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Help me beat dreamer


tadaka

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Well I'm going to try and interrupt the alpha strike before it gets to me. I personaly all ways take a cheap model to get my second waif first turn. Most of the time that's a dog but i am taking a SAP for a reason.

My issue is With the alpha strike when I can take it those are the games I win. Levi is great most games(ie no forests) at killing off the nightmares when they are not on top of him.

Set up

I will try and get him to come over toward a side of the battle ground as best I can. The closer to the side of the map the better.

First turn

So If I can Alice will reactivate both the sap and the ash/dust. If not I will just make sure I can give reactivate to the ash and dust. Burn my Waif activation just to make him waist one given dreamer will probably not have many first turn. Then I will move up the SAP with a charge 2 times if reactivate pans out to a max of 10 inches.

Then Ashes and Dust will 0 action push up and kill off the spa. This will give me 6 to 10 inches free movement for the ash. It will also give Levi a corpse counter to get my second waif. Then Ash and dust will fly across the board with 2 goals depending on what options I have.

First goal. Kill any day dreams I can. Second would be to kill dreamer. Ideal plan is for last action of second activation is move the ash/dust toward best table edge but at the same time Get him far away as I can from any thing that can hit him. If he dies o well if he don't i am going to use 0 action to kill him. Move the placed model 2 movment for 12 more inches the heck out of there. Now with any luck I would be well out of range of the other side and in place to reform next turn.

Basic hit and run tactic.

I know this is not fool proof but Eh sounds fun if nothing else.

This may end up getting pushed to second turn if the table is a far corner thing and just go for placement on the first turn.

As a side note. With the Instant activation what happens to the rest of my action points if he pops out the chomp?

Need to get to my book to offer any advice on the strategy.

But on your last question, he pops out, you finish your current model's activation, then he activates next. I think he will even interrupt say Companion activations etc, but he wont stop a model from activating the same turn he comes out. You get a few seconds to realize how F'ed you are before he chomps you.

Just don't forget, kill the Dreamer and all his Nightmares come out. Sure only LCB gets to activate immediatly, but thats a lot of models that just fell in your lap.

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Second Dreamer fight write up.

Deployment 6 inch on end of each table.

My mission was line in the sand. I set most of the explosives to the right hand side. I put 1 at the far end of the table banking on ash/dust being placed on other side late game.

He had grab treasure.

My crew

Levi

Alice

Ash and dust

2 spa

1 canine remains.

I had to set up first. This game we did not do a special board set up.

I had to set up first.

I set my models center of my deployment zone and he did the same right across from me. SPA and ashes/dust set up at the 6 inch line alice levi dog were back toward table edge.

First turn

I spent the start of the turn wearing him out of activations.

I killed off the dog to make second waif and gave ashes/dust reactivate. Alice was moved 4 inch to the right hand side. I so wish she could walk faster she kills me with how slow she is. He planted all his nightmares about 6 inch back from the treasure. He lines up the day dreams to form a line. Eye ball freak and a stitched was placed on the treasure. Stitched picked up treasure and did a 4 inch move back.

As he ran out of actions I moved up the 2 spa mid field. Ashes and dust moved in to base with the spa for 0. I had him move once and charged eye ball freak. I thought about going after stiched but it would just give him another activation and let him take the treasure closer to his goal if I killed eye ball boy, then walked 5 back toward my center deployment. I moved ash back and broke him up.

Turn two

Had some thing of a stand off turn 2.

I burned my only soul stone to try and win the first action. I failed. I had done this as I was in range of a chomp bomb on Alice and wanted to get her out of range. He did not take advantage of this and just moved back the stitched.

Many people who play me note my amazing bad luck 8 cards this turn and my high card was a 6. Due to terrain I was unable to target the right hand daydream and the rest was out of Levi range. I did not manage to do any thing on turn 2 but kill him. Ash and dust was reformed but Alice did not have the cards to reactivate him. I moved her up 2x to get to the right hand side and move up field a bit. Ash/dust just managed to move across the field break up and get in range for a combine next turn.

Turn 3 was the point that everything fell apart. I got a better hand but ran in to the normal situation of if I am close enough to hit any thing on the other side i am in range to be chomp food. I had to move him out of mid field if I was going to draw my line. Levi was placed forward Shooting for the goal of killing the daydream before he could land chomp on my head. Again he got the first action. Chomp was placed down and thanks to onslaught killed levi in one action moved forward and killed off ashes preventing me from bringing him back. I was not even able to shoot him with alice as he got an all done and went away. Alice was also unable to kill the daydream.

Turn 4 he won first action yet again. He was well within range to kill Alice and left with just levi to fight him I had 0 of my goals he had treasure in his deployment.

At this point I quit.

So again for the 4th game in a row chomp smashed me like a chump.

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Well I think your list and the way you played it was sorta asking for it. Ashes and Dust is great, but he is very expensive and the Dreamer can take him out of the running with a solid hit or two. You also had a speed based Strategy and did not bring anything that was terribly fast.

Plus you were playing Treasure Hunt, a Strategy Dreamer is very good at and one that Levy is not very good at. Dreamer is much faster and the Stitched Together is the perfect Treasure carrier and you had nothing in your list to pull things back. Going in you probably should have brought a Hunter or the Mechanical rider for their drag, maybe even the Dead Rider. But you went into a speed fight with not a ton of speed and relying on a few models to keep up with him, not a great idea. You had only 3 danger points in your list (3 models that actually offered a real threat), A&D, Alyce, and Levy. With so few he can either avoid them, or pick them off.

For that battle, the Dreamer player did very well, he did everything he should have and protected his crew perfectly it sounds. He's a very competent player from the sound of it so it's never going to be an easy fight.

In this case, It's hard to say what you could have done better. You brought the wrong list to this kind of fight I think. The strongest thing about the Dreamer is his ability to reposition himself and his crew so quickly. Since you had line in the sand, I'm really surprised you didn't bring fast models. The Riders + Spa's are a very nice speed combo and the Riders are trouble for every one of his models. So I would have invested in them and maybe a Hunter. The Mechanical Rider and the Dead Rider both have the ability to drag things so that would have been a very good counter for his Treasure Hunt and the Hooded Rider will kill nearly anything it touches.

One thing you did say, " normal situation of if I am close enough to hit any thing on the other side i am in range to be chomp food" some times you just have to bite the bullet and blitz him. The Dreamer reacts poorly most of hte time if you blitz his deployed crew and just run straight into them. LCB is nasty yes, but if you give him bait in the form of your crew and keep Levy hovering nearby.. he isn't going to risk it. If he pops up, Levy will kill him before he can get away unless he gets his trigger. Now there isn't a ton you can do about this, so as i said, TOUGH MODELS. You either need to out last his first strike, or out speed it. Take tough or fast models (or tough fast models like the Riders). A&D is great! But he is to many points in one basket and LCB can to easy kill his parts once he splits. Seariously man, start using tough undead and constructs, things like the Guardian, Ice Golem/Gamin, Samari Punk Zombies, Guild Autopsys, etc etc. But like I said, if you have a speed based Strategy, take some serious speed like the Riders.

On Alyce... I'm beginning to wonder how practical she is any more. She is to expensive for how slow she is, she suffers from the same curse as Teddy and the Executioner by not having any kind of Expert ability. Plus she has way to much she needs to do in a single turn... she really should have had Fast or Ranged Expert ><. I'm starting to leave her out and just focusing on cycling Levy more often. I'd say drop her for Ryle, he hits harder and is much faster. Line up things for Ryle to use Socially Repressed and push away from Levy and towards where he wants to be. Ryle can also do much more damage then her with her gun, but it takes some more luck. Even then, I think he is better in every way BUT the fact that she gives him a card. So thats my thought on it, axe Alyce and put in Ryle and just make sure Levy dies every turn, take his scheme for this to and just make sure someone saves an AP to kill him.

I honestly think, Levy's Vanilla models are not suited for fighting the Dreamer in most cases. Look to all the other undead and constructs in the game and try to piece something together from that. But you also have to play to your strategy when ever you can (you did well this time, but your crew could have been better tweaked for it). I'm still working on the doc for fighting the Dreamer when I have time, so hopefully that soonish ><.

Edited by karn987
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Well thanks for the feed back. I am a little shocked you put some of it.

Ash/dust while very expensive is also very very fast with Alice. Case in point eye ball boy was killed and I was out of there first turn with him. At the local tournament when I played this list In a shared treasure hunt in the middle of a 4 inch patch of difficult terrain I was able to grab the treasure and get it back in my deployment zone first turn. You are correct It is a lot of points lumped in to one tactic. I was using him as I am trying different units to see what I can get some results with.

What I find so funny is I have no problem with the other parts of the crew its all ways chomp alone who stomps me.

I do plan on getting a rider to try here soon and see how he works out but have been waiting on local store to get the model in.

Edited by tadaka
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Well I shouldn't say A&D is slow.. my bad, keep forgetting he has Fast heh.

He can cover a lot of ground by just moving (15"!) or even more if you set up long range Contorts like you say you wanted to. But it is a lot of points for a model who's main toughness is breaking appart and reforming which LCB can counter to easily for my taste to bring him in anything but a theme list vs Dreamer. Thats why I like the Riders, 4-5ss cheaper and can hit just as hard. They also have the ability to hit and run and diversify their play style. So I still say give all the Riders a try. I think they all have various uses against the Dreamer.

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