything you have into Hamelin and your YOUR HARDEST to get Lilitu to paralyze him. If he is Paralyzed, he is in big trouble as you have a turn on no retaliation from him.

Transpositioning his Stolen is always fun, and if you dont want to throw one of your own models where it was, switch the Stolen with the front most rat and then lure it to you, or just charge it.

If the swarm is getting up in your face, EarthQuake it away or move in for a Whirling Death attack when their are no Rat Catchers or Hamelin nearby.

But you really can't tackle Hamelin's crew head on like you can most other crews. You have to take it apart piece by piece and kill the Lynch pins.

So your targets should be:

1) Rat catchers

2) Nix

3) Stolen

4) Hamelin

Of course if you get a shot at the stolen early on or can drop Nix quickly, do it. But without Rat Catchers, Hamelin is rather tame.

Btw if you ever get the chance and want to do a risky but fun thing, Transposition Hamelin with a Tot and have your whole crew go at him. Hamelin is not weak, but much easier to deal with when not surrounded by his crew.

Twins-I think your right about the twins-just have a crush on Nekima, but like any woman I guess she needs to learn her place (and my girl friend has just slapped me reading this over my shoulder....)That'll work better, especially with transpostion.

I like the list variation-especially as its a simple straight swap of my standard list (more or less)

"I think Lilith, Lelu, Lilitu, cherub, and 2 tots would be the best way to go at him at 30ss for now." My maths is awful, but isn there room fro a second lilitu/young Neph or BBS in there too????

I think your points are awesome, a more sophisticated, articulate and developed version of my ramblings.... will give it a go and feedback. Would just like to knoe ehat else u would suggest for 30ss, i would say another woe (lilitu for healin v blight counters and extra mask cast and, obviousl, best version of woe in game or lelu for lookin like hellboy and the potential "slappage" factor. Or your youngs ( i know u like, but if u can play as a pairi think the twins dick all over them...?)

[Natty]

This was at least very true with the original wording on link. Now with current edition of it as per the extra errata thread, only 1 model can be linked to a model at one time. So Pandora can only have 1 sorrow linked to her now.

They changed link again, check out Weird Sketches post today in the https://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=16777 thread.

I REALLY can't wait for the new errata document. It is starting to get confusing for everybody.

[karn987]

Twins-I think your right about the twins-just have a crush on Nekima, but like any woman I guess she needs to learn her place (and my girl friend has just slapped me reading this over my shoulder....)That'll work better, especially with transpostion.

I like the list variation-especially as its a simple straight swap of my standard list (more or less)

"I think Lilith, Lelu, Lilitu, cherub, and 2 tots would be the best way to go at him at 30ss for now." My maths is awful, but isn there room fro a second lilitu/young Neph or BBS in there too????

I think your points are awesome, a more sophisticated, articulate and developed version of my ramblings.... will give it a go and feedback. Would just like to knoe ehat else u would suggest for 30ss, i would say another woe (lilitu for healin v blight counters and extra mask cast and, obviousl, best version of woe in game or lelu for lookin like hellboy and the potential "slappage" factor. Or your youngs ( i know u like, but if u can play as a pairi think the twins dick all over them...?)

*counts on fingers* I think I included something I didnt mentioned lol.

Lilith

Lelu -7

Lilitu -7

Cherub -2

Terrot Tot x2 -6

Black Blood Shaman or Lelu or Lilitu

Really it boils down to what you think you want. Do you want the diversity of abilities the Shaman brings? More face eating power of Lelu? Or more trickery of Lilitu?

I think it's really hard to judge which would be hte best choice... but if I had to pick one I would pick BBS because I like his utility and he will help grow your tots really fast.

@Natty: yeah I saw that on the other thread. I guess Sketch posted the wrong thing a few months ago. The Sorrow Hive has returned! Now to update my tactica again ><

Edited November 18, 2010 by karn987

[M_Ruckuss]

I think BBS or lilitu (although all 3 are good!) utility all round support (inc. grow) or lelu and lilitu and lilitu2 and lilith would make a ridiculous combo. And as the twins interchange ss wise with Nekima, that works well as a sub (whilst having a solid core) as does lilith, BBS or more tots.

Good versatile choices, thanks for the input (was getting there and was starting to see the possibilties, and your suggestions/help have been gratefully received!!!!) Also have proxies for Nekima, BBS and alternate Lelu and Lilitu (when using multiples) will post up when I have time to get all done!!!!!

[Doctor Amos]

This was at least very true with the original wording on link. Now with current edition of it as per the extra errata thread, only 1 model can be linked to a model at one time. So Pandora can only have 1 sorrow linked to her now.

So Im curious, whats the strategy behind the Sorrow swarm with Pandora now? Please be as detailed as possible as Im very curious on this, first time I've heard it since the change.

Just to stack multiple Emotional Trauma triggers up close.

[karn987]

Just to stack multiple Emotional Trauma triggers up close.

Well my question is now a bit out of date with Sketch posting the latest change to Link which restored the ability to link multiple models. Before you could do this again I was wondering but your getting at but yeah.

[Doctor Amos]

Well my question is now a bit out of date with Sketch posting the latest change to Link which restored the ability to link multiple models. Before you could do this again I was wondering but your getting at but yeah.

Oh, you fell back to Teddy's Terrify? Take four damage. And now he's charging you.