So I got the Som'er Box...

[InfamousChicken]

After hearing the high praises of Malifaux and seeing the fabulous models, I bought the Som'er Teeth Jones box. I have it built up and primed. (I just need to get paints)

The problem is this: I currently don't have anyone to play with, so I'll need to get a second group so that I can teach others.

What should I get to build up the Som'er group to around 35ss? I kind of like the idea of a gremlin gun line...

Also, what would be a group that would be fun (not an auto-win either way) to use against the gremlins and also provide contrast to the gremlins so that I would have a variety of groups once other people start playing?

[Dumb Luck]

The Gremlin gunline is definitely the way to go. When you add pigs, the warband has competing objectives in terms of play style. The pigs want to rush into combat but the Gremlins want to stand back and shoot. And then neither gets accomplished.

Mind you, its highly likely I haven't gotten the hang of Somer. As much as I liked the guy, I still think planning a warband around having your guys die is a daft idea. If you're going down the gunline route, I can't vouch for Opheila enough. She negates the gang's biggest weakness (Whoops) and gives you 6 more soulstones onto your crew.

As for buys with Somer, I'd say a Mossie (flying then using Pull my Finger is glorious) or Pere/Rami to deal with hard stuff.

And more Gremlins naturally.

[InfamousChicken]

Would the following list be any good? And is it legal?

Som'er, 2 Mossies, 6 Gremlins, Ophelia, and Rami

How many soulstones should I leave available?

[Omenbringer]

The above is legal and pretty good. Dont worry to much about extra soulstones for the gremlins it limits their strength. The above configuration will make a decent Gunline.

As for good counter gremlin crews (that aren't auto-win), the Ortega's, Nicodem, and Rasputina aren't bad choices.

Also the balanced Some'r list doesn't suffer from competing objectives more like specialized roles. Use the pig boomerang to tie up the enemy while your gremlins acomplish the Strategies and Schemes for your crew. Some'r just sort of sits back and supports the rest of the crew by pumping out more and more piglets and gremlins.

[thaehl]

The gremlins are really hard to get the hang of, but easily one of my favorite crews. The gun line was my least favorite way to go, until the Ophelia box was released, I like the crew you built, it would work great, and i would love to try it myself.

You were also asking for another crew to counteract the gremlins, hmmm. I would go with either Colette or Ramos, they have powers that are totally different, Ramos in particular is easy to pick up, but hard to master, so he is a good master to learn with, and should be a fun fight.

[InfamousChicken]

Thank you all! :1:

I think I will build the earlier Gremlin list and build a Ramos group as opposition.

His models seem really cool and I like the forming and reforming of the spiders.

Thanks again!

InfamousChicken

Oh, and any further advice would always be appreciated.

[Darguth]

Anyone have any recommendations for a good 30-35SS builds for So'mer that aren't gunlines? Is a hybrid list of pigs/gremlins viable? I like the flavor of the pigs too much not to use them, but it seems everyone either runs Gunline/So'mer or Gunline/Ophelia

[Gremlin Swarm]

I recently ran a Pigapult/Taxidermist crew. Loads of fun. (I had to proxy the 'Pult, 'Dermist, and the Stuffed Piglets, though.)

The Taxidermist would provide Stuffed Piglets for the Pigapult, and, if necessary, the Mosquito I kept near the 'Pult would Sooey them over.

Not too much different from a gunline (Gremlin artillery crew?), but still a lot of fun, especially when I got to steal a couple of corpse counters from from under Seamus' nose.

[InfamousChicken]

An artillery crew sounds like a lot of fun!

What did your list consist of?

InfamousChicken

[Omenbringer]

Anyone have any recommendations for a good 30-35SS builds for So'mer that aren't gunlines? Is a hybrid list of pigs/gremlins viable? I like the flavor of the pigs too much not to use them, but it seems everyone either runs Gunline/So'mer or Gunline/Ophelia

I use a balanced pig/gremlin list most of the time with Some'r and perfer it. I have also used the Pig heavy list with great success (using what I coined the Pig Boomerang). It is a lot more difficult then his usual antics because of the uncontrolled pigs but once you understand how it works your pigs will fly where you want them too most of the time. The main problem with it is that it is expensive to build.

[InfamousChicken]

Omenbringer, what is the "Pig Boomerang"?

[Omenbringer]

The "Pig Bommerang" is a tactic which gives a bit of control to stampeding piggies. In order to really run it effectively you will need at least 1 Hog Whisperer, 2 Skeeters, and a squadron of Piggies (I perfer to run 1 Warpig with 2 Piglets).

Order of activation is very important with this.

First you activate the Whisperer who gives all the piggies in range (should be all of them) Flight thru "Never Happen..." (so you dont have to worry about terrain blocking your charge lanes), he gives one of them Reactivate (usually the Warpig) thru "Stik'm in tha ass!" and finally either "Sooeet Nothin's" (to limit the Dg incured from Stik'm in tha ass!) or Pork Whisper'n (to protect against accidental pig charges caused by bad placement later).

Next you activate a Skeeter and fly him toward your intended victim and cast "Sooey!" via magical extension. Push the flying pigs toward the skeeter (try to block the Piggies LOS to him so he doesn't get charged. Usually pretty easy with the amount of terrain that Malifaux suggests). Also be sure to use the Warpig to block the piglets LOS to unintended targets.

Next activate the Piglets, which should Stampede (because they should be out of range of a Gremlin). With careful placement during the earlier push from Sooey! and the Warpig blocking LOS to unintended targets they should pigcharge the what you want them to. Use "Reckless fast" if you want to (I usually do since it ups the Dg potential) Also try to work in the "Bowled over" trigger in order to set up your other Piggies.

Next activate the Warpig and repeat the above. In the event you couldn't block LOS to your guiding skeeter, then be sure to cheat the Pigcharge Attack low to avoid losing him.

Finally, (the boomerang part) Activate your other skeeter fly him to your next lane and cast Sooey! via magical extension to bring the squadron back home and set them up again for next turns bombing run.

This tactic usually works better if you focus on one target at a time (until it is dead, dead, dead), then trying to Dg a bunch. Reactivate him and do it all again.

You will also notice that I leave Som'er out of this equation, that is so he can focus on the summoning schenanigans safely in the back field and either produce a Gremlin gunline (to better assist with strategy/scheme completion) or Pig squadron reinforcements (if it suits the strategy/scheme). Like I said earlier it is a lot of points to run because of the mandatory support models. It also might take awhile to get the hang of controlling the pigcharges thru prior planning and blocking LOS but once you get that, it is incredibly fun to run (even more so if you hum Flight of the Valkyries as the piggies fly to their target). Hopefully that was a pretty clear description of how it works, if not let me know and I will try to explain it better.

[Darguth]

In the few games I've played I have run the Pigcharge barrage very early in the game, to tie up the enemy while I summoned guys. Though I admit I misplayed it (only played 2 games so far) in that I did not think of the fact that the Mosquito's "Sooey!" would case them to start Pigcharging him, since he's the closest non-Pig model. So that will need to be accounted for.

I think one of my largest problems with Som'er's crew so far is just how low all of their Cb ratings are, and I don't feel like just throwing in Rami or something since I feel like that breaks the theme of his crew (and the Lacroix's just don't interest me as much). So I'll probably start proxying a Slop Hauler until the models become available.

So, here are the 35ss and 25ss lists I'm thinking of trying next time around. My usual opponents consist of Pandora, Lilith, Perdita, Lady Justice, McMourning, and Leveticus if that makes any difference

Soulstones: 35

- Som'er Teeth Jones (0)

- Hog Whisperer (5)

- Slop Hauler (4)

- Warpig (8)

- 3x Piglets (9)

- 1x Bayou Gremlin (2)

- 3x Giant Mosquitoes (6)

-----

Cache: 1

Soulstones: 25

- Som'er Teeth Jones

- Hog Whisperer (5)

- Slop Hauler (4)

- 3x Piglets (9)

- 1x Bayou Gremlin (2)

- 2x Giant Mosquitoes (4)

-----

Cache: 1

My basic strategy is to send everything except for Som'er, one Bayou Gremlin, and one Mosquito out as a large, singular unit. Use the stampeding pigs to tie up the majority of enemy forces and generally just cause havoc with the middle of the board. The Hog Whisperer is used to make them even more effective and then the Slop Hauler and supporting Mosquitoes are meant to help deal with high Df problems like Perdita and Lilith.

Then Som'er just sits in back and churns out as many Gremlins as he can, and sends them scampering around the board to claim objectives or in support of the main force if it's a more combat-oriented stratagem I pulled. He'll only turn them into more Mosquitoes as they die or more Piglets if I both need them to shore up the main force and I have the suit in hand to cheat his Pigsticker Strike.

My main concern lies with the fragility of the Slop Hauler combined with how pivotal he'd be in taking out high Df targets that I usually just won't be able to touch (like anything Df:7 or higher ). Especially without the low-Df models of my own to use as targets to then splash off onto, like you can do with Young Lacroixs. The Piglets and Giant Mosquitoes, the most expendable parts of that forward unit, are both high Df so even with cheating on them it might be hard to guarantee a neutral twist flip for damage so I can cheat it up to get a blast (and therefore hit the higher Df targets I'm really gunning for). This means he would have to run in and use his automatic AOE debuff, and that seems to be a suicided mission so I only really get one turn of the effect to capitalize on. Any advice on how to maximize the Hauler's use in a Piggie list?

I'm also not sure if the Hog Whisperer is really worth running in a low SS game, like in the 25ss list above? Without the Warpig to Reactivate I feel he loses a lot of value. Do you think you'd recommend ditching him for just more Piglets/Mosquitoes to start out with?

[Omenbringer]

Your usual opponent masters are some of the more difficult for Gremlins to beat. There are some good strategies out there in some other threads. My biggest recomendation is to keep at the crew and your game plan.

You could drop either the hog whisperer or the Slop hauler in a Low SS game to get another pig or gremlin, they do overlap a bit in abilities. Dont worry to much about High Defense models, with the gremlins it is all about quantity not quality. Both of you will be running thru about a third of your decks just resolving your pig charges (not including any Dg you actually generate). Eventually they are going to pull those low cards while you pull your high.

Edited October 17, 2010 by Omenbringer

[SweatyDemon]

Use A Gremlin's Luck to drain your opponents hand. When they can't cheat and you can, it helps turn the balance in your favor despite the low Cb. Of course, masters are a different story.

[Darguth]

Just played against Lilith tonight in a tiny 20ss game and she smoked my Slop Hauler in a single hit. It's almost impossible to stay out of her aggro range. I got VERY lucky and killed her with a Parasytic Infestation from a skeeter but if it weren't for that I honestly just feel I don't have enough strikes in my entire crew to force her to mill cards and Soulstones to the point I could actually put any damage on her

[Omenbringer]

Against Lilith, the "Skeeter Alpha Stank" is probably the best way to go.

[marcuzi]

how many wounds does lilith have?

cause you can plink a maximum of 8 per turn right?

also does stanking cause damage to the mozzies as well

[JayBarlekamp]

@marcuzi - yes the mozzies do damage each other, so you have to make sure they are out of each other's range

[Darguth]

@marcuzi - yes the mozzies do damage each other, so you have to make sure they are out of each other's range

Which makes it nigh-impossible to get all 4 skeeters in range to cast "Pull My Finger" without getting at least 1-2 accidentally hitting another skeeter. That, combined with the fact that you need a 10 I believe for a skeeter to cast it, it's very unlikely to reach that max of 8 in a turn. It's a theoretical maximum, but not a very practical maximum. More likely you'd be able to get 2 off successfully in a turn, unless you've been saving cards for the tactic.

Also, with Lilith you would need to be VERY careful because of her whirlwind ability. I believe she has a 2" reach with her Greatsword and then the stank is a 3" pulse, so you want to be further than 2" but less than 3" from her. Which is hard to pull off really easily. Especially given how fast she can move, positioning your skeeters so they can all fly 10" and still be within 3" and not overlapping one another with pulses seems like an rather unlikely scenario. And if you don't she'll get a lot of easy kills on your skeeters and leave you with none. Sure you can make more, but that takes time.

And that is essentially the crux of my dilemma, our two best tactics for high Df targets like Lilith are found in "Pull My Finger" and Slop Haulers' debuffs. Neither of which will likely give you more than one attempt at it before they get cleaved from the board, so it's really a one-shot to try to level the playing field or lose. We just don't have any kind of reliable high Cb beatstick like most crews have available to them. The Warpig is meant to be our main bruiser and he can cause tons of damage to weaker minions, but he still just can't hit the really tough guys.

Edited October 19, 2010 by Darguth

[Omenbringer]

The Stuffed Pig bomb might be another good way to address Lilith.

[Darguth]

The Stuffed Pig bomb might be another good way to address Lilith.

That's true. They have the potential for higher damage output, averaging 2.5 Dg per explosion rather than just the 2 Dg from "Pull My Finger". Additionally, I don't have the cards right in front of me, but I'm pretty sure getting them to voluntarily blow up is much easier than casting "Pull My Finger" from a skeeter. And they'll explode upon death as well, so there is less of a concern of Lilith killing them all off before they can do their dirty work. Plus, Lilith's crew is pretty lights on any sort of ranged attacks, so having them blow up in your face or before they reach melee range is unlikely.

Actually, that might be the best bet. I'll have to give it a whirl next time.

Edit: I forget, can you cheat the explosion flip for the Stuffed Piglets? If so, that makes it even more reliable, so you can ditch lower value cards of whichever suits do the 3-4 damage pulses.

Edited October 20, 2010 by Darguth

[Omenbringer]

You can not cheat "Bacon Bomb"

[PrairieDog6]

If Mortimer is allowed to cheat Exhume, why can't we cheat Bacon Bomb?

[Darguth]

If Mortimer is allowed to cheat Exhume, why can't we cheat Bacon Bomb?

Because Exhume specifically was Errata'd to be cheatable. Otherwise you're only ever allowed to cheat something in 3 scenarios:

1.) During a Duel where you don't have a negative twist.

2.) For a Damage Flip where you don't have a negative twist.

3.) When a flip specifically states it can be cheated.

Since Bacon Bomb's flip is neither for a duel or a damage flip it can't be cheated unless it says it can specifically. Which it doesn't, unfortunately.