Once Again lets talk Hans, hans, hans, hans!

[TimeLapse]

Hey It has been a long time since i first started my topic on hans and back in the day, at the time the only model to compare hans to was Nino. At the time most players agreed that hans was slightly overpriced when compaired to what nino can do, but the fact that anyone could bring hans made it okay with most players.

But now we have more models to compair him to and I wanted to bring back the why is has sooo expencive talk.

the new long range shooters now added to the game are,

Freikops Trapper at 6ss

and

Rami Lacrox at 6ss

So I was looking at the Freikorps Trapper and I noticed that I think he is better then hans!

at 2 less soul stones he has the same health,

more movement and movement ablities,

can move and shoot,

has better defence, stubern,

bulletproof is wash with the freikorps armor,

self healing,

Scout and the ablity to give scout,

and having a good melee option.

It just adds up IMHO that Freikorps Trapper> Hans

Where Hans is better is that he give a bit more damage and he has better triggers.

But I think that when you compaire the two there = in benafits and what they do, But the hunter wins out in total because of his price.

But then again Has will give out at lest 3 weak damage a shoot if not four if he has a rams in his flip. But then again unlike all the other long range snipers in the game he can only target one model at a time and he can't really move and shoot even with his crap ablity that lets him the down side is too much.

So the question comes up in the game witch sniper is the best for its cost?

1Nino

2Trapper

3Rami

4 hans

Also do you think that they will change Han's custum ammo to be like the new Gunsmith?

So add your 2 cents and witch sniper you think is the best thinking gameplay/cost wise.

Though a list that had both Freikorps Trapper and Hans in it would be intresting, in a Vik or Freikorps list, have like 2 trappers hans Von and some other Freikorps models.

-Andrew

Edited November 7, 2010 by TimeLapse

[Bas1]

Hans can sit and shoot out of sight. I feel that's his most usefull ability.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Hans also wont lock you out of using other Mercenaries.

[Jonas Albrecht]

So the question comes up in the game witch sniper is the best for its cost?

1 Nino

2 Hans

3 Freikorps Hunter

4 Rami Lacrox

Having only experience with Nino, what makes him so valuable to me is his Family trait, and his ability to check his range before he shoots. I know a lot of people here can do exact ranges in their heads, but when I need to make a long shot against a foe, "In My Sights" comes in very handy.

[Wodschow]

You just can't go wrong with an effective Cb of 9 and Trigger Happy aswell as Headshot.

I'd still say Niño is the best of them, maybe slightly too good even, I'd consider lowering his Cb or Rg just a bit if I were in charge of everything.

I'd rank his Gremlin counterpart second, his damage output is just frightening, although it tends to kill himself in the end.

The weak damage on the Trapper is a bit discouraging, especially considering his only average Cb. Unless fighting Constructs or Beasts en masse I think he's about equal to Hans, just with very different set of options. This said I still see myself fielding the trapper more often than Hans.

Soeh..

1. Niño

2. Rami

3. Trapper

4. Hans

If Hans was given 'In My Sights' he'd be a whole lot more interesting.

[gunpowder saint]

I adore Hans, he's by far my favorite mercenary. Custom Ammunition is a fiddly little bastard to get off but I always cast it, even when I don't have an 8:rams or higher just for the chance to get a high ram for it. There's no reason not too and sometimes fate is kind. Also the down fall is his Severe damage is astronomical but his moderate and weak are the same so to do decent damage you need a 11, 12, 13. BUT severe with a :rams is SIX damage! Also he ignores intervening models, forests and Fog, and White Snow. So it's helpful. Also Bulletproof Two! also helpful. Also his minimum damage is 4 with a :rams in the combat which is outstanding! Sever racks up 7 damage with a :rams :rams

Nino, I'll say this In My Sights is awesome! 9Cb allows you to throw down a 4:masks and still hit, and thereby triggering Trigger Happy, allowing another FREE shot. Which with 2 minimum damage isn't terrible. Though just like Hans he'll shrivel up in close quarters. But now here's the good thing, if he is trapped in close combat he has, "where'd he go!?" and poof he's walking away. Though honestly it's only saved him once or twice, usually he's dead by the end of the charge. Or they just shoot him down with a Master's Spell.

Trappers are nice, From the Shadows is really cool but Snipers from my experience and opinion should stay in your deployment zone and provide cover fire. It's too often I put them out there and the enemy comes barreling straight for them, but then they get a lifesaver skill called "Reposition" which is flat awesome being able to shoot, push, shoot, push and get 8" away from an encroaching model just by hurting the enemy, though when you miss the first shot, it becomes alot harder to get away at that point. 6 wounds with no bulletproof makes him alittle squishy compared to Nino and Hans but still worth it point wise seeing as you can have TWO of them, which is super awesome for the Vik's or Von Schill.

Rami um... I have only played against him once... :[ so I don't know alot about him other that BOOM I deal 8 damage and 4 to myself. Next turn, Boom! I deal 8 damage to you and I die. I took two people with me lol

so...

1. Hans

2. Nino

3. Trappers

4. Austringers [[lol oh yeah Lucius and austringers! ^.^]]

5. Rami

Edited November 6, 2010 by gunpowder saint

[poulpox]

I'm with Gunpowder saint on this one with just one iota about Hans: I think his gloriousness depends very much of the scenery lay out. Hans is a must for anything foresty: he is the only model of those mentioned who can see a target hiding behind a forest, which the hunter ability does not match up to (as per the ruling that even if the wood is less than 3" deep, or 6" for hunters, models from either side can't draw LoS at each other, EXCEPT Hans. GO SNIPER!!). And I agree that from the shadows is sweet but I wouldn't put Hans anywhere near the front line, so he doesn't need it.

So my two conclusion points would be this:

. As long as the board doesn't have too many buildings or cliffs/walls blocking LoS

. As long as the strategy doesn't involve too much model movement (such as in destroy the evidence)

I would go for Hans.

I often like to field 2 mercenaries (with old Z) and therefore I don't like the freidskorp limitation. Pere Ravage, well why not, but I'm not too kin on playstyle involving killing my own models too much

Btw what's that bulletproof 6 for Hans?? Is your card a V2 or is this a typo?

[gunpowder saint]

lmao sorry fixed!

[Amarel]

Soeh..

1. Niño

2. Rami

3. Trapper

4. Hans

I agree with this ^^

[nilus]

I gotta say I think the Trapper is getting the raw deal against say Nino. The ability to deploy anywhere on the board is huge for a sniper. I am actually thinking they are gonna be a big component in a few of my lists when they come out.

[TimeLapse]

The trapper though has a loads of good ablities and he is not just a sniper his hunting knife at CB6 makes him good at melee as well as haveing burtal. I also think his ablitiy to give Scout is almost worth his points right there, all in all he is a vary strong model and for what he can do he is in my top list,

Think of a trapper in a Nicadem list or any really, for 7ss he can give all your punk zombies scout with a zero action.

For me right now in best to worst it goes

1Nino

2Trapper

3Rami

4 hans

But there all soo close to the same goodness. I still think that a vik list with

Hans, trapper x2 and 2 ronin would be an intresting list to play, you set up you lanes of fire and you use the viks and ronin as bait to get models in the open or you just simply hit them with your swords.

Edited November 7, 2010 by TimeLapse

[poulpox]

The ability to deploy anywhere on the board is huge for a sniper

I agree the concept is good, however the dilemma raises: if you're close to the ennemy and shoot early, you have a lone model vs a whole crew in turn one or two, which is likely to make you lose the trapper; on the other hand with Hans you must put him as supporting fire, which means he won't likely shoot for the first 2 turns, however he'll be able to pepper the field from 3 onwards with hopefully cover from his fellow crew members, staying safe.

After having said Hans is my fav, I also think he's a little pricy. At that price he'd owe to have a higher Cb or more evasive skill or a spell which he can cast more easily

[Amarel]

I agree the concept is good, however the dilemma raises: if you're close to the ennemy and shoot early, you have a lone model vs a whole crew in turn one or two, which is likely to make you lose the trapper; on the other hand with Hans you must put him as supporting fire, which means he won't likely shoot for the first 2 turns, however he'll be able to pepper the field from 3 onwards with hopefully cover from his fellow crew members, staying safe.

There's a lot of supposition in that statement . Let's not forget that the Trapper can be placed anywhere that you could place Hans and has far greater movement. Also he can always use Reposition to get some space between him and the enemy and From the Shadows gives him so good CC protection if there isn't a shot for him to take. Being a Graverobber lets him clear up any nearby tokens before they can be used against you and even if his main use is to sit in tricky terrain and grant a bubble of Scout to your less agile guys that's worthwhile.

[poulpox]

Also he can always use Reposition to get some space between him and the enemy and From the Shadows gives him so good CC protection if there isn't a shot for him to take

I agree from the shadows has some good strategy uses, which might make a trapper more polyvalent, and makes Hans a much more circumstancial model to use. I guess it's the specialised vs polyvalent argument, and also the joy of Malifaux allowing choice of models after strategies have been flipped and scenery been placed.

I love Hans but I no longer make him a compulsory model as I realised his use has conditions and for example I would not include him in a fix tourney list, whereas the trapper could be easier to fit in a fix or core crew list.

So maybe values of models can be considered different whether they are used in fix lists (tourney) or whether they are considered for variable lists (friendly)?

[Headcase2]

From the Shadows doesn't necessarily have to put you close to the enemy. I'm sure everyone who plays Hans regularly has had that awesome sniping position (clock tower, wooded clifftop, you name it) sitting just outside his deployment zone. If Hans has to walk and climb into this position it would take him 4+ turns (a total waste), whereas the trapper can simply deploy there and start blasting away.

That said, I still love the Headshot trigger. Capitalizing on it does make Hans a card hog (he needs your high :crows, and you sometimes end up holding on to them for a looong time) and works best when you can hold his activation till your opponent's hand is depleted or discarded by various abilities (Hans loves his Convict buddy!).

Compared to Nino though... well, he just falls way short, as do all sniper models. Headshot, trigger happy, good mobility, high Cb, cheap,... the kid has it all. I haven't seen (or played) many guild crews that didn't contain him.

[nilus]

Interesting that someone mentioned one lone trapper out all alone because that is there other major selling point. They are not

unique or rare. So you can deploy more then 1. 2 in any list. Unlimited in a Vik or Shill list.

[dakrulz55]

also there not realy alone as they wk5 or trigger for a 3" push wich makes them really mobile (with scout too) were hans hasta remain stationary or suffer a deduct.