got talked into purchasing show girls and...

[grey]

out of curiosity, how dependent are the showgirls with the mech doves? is there a fun list with running just the cophyees and maybe an outcast or two? or what about straight from the box? does anybody recommend the convict gunslinger? i purchased him a few days ago for my witch hunters. seems like running the girls a few times and getting to know their tricks is the obvious way to go. has anybody noticed their tactics running short on opportunities/originality when played against the same players time and again? ie- do people learn their tactics pretty quick or do the girls keep opponents on their toes and have opportunity of creative tactics? thanks for answering my questions and i love reading about playing the girls against the dreamer!

[Uncle]

out of curiosity, how dependent are the showgirls with the mech doves?

It's not necessary to run any Doves in a Colette crew, but she can summon them with a 0 action, a soulstone, and an 8 or higher. You'll want models for them, even if you're not taking any to start with.

is there a fun list with running just the cophyees and maybe an outcast or two? or what about straight from the box?

It's doable, but ever since I learned just how Companion works, I have to recommend running at least 1 Perfomer/Mannequin. At 30-35 SS, I like running Colette, Cassie, 2 Coryphee, and a Performer, with a dove or two making up extra points. As far as Outcasts go, Johan makes some sense thematically and can add some punch, but he's nowhere near as quick as the rest of the crew.

does anybody recommend the convict gunslinger? i purchased him a few days ago for my witch hunters.

The gunslinger's a solid model in general, but I'm just not certain there's room for him at smaller-scale games. Thing is, both Cassie and the Duet are absolute monsters, and together they eat up 23 soulstones. Add in a Performer and you're already looking pretty full, you know?

[MrNybbles]

JPRoth1980 did a good job answering the questions already. I'll just throw my two cents in as well.

out of curiosity, how dependent are the showgirls with the mech doves?

The Showgirls are not dependent on the Mechanical Doves for anything important, they are just really really cheap and really really useful in Scraps and more-so with Ramos, Mobile Toolkit, and/or Kaeris.

is there a fun list with running just the cophyees and maybe an outcast or two? or what about straight from the box?

This depends on your definition of fun. Try the following list and add a totem in a larger SS game. (What? You said nothing about Colette, only about Coryphees).

[24ss List]

** Ramos (Cache: 2)

10 Rusty Alyce -- Here's your Outcast!

_7 Coryphee

_7 Coryphee

Out of the box they do well in 25ss games. I recommend anyone proxy the Mechanical Doves and starting with one.

[23ss List]

* Colette (Cache: 3)

2 Mechanical Dove

9 Cassandra

6 Performer & Mannequin

6 Performer & Mannequin

seems like running the girls a few times and getting to know their tricks is the obvious way to go. has anybody noticed their tactics running short on opportunities/originality when played against the same players time and again? ie- do people learn their tactics pretty quick or do the girls keep opponents on their toes and have opportunity of creative tactics? thanks for answering my questions and i love reading about playing the girls against the dreamer!

What changes things the most are the Strategies and Schemes. Sometimes you can mostly ignore your opponent's models and just grab objectives. Sometimes you can target the Master. Sometimes you can piss your opponent off by healing Leveticus and keep him from getting his Scheme. The Showgirls have some flexibility.

[Uncle]

What changes things the most are the Strategies and Schemes. Sometimes you can mostly ignore your opponent's models and just grab objectives. Sometimes you can target the Master. Sometimes you can piss your opponent off by healing Leveticus and keep him from getting his Scheme. The Showgirls have some flexibility.

To further elucidate, I find that Power Ritual is a near-must for Colette. Getting 3 VPs early in the game (you should be able to pull it off T2-3 with most crews) is just too good. Your other scheme should be either Bodyguard (Colette) or Sabotage, which you can pull off the same turn as Power Ritual with a bit of luck.

The rest of the game will consist of you trying to accomplish your misson while thwarting your opponent, but starting off 5 VPs off is rather nice, if I don't say.

[anathema]

If your going against the dreamer, just remember Cassandra is his assassin. 21 inch movement first turn should get you into base contact with him first turn. And since she can't be attacked with melee til turn 3, she will be able to get the first hit off on him. LCB has a low enough defense (and since you have Collette, Cassandra can use soulstones) Cassandra will wipe him off the table in no time.

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Dreamer doesn't need to try and disengage to get away from anyone in melee range. He can either summon Chompy within 6" (outside melee) or get a daydream to do it for him, later that Daydream casts calm dreams and the Dreamer reappears ready to do his stuff. Depending on where the Daydreams are the Dreamer can come back again far away.

Alternatively he could try and burn a SS to get her on -flip for WP then spawn a host of Alps around Cassandra and wait for her to activate for big damage or spring a couple of Stitched Together and start gambling.

Putting Cassandra on her own next to the Dreamer turn 1 might not be a great idea.

[Uncle]

Putting Cassandra on her own next to the Dreamer turn 1 might not be a great idea.

Not only that, but engaging the dreamer T1 with Cassie will lead to a very dead Cassie. All he needs to do is summon his Nightmares and they can take their team turning her into a fine red paste, assuming that LCB doesn't do it on his own with 3 melee strikes.

[Wodschow]

Not only that, but engaging the dreamer T1 with Cassie will lead to a very dead Cassie. All he needs to do is summon his Nightmares and they can take their team turning her into a fine red paste, assuming that LCB doesn't do it on his own with 3 melee strikes.

The point is that you cannot attack Cassandra with melee strikes for the first two turns..

You can however literally terrify her to death, but you cannot attack her directly.

Not untill after she's attempted to make a disengagement strike anyway..

So yeah I agree with you that it's not a good idea, but she's not as easy to kill as you make it seem.

[anathema]

The point is that you cannot attack Cassandra with melee strikes for the first two turns..

You can however literally terrify her to death, but you cannot attack her directly.

Not untill after she's attempted to make a disengagement strike anyway..

So yeah I agree with you that it's not a good idea, but she's not as easy to kill as you make it seem.

She can't get attacked by melee, but Alps can drain wounds through their abilities and Stitched can Gamble for a one shot kill if they're lucky. Hell, Daydreams and the Dreamer can try Twist Reality too.

The Dreamer has plenty of ways to take down an isolated model without using melee.

[Wodschow]

She can't get attacked by melee, but Alps can drain wounds through their abilities and Stitched can Gamble for a one shot kill if they're lucky. Hell, Daydreams and the Dreamer can try Twist Reality too.

The Dreamer has plenty of ways to take down an isolated model without using melee.

Uhm.. You can use Alps, yes, but none of their abilities will affect her untill she activates again, which is when Terrifying would affect her aswell.

All the other ideas you suggested won't work. Unless you disengage with her first.. Which you of course always can do, and if she attempts to stop you you're free to do whatever with her that you want to.

It really wasn't my point to say that you cannot kill her, just that it's not as straightforward as you say.

I certainly don't think sacrificing Cassandra like this to stall the Dreamer for a maximum of one turn is worth it..

(Which is also what I intended to say at the end of my previous post, but somehow I've left out any mention of Cassandra)

[anathema]

Point is, the Dreamer doesn't need to disengage. He or a Daydream can summon Chompy outside Cassandra's melee range and so he's out of it as he buries. You've then wasted Cassandra's activation for little gain other than a slight inconvenience for the Dreamer in terms of activation order. She's then in a bit of bother too.

[Uncle]

The point is that you cannot attack Cassandra with melee strikes for the first two turns..

Sorry. I was under the impression that if you were going to send Cassie screaming at the Dreamer T1, you'd use Swords Dance and a high Mask to pull off Magician's Prop and hope for a one-turn kill of the Dreamer.

If you're just sending her out as a roadblock... That's even less advisable.

[Jonas Albrecht]

I think Cassandra is a rather remarkable roadblock. Put a Mannequin with her, and keep Mirrors up while she has Southern Charm active. Its amazingly effective. I have yet to test this against every model, but so far she has managed to survive a triple Flurry (9 attacks!) onslaught in single turn, while taking 0 damage.

[Wodschow]

I think Cassandra is a rather remarkable roadblock. Put a Mannequin with her, and keep Mirrors up while she has Southern Charm active. Its amazingly effective. I have yet to test this against every model, but so far she has managed to survive a triple Flurry (9 attacks!) onslaught in single turn, while taking 0 damage.

Currently you cannot link to Cassandra for the first two turns unless she attacks.

But currently a Showgirl within 2" of one Mannequin can also Fix Mannequin on any other Mannequin within LoS.

Soeh.. Yea.. It'll probably change, but that's how it currently is.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Of course. I'm not referring to the idea of first turn assassination using Cassandra, merely that her roadblock potential is outstanding.

[MrNybbles]

Hate to burst your bubble, but the Dreamer doesn't need to try and disengage to get away from anyone in melee range. He can either summon Chompy within 6" (outside melee) or get a daydream to do it for him, later that Daydream casts calm dreams and the Dreamer reappears ready to do his stuff. Depending on where the Daydreams are the Dreamer can come back again far away.

Alternatively he could try and burn a SS to get her on -flip for WP then spawn a host of Alps around Cassandra and wait for her to activate for big damage or spring a couple of Stitched Together and start gambling.

Putting Cassandra on her own next to the Dreamer turn 1 might not be a great idea.

Malifaux Errata (Version 1, January 2010)

Replace

Some placement effects require a model (or models) to

Replace one another. When a model(s) Replaces another,

place that model in base contact with the model it is

replacing, then remove the replaced model from play. There

must be room for the model to fit. Any effects on the

model(s) being replaced are applied to all Replacing models,

including any Wounds suffered, which must be divided as

evenly as possible between them.

I see what you are getting at, but you are incorrect about The Dreamer's Nightmare Friend ability. Lord Chompy Bits isn't Summoned, he Replaces The Dreamer. No, really, read

Now let's do the math in this. If Cassandra (with a 1" melee range) is in base contact with The Dreamer who is replaced with LCB. Because LCB must be placed in base contact with The Dreamer (who has a base size of 30mm) then LCB is still within Cassandra's 1" melee range. For your opponent to summon LCB outside of melee The Dreamer must move away from Cassandra so part of his base is within 1" and the edge where LCB is summoned is over 1" away. This complicates getting The Dreamer away from Cassandra and may cost him an additional action, but isn't much of a roadblock.

1 inch = 25.4 millimeters

The stuff about the Daydream is correct though because Call Nightmare does actually Summon Nightmares.

But currently a Showgirl within 2" of one Mannequin can also Fix Mannequin on any other Mannequin within LoS.

Actually there is no requirement for the target Mannequin to be within Los. Actions by default do not require LoS and the Mannequin's Fixable ability does not state anything about LoS. (I've looked at this a lot and it does seem broken when you consider the 'Fix Mannequin' action does not have ANY requirements on targeting a Mannequin to heal 1 Wd).

[anathema]

OK, I'm being fast and loose with my terminology. What I'm talking about is the Dreamer or a Daydream using Frightening Dream to place a buried Chompy. It may use an action, but Cassandra is easily avoided in this way.

I'm pretty sure that if you can get the All My Friends trigger off you can have the Dreamer free of the roadblock and leave her a nice little Alp surprise for her next time she activates too, along with a load of Steal Breath attempts making it a very dangerous move.

[MrNybbles]

The details on how LCB is unburied varies so I just wanted to point out they don't work the same (one is Summoned, the other is Replaced) which follow different rules. I'm not trying to argue with you; The Dreamer is a tough one to deal with.

To me if you can get Cassandra over to The Dreamer on the first activation of turn 1 your best option is to Alpha Strike activating Cassandra, Colette, and have Colette Swap with Cassandra and use Soulstones and cheating your hand to inflict at least 3 damage with Magician's Duel which won't get reduced by Spirit because it inflicts Magic Damage. LCB shouldn't be able to kill off Colette when he activates.

[Uncle]

The details on how LCB is unburied varies so I just wanted to point out they don't work the same (one is Summoned, the other is Replaced) which follow different rules. I'm not trying to argue with you; The Dreamer is a tough one to deal with.

To me if you can get Cassandra over to The Dreamer on the first activation of turn 1 your best option is to Alpha Strike activating Cassandra, Colette, and have Colette Swap with Cassandra and use Soulstones and cheating your hand to inflict at least 3 damage with Magician's Duel which won't get reduced by Spirit because it inflicts Magic Damage. LCB shouldn't be able to kill off Colette when he activates.

Just one thing to point out, for what it's worth:

The Dreamer should have 5-8 soulstones to burn on damage reduction flips, making him a little harder to kill. Magician's Duel should still do the trick, especially if you use Infusion, swap in, duel, let LCB go, reactivate, duel, and swap out with, say, a Mannequin, but it's a high risk tactic.

[anathema]

The details on how LCB is unburied varies so I just wanted to point out they don't work the same (one is Summoned, the other is Replaced) which follow different rules. I'm not trying to argue with you; The Dreamer is a tough one to deal with.

Fair enough, taken as read I was getting the termiology wrong which might have been how I was playing it. No offence taken.

To me if you can get Cassandra over to The Dreamer on the first activation of turn 1 your best option is to Alpha Strike activating Cassandra, Colette, and have Colette Swap with Cassandra and use Soulstones and cheating your hand to inflict at least 3 damage with Magician's Duel which won't get reduced by Spirit because it inflicts Magic Damage. LCB shouldn't be able to kill off Colette when he activates.

As mentioned, the Dreamer can cheat and use SS when defending, mitigation. If he has anything to do with it you'll be on a for damage and even with 3Wd he can mitigate to stay alive. Tricky one to pull off!

Also, if you gain reactivate what if the Dreamer Alp bombs you? You can't cheat or SS the Smother flip and there's a very good chance you'll be slow and have lost 3 wounds. Its not worth using LCB to let her pull off Blinding Flash when you can just leave her to leak wounds when she reactivates.

Alternatvely Stitched Together will make her burn stones or control cards if she draws worse than them, and she can't get her Df trigger off.