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Tips for my first game, plz


Golden

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I will be playing Nicodem vs Lillith in a 30ss scrap.

This is garaunteed, because these are the only masters my opponent and I have ready.

I know his strategy, he will most likely run 1 Teddy, possibly his Killjoy, and Im assuming, mostly tots.(he seemed very enthusiastic about his "Ramp Tactic")

Ive been debating the crew I should use and here are my 2 ideas.

List 1

Mortimer(7)

2x Sam Punks(10)

Rotten Belle(4)

Bete Noir(9)

3 ss in cache

List 2

Mortimer(7)

2x Belles(8)

Vulture(2)

Hans(9)

Sam Punk(5)

2 ss in cache

Suggestions, comments, questions- dissect away!!!

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Are you going to be using strategies or schemes?

For your first game I would recommend less soul stones. Maybe 20 would be better.

Also Nico vs Lilith. You are probably gonna lose your first game. Nico is a lot tougher to master then Lilith.

Finally I don't have any game winning strategies or killer list idea for you. This is your first game. Best to keep it simple and get the rules down first and then worry about the complicated stuff

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I would insist on the use of strategies and schemes because a survivor match would be severely in his favor with this line up.

As for expecting to lose, never. That mentality means your already dead.

Im not looking for a blockbuster list to be handed to me on a silver platter, Im looking more for a comprehensive critique on my 2 lists and plausible strategies with them.

I should also mention that everyone is brand new to Malifaux in this area. From what I know so far, we have this guy playing Lillith, his gf playing Colette, and 2 guys each playing Lady Justice, and that is a list of all the players we have so far. Im 90% certain that this will be the first public game of Malifuax at the store we hang at.

That being said, sadly enough, I think this might be the closest to an even match Im gonna get, lmao.

Thank you though, Dan.

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Well I can help a bit more.

1) Drop a model from either list and add more Soul Stones. Nico is gonna need them to boost his spells to hit Lilith as her high defense and abilities make here tricky. Plus you can always raise more undead with Reanimator.

2) Definetly keep the Vulture(or two if you got them) to keep Nico nice and safe but still cast his spells. Especially Decay

3) I'd probably stay away from both Bete or Hans. They are a drain on resources and very tricky to get to work right. Have you considered the Convict Gunslinger instead of Hans

4) If you can play defensivel(depends on your Strategy really). Surround Nico with mindless zombies and let Lilith come to you. Don't over extend yourself.

Nico is really played best as a Block army. Keep Mindless zombies right next to him, and other models close enough to get his Bolster undead aura. Use the Vultures to extend your range and harass your enemies. Against Lilith Fog is not to useful, so stick with casting decay and paralyze.

Finally don't forget base rules. Especially what Soul Stones can do for you(heal wounds, increase your flip totals, etc). You are gonna need them against Lilith as she is a melee monster.

Hope that helps more.

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As for expecting to lose, never. That mentality means your already dead.

Well you are playing the undead :)

I just meant that Nico is rather tricky and Lilith is much easier for new people to master. So you might have a bit of a learning curve to get over. Just don't get discouraged if you don't win the first game.

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Id prefer to use the convict gunslinger over Hans. Cheaper cost and he seems better suited for what Im doing. That was actually the main reason I made the post, looks like I'll have to get the gunslinger done when he comes in the mail.

I've heard good things about Bete, tho, you really think I should just ditch her?

Understood on the amount of soulstones, it will be a necessity that certain things happen and they're a viable way to ensure that.

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I haven't played with Nico but i can say Bete has been good for me against Lilith. Make sure you try and burn his soulstones out then throw a chump or two in next to Lilith to create a death for Bete. Don't bring her out if Lilith has action points remaining or Bete will get sent straight back down!

Once she is activated, groin strike and flurry can knock out Lilith if she's used her SSs. Best to delay it as long as possible to drain their control hand and stop cheating.

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The hardest thing for me to learn as Nico when I started was proper placement of that slow old man.

Try to keep him far enough back so he doesn't get annihilated but close enough for most of your army to benefit from Bolster Undead.

I also advise using two or more Punk Zombies, if you get them with Bolster Undead, it is a very scary thing for your opponent to face.

Also if you need to, use [0] Arise to "scoop" up the Corpse Counters and bring them to you. Nico can be like Kirai...in that he can use the mindless zombies produced as a shield and make an enemy waste an AP trying to hit you. Don't think he's invulnerable though, he is really tough, but not that tough.

As for nilus, he's an undead genius. I wouldn't take Bete Noire either, you can take another Punk Zombie and a Crooked Man for the same cost.

On that note, Crooked Men are nice if you get the cards for Shafted! counters. Laying a minefield is a pretty good idea if you can force your enemy to go into an area. There is no way to negate the damage from a shafted counter other than mitigating the damage by using a soulstone.

If you are ever so lucky to have Lilith herself flip a joker for it, then you are a very lucky man.

Just reiterating, I would just play defensively. Nicodem is not a "in the Sh*t" kind of master. He's the villain in a James Bond movie, he just sits in the back and blasts people with vultures.

Oh yeah....good luck!

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This is a quick Starters guide to Nicadem

(Things I wish I know before I started playing him)

First things first, every Nicadem list has to lists the core and what it turns into, for instance I never start the game with a punk zombie in my list, I think of them as a summon only model. If you build your list right you should have models like the undead dogs that are meant to die to help you summon. Think of getting them discounted buy one dog for 2SS have it die to turn into a 5ss model, a 3ss discount!

Lets talk dogs, Canine remains are perfect models in a nicadem starting list, you would never summon them but they make good core to your list. Each dog only cost 2 soul stones so think of it as buying copse counter. When under the effects of bolster undead a dog become DF 7 and CB 6 so they can Tie up key models and possibly give out a wound or two before dyeing and giving you more corpse counters. They also are fast so you can get them into key shooters like nino to delay him or even kill him.

So with nicadem you should be focusing on casting reanimater at lest once a turn if not more, if you cant then you should convert the corpse counters into mindless zombies. Remember you can always SS a low crow in hopes to cast reanimater, I would try to start each game with 5 or more SS on nicadem to do just this.

Next about killing with Nicadem, well lots of players will tell you that nicadems best spell is decay, though in my games decay has been useful from time to time I find that if you are worried about models getting too close to nicadem use Rigor moris, you don’t damage them but paralyze them. Paralyzing models is one of Nicadem most powerful abilities, I played games where I would paralyze almost all my enemies models for two full turns and my zombies just took there time killing everything. So if you see a powerful model that you cant deal with right away, like killjoy, simply paralyze it and come to it when you are ready.

So Nicadem is really about rescore management, Taking lower point models and turning them into more expensive models. I never really depend on my opponent to drop corpes counter since there is a possibility they wont.

Now when it comes to totems there are two types of players, ones who use the vultures and ones who use the grave spirit. I use the grave spirit for two things, first armor 2 on Nicadem is awesome and 2nd its has a slightly better casting ability, I mainly use him to cast fog to keep shooting at bay, but there was one game that drew the 13 of crows and had him cast reanimater for me and I used Nicadem to paralyze everything in range. For me the spirit is more flexible.

So this is what I would run with as a starting list.

Nicadem +3 SS to the cache

Grave Spirit 1ss

Crooked man 4ss

Crooked man 4ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Mortimer 7ss

So a total of 22SS and a cache of 6ss

Use the crooked men for Cave in mainly. there shafted spell is okay but I would only cast it on a paralyzed model that has yet to activate, because I’m evil like that. Also Crooked men are great starting models in the game, they have great df so Shooting armies wont have too much advantage over you, when bolstered the crooked men have 8DF vs ranged attacks. Also Cave in is a good range attacked, and there trigger for fining tools is awesome. I don’t think i would summon crooked men, like the dogs they are good starting models.

Like i said before use the dogs to move fast and tie up models.

on the first turn I normally start with moving one dog, then I activate Mortimer and though his Zombie companion I activate nicadem and the grave spirit. Mortimer goes first, I cast Exhume and if it goes off I then cast fresh meat on the dog that made the first movement. Next I active The totem and link to Nicadem, if I can I then cast Fog or reanimate if morty got a corpse counter. Next Nikadem, he will move forward, cast reanimante, then fog or move forward depending on what the totem did if I cant cast reanimater this turn i will do arise if i can then I would do bolster undead. If any of the models cast reanimater I would summon a punk zombie as far forward as I can.

I tend to repeat this same turn till im in combat with my P. zombies. trying to raze as much undead as possible.

I normally add bête at 35ss and above games, I will once and a while add her in lower point games but it really depend on what I am playing and what I am playing against. She is a lot of points and I would lose corpse counters just for bringing her over other models. I have played this list before to some good effect,

Nicadem +3 SS to the cache

Grave Spirit 1ss

Bête 9ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Mortimer 7ss

But this was vs a list that had no range in it what so ever so melee is what I needed.

But that is how I play him other players don’t like to rely on reanimater as much as I do but it has never really failed me.

I hope this helps you better understand how I play Nicadem and I hope some of this will help you in your games.

So Heres hopping you like the undead hord!

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-Andrew Haught

Edited by TimeLapse
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Well I can help a bit more.

1) Drop a model from either list and add more Soul Stones. Nico is gonna need them to boost his spells to hit Lilith as her high defense and abilities make here tricky. Plus you can always raise more undead with Reanimator.

I agree that more soul stones is better but keep in mind Nicodems spell are WP based not DF so if you want to paralyze Lilith you dont have to beat her high DF but here good WP of 6 but not the best, and in this at lest you will have a +1 over her with casting of 7.

I re-read your post and for a 30ss (Since thats what you will mostly play) game this is what i would bring,

Nicadem +3 SS to the cache

Grave Spirit 1ss

Bete 9ss

Crooked man 4ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Canine Remains 2ss

Mortimer 7ss

Since the list does not have much range in it i would drop a crooked man and add bete, I would keep on crooked man for some range and the rest is about the same, you should have 6ss in your cache. Liliths is tricky and fast so i would not worry about moveing to her, i would sit tight and start makeing P.zobies with help from morty, the dogs are there to die but i would place them close to nicadem so they cant charge him right away.

Hope this helps as well as my first post.

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Thank you for the suggestions Timelapse. But I'll have to do this without Crooked Men or Dogs because I dont have them yet. That being said here's a list of what I do have:

Painted: 2 Rotten Belles

3 Sam Punks

Nicodem

Mortimer

Hans

Bete Noir

2 Vultures

In Progress: Seamus

Unpainted: 2 Hanged

Ortega box

Arriving tommorrow: Grave spirit

Copycat

Killjoy

Convict Gunslinger

Viktoria box

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Well you can get away without the crooked men by replaceing them with bells, they can lure stuff and are nice when bolstered.

But as soon as you can get the dogs, they are worth every point, and the ganitee you enough corpes counters if your opponet is playing nighmares or constucts.

For a list of what you have i would concider the following for now untill you can get dogs or proxy them.

for a 30ss game,

Nicadem +3

Rotten bell 4ss

Rotten bell 4ss

Punk Zombie 5ss

Punk Zombie 5ss

Mortimer 7ss

Grave spirit 1ss

Use the bells to lure models in range of the punk Zombies, make sure when you do this you have already bostlered undead, and that will be the theme of this list, lure then P. zombie. Though I would look out for Perdita lists and others with high WP.

On a side note, you do have perdita one of the best masters in the game for fighting neverborn, I would think about getting moma ortaga and the enslaved Nef tottem for her and you have a soild list with just the box set, I have even thrown hans in with the family with great sucess.

Hope this helps,

-Andrew Haught

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Even though Nicodem is a bit "finesse-y" for new players to figure out, the Punk Zombie is probably the auto-include for this army.

I also think Belles are a great idea in combonation with the others.

I'm not going to post a 30SS list because I don't think that is very helpful...this is just my personal opinion that you cannot learn when people hand you things.

A good rundown of all the models is a good idea though.

Even though there is a nice topic on this already, I do not personally like Mortimer. He's just a two-trick pony in my lists and I find that if I am against someone who has very little living models, I use my own models...failing that, I play McM =D

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Starting with Punk Zombies is kinda silly to me.

You can summon them with a 9 or better of Crows, and with Mortimer, you can get a free one on turn one, and turn two, and turn three, and turn four, and turn five, and turn six.

Should he live that long.

I would start with Hanged + Bete Noir.

Or maybe throw KJ in there.

Get models that you know can do some serious harm, so that you'll have additional Corpse Counters to bring in more Punk Zombies.

Because once that whole "Someone-dies-I-get-a-Punk-Zombie" train starts rolling, it's not going to stop.

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CANCELLED!!! With a Maybe Saturday, bro, and CANCELLED again. Im so pissy about this, I could rant...

And I will...

I've been waiting to play for a month and with each new deadline, I sweatshop out more Models cuz more Models is more options and more options suits Mr. Nicodem just fine, and for the hell of it, I painted Seamus, in the off chance someone around here actually finishes a crew, let alone 2, I could actually be in a brawl, which might happen, in maybe ohhhh March, at this rate, and all I have left out of that box is Cybelle and the final belle unpainted, each week I crank out like 4 more Models, which could be more, but I leave my paints at a friends house or I'd never get out of my house which means I don't always get to paint cuz someone may need an @$$ whoopin' from Spider-man, but those are the sacrifices you make at times, and then my friend's girlfriend's sister was all like your gorgeous and I was like get away from me BLEEP, I need opponents not women and went back to painting Killjoy who did wonders for my self esteem because he weighs 300 pounds more than I'll ever weigh and is the model to paint for anyone who may have body image issues, but I digress...

I need to find someone to crush, who lives in the NY, Hudson Valley area that wouldn't mind a throw down. The store I can usually be found at is in Poughkeepsie, and I'd post the name, but Im not sure if that violates site rules or not.

I gotta go make some phone calls...

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Yes pick them (your corpse counter) up or lady will walk over and flash her magnificent boobs and they will disappear. Lol. And if they have the executioner, keep bete away from him if you bring her. Cause if he kills her she doesn't come back. But good luck. I have faith in Nicodem I've beat lady j with him plenty of times. You can too.

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Yessir, it's an uphill battle and you'll have to be more cautious with those counters but it's doable.

As Iamwyrd said, watch for the Final Repose trigger, which means no counters for you. But this is a double edged sword sometimes, because you can only activate one trigger at a time.

Also maybe think of taking something like the Rogue Necromancy because he is immune to things that specifically target the undead, which is Lady J's favorite pastime.

That nasty spell that ol' Judgy casts only does normal damage to you.

Another problem you may have is when Nico casts spells at her and her goonies, most of them have "Fear Not Death" which usually puts their Wp higher than your cast. Since all of his spells are Wp Duels...this kinda sucks for the old man.

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Another problem you may have is when Nico casts spells at her and her goonies, most of them have "Fear Not Death" which usually puts their Wp higher than your cast. Since all of his spells are Wp Duels...this kinda sucks for the old man.

Well.. The Nicodem player is the one to decide whether or not to make use of Embrace Death, so they wouldn't get a bonus to their Wp when resisting (unless you'd want them to, but you don't...).

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Yes pick them (your corpse counter) up or lady will walk over and flash her magnificent boobs and they will disappear. Lol. And if they have the executioner, keep bete away from him if you bring her. Cause if he kills her she doesn't come back. But good luck. I have faith in Nicodem I've beat lady j with him plenty of times. You can too.

Just a side note, if the Exey doesn't count as killing her if you save her life via slow to die, bury fully heal. So his trigger wount aply. So infact bette never come back alive after she dies because she never dies, she heals then buries.

I could be wrong about this but i dont think i am.

-Andrew

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