Showgirl Tactica

[MrNybbles]

Version 2010-10-18

Several updates and additions. Some are about important things often overlooked.

Added subsection Actions don't require Line of Sight. Not needing LOS for Actions and Triggers may take your opponent by surprise so I suggest talking to them about this before hand.

Renamed subsection Use Soulstone to Use Soulstone & other Soulstone Uses. Updated the contents to include Re-flipping for Individual Strategies and re-flip for initiative.

Moved the reference for Coryphee & Lost in Dance back where it should be which got pushed below the reference for subsection Scheme: Kidnap (Neverborn Only).

Some misc updates of the references to other threads to look nicer.

Renamed subsection Recursive Mannequin and Companion (Showgirl) to Mannequin and Companion (Showgirl) is not Recursive to make the intent of the subsection clear.

Moved subsection Performers and Mannequins: Willpower and Mercenary to section [Gotchas and Reminders].

The Tactica is now about 10 printed pages in size. (Times New Roman, 12pt). I'm beginning to worry about hitting a post-size limit or something. The next version of the Errata will be out soon so that will likely be the cause of the next update.

I should probably add something on being still able to recruit Johan if you take Von Shill.

[xxXhayzelXxx]

Thank you soooo much for this! Noobs such as myself can really understand them now!

Thank you <3

xxXhayzelXxx

[MrNybbles]

Thank you soooo much for this! Noobs such as myself can really understand them now!

Thank you <3

xxXhayzelXxx

You are very welcome!

Version 2010-10-21

Renamed subsection Performers and Mannequins: Willpower and Mercenary to Performers and Mannequins: Willpower and made corrections on Opposed Wp Duels. This is mostly related to using the Performer and players playing with/against Pandora.

Updated subsections Performers and Mannequins a little.

Added subsection Vs Pandora to section [General Showgirl Tactics].

[88elite]

Love the tactica. Great help.

Was wondering though what you have for running Kaeris with the showgirls. Haven't had time to try her out myself, as well as i like other points of view.

[MrNybbles]

Love the tactica. Great help.

Thank you! :dance:

Was wondering though what you have for running Kaeris with the showgirls.

Kaeris doesn't have great synergy with just the Showgirls, though this isn't actually a drawback. She has synergy with herself and Burning Counters. Oddly enough she has anti-construct and anti-M&SU properties (Kindling & Resource Management) which can be used against your opponent if he is using those types of crews.

Her best trick with Colette is to cast Overheat on a Mechanical Dove to inflict burning counters. The only thing I don't like about this is to use her spells you may need to cheat in some good control cards which I often find get depleted trying to keep Cassandra alive on some turns. Immolate is the only one that requires a resist duel and Accelerant requires a 6:tomes or better.

If you were playing a Brawl with Colette, Ramos or Hoffman, and Kaeris you should have good synergy through your constructs. Here are some legal Brawl team-ups.

[Faction - Masters & Henchmen]

Guild - C. Hoffman, Ramos, Kaeris.

Arcanist - Colette, C. Hoffman, Kaeris.

Arcanist - Colette, Ramos, Kaeris.

Arcanist - Kaeris, C. Hoffman.

Arcanist - Kaeris, Ramos.

Notes:

1) C. Hoffman can hire Ramos via Archanist Ties.

2) Ramos can hire Kaeris as a M&SU Asset (Rising Powers p.34) when he is hired into a non-Arcanist faction.

3) Kaeris may be used as the leader instead of a Master. When doing so you may ONLY hire M&SU Members and M&SU Assets. C. Hoffman is a M&SU Member so he may be hired by Kaeris.

4) Colette can hire C. Hoffman via Union Labor. Remember: look for the union label!

5) Which Faction you choose is actually important and plays a huge part in your hiring restrictions. Arcanist Ties may allow C. Hoffman to hire some Arcanist models, but if your faction is the Guild then you must pay the extra Soulstone when hiring each one.

6) Ramos may hire M&SU Assets without limits, but has no such rule regarding M&SU Members. In other words Ramos can't hire C. Hoffman.

Right now the only (Arcanist) totem Kaeris can take is Essence of Power which you can use to Link to one of your spell casters. Maybe by the third expansion rulebook she will have her own totem.

Keep in mind that both Ramos and C. Hoffman may take the Mobile Toolkit totem which can add +:tomes to Ca. For Kaeris this will trigger Surge and will make casting Accelerant easier. For Colette this makes casting Disappearing Act and triggering Mannequin Replacement easier.

Planned Updates:

Add section on Strategies.

Add section on Schemes.

Add section on Brawls (including hiring C. Hoffman).

Update Johan's entry to include being hired as a M&SU member so Freikorps Mercenary abilities don't prevent you from hiring him.

[MrNybbles]

Version 2010-10-27

Added section Brawls with subsections Ramos, C. Hoffman, Kaeris, and Mobile Toolkit. The new Kaeris section is much more concise then what I posted in my last post.

Added section Strategies.

Added section Schemes.

Updated subsections for Johan, Convict Gunslinger, and a few misc fix-ups.

TODO: I'm not sure how well Von Schill will work with Colette. He and his Special Forces do look promising and in a large Brawl one Master can take Kaeris and the other take Von Schill.

[Mick_shady]

Thanks for putting this thread together and everyones comments.

I am in the process of gluing my box together now and I have only played two games as of yet. Reading this has given me more insight than I would have had in 5-10 games using them.

[LoboStele]

Nice updates man. I don't think you have Treasure Hunt explained properly though. Book 2 says that all models have their Walk reduced to 4" while carrying the counter, and they also lose Float/Flight while carrying the counter. I actually played a game with Treasure Hunt, and I do agree that Coryphee's are excellent for carrying the counter, simply because of their self-healing and good defense with the . Against a mostly melee crew though, like Ramos, Lillith, etc., Cassandra is AMAZING for Treasure Hunt. Using the Coryphees and Dance Partner, she can pretty easily swap up next to the Treasure Counter, and pick it up in the 1st round. Maybe even walk 4" back. Then the next round, using Nimble, walk another 12". Now she is practically back in your starting area already, and can safely be protected by the rest of the crew.

I also noticed that the numbering for your Schemes is off. Most of them say "2.".

Finally, there's an error under the Mobile Toolkit section for Brawls. The first line is missing the :tomes as a part of "+:tomes ca"

[MrNybbles]

Thanks for putting this thread together and everyones comments.

Nice updates man.

Thanks guys! It's always good to hear from people.

I don't think you have Treasure Hunt explained properly though.

It was written assuming you read the Treasure Hunt strategy in the rulebook. I don't want to reprint the entire Treasure Hunt strategy text, but need to do. . . something.

I do need to fix that and make it clear at the start that these restricted movements come into play when you are carrying the treasure. I'll try and fix that when I get back home. I'm short on time right now.

I also noticed that the numbering for your Schemes is off. Most of them say "2.".

[schemes]

This is a list of all the schemes available to Colette's crew (as of Rising Powers) and the maximum number of VP you can gain from each.

The schemes are not numbered, those are the maximum VP you can get from each scheme. I'll append VP to them in the next update to make reading the line more intuitive. I should also set the subsection names apart from the Scheme names.

Finally, there's an error under the Mobile Toolkit section for Brawls. The first line is missing the :tomes as a part of "+:tomes ca"

Power Ritual (Arcanists Only) is also missing the / in the closing tag. I'll fix these tonight too.

Additional TODO:

Add a subsection on Cassandra, Coryphee, Coryphee Duet about their Melee and Dance Partner Synergy. They may not be heavy hitters, but they can very quickly have numbers on their side. Okay, 2 or 3 in a scrap may not seem like much, but it will normally be enough.

EDIT:

This Halloween weekend has been unusually busy for me. I should get all of this done before next weekend.

[TODO LIST]

DONE: Add to section [Gotchas and Reminders] a note about a model's Reactivate activation not being immediately after the model's first activation. Also, I need to word it better than I did in this TODO list.

DONE: Fix wording for the Treasure Hunt subsection.

DONE: Add VP after the maximum number of VP you can gain from each scheme.

DONE: Fix BB Code typos in subsections Mobile Toolkit and Power Ritual (Arcanists Only).

DONE: Add a Showgirl Melee Combat section about Cassandra, Coryphee, and Coryphee Duet.

UPDATE: Added subsection on Soulstone Miner.

UPDATE: Mobile Toolkit section updated to include using Controlled Detonation.

UPDATE: Subsections Strategy: Slaughter & Soulstone Cost and Scheme: Kidnap (Neverborn Only) have been removed from section [Gotchas and Reminders] and added to sections Strategies and Schemes respectively. Both have undergone some major edits. I reread the rules on the Kidnap Scheme and realized what I wrote was out of touch with the rules. I'd kinda like to avoid that. O_o

UPDATE: Section [Gotchas and Reminders] got sorted a little bit.

UPDATE: Subsection Kaeris got some minor updates an a note on taking her in the Guild faction with C. Hoffman and Ramos as masters.

Version 2010-11-01a to d

Changed the thread's title from Showgirl Tactica to Showgirls Tactica.

Added Overview.

Removed the entry for Scheme: Perfect Performance (Colette Du Bois Only) & Drain Souls. Subsection Perfect Performance supersedes it and is also in the correct section of the Tactica.

Updated subsection Colette to include how to pronounce her surname and a few misc additions.

Updated subsection Soulstone Miner to focus more on what it's good at, Tunneling.

Updated subsection Kidnap (Neverborn Only) to clarify when models count toward scoring VP.

Added (Not Recommended) following entries for the Student of Conflict and Essence of Power totems. Essence of power is a good totem, even with Colette, but the doves are so much better. It is a good totem to take with Kaeris to use with Colette though.

Renamed subsection Actions don't require Line of Sight to Most Talents don't require Line of Sight and cleaned up the wording to make it a little more clear.

Sorted the subsections of section [Gotchas and Reminders].

Edited November 1, 2010 by MrNybbles

[MrNybbles]

Version 2010-11-04

Edited the opening paragraph and deleted the second one.

Edited subsection Assumptions and got rid of the redundant statement about the odds in subsection Mannequins, Showgirls & Mirrors. The redundant statement never clearly tied in to anything.

Added subsections Magical Extension is Once Per Activation! and Differences with Armor and Object to section [Gotchas and Reminders]. Thanks to Wodschow on the explanation on Armor and Object.

EDIT:

Version 2010-11-06

Added subsection Vs Leveticus because I can.

Added subsection Vs Lilith.

Updated subsection Mannequins to include new Fixing Mannequins abuse.

Added subsection Fixing Mannequins to section [Gotchas and Reminders]. This is actually very disturbing if you actually pay attention to what the rules let you get away with. This may get an errata in the future.

Version 2010-11-06b

Added a note about Black Blood not triggering when damaged/wounded with Ranged Strikes, Ranged Spells, or Poison.

Version 2010-11-08

Added subsection Joss.

Updated section [strategies] to include a reminder about your Strategy being selected before your crew is hired.

Edited November 8, 2010 by MrNybbles

[LoboStele]

Wow...very interesting on Fix Mannequin. I don't think I would ever abuse the rangeless aspect of it, but being able to fix yourself....hadn't caught that, and VERY useful. There's plenty of times where my Mannequin's waste their (1) action because they can't do anything useful with it (I usually try for Mirrors, but that only works like 10% of the time).

[MrNybbles]

Wow...very interesting on Fix Mannequin. I don't think I would ever abuse the rangeless aspect of it, but being able to fix yourself....hadn't caught that, and VERY useful.

. . .

I've read and re-read the Showgirls abilities many time over and didn't catch that myself until the last time I played. It's almost like an easter egg hunt and not finding the eggs until November.

I'm almost tempted to bring this up in the Rules Forum but asking to cuddle a Mannequin, possibly the least threatening model in the entire game, seems extremely weird, even by the standards of this forum.

TODO List

* Add new section Vs The Dreamer. Currently I have about a page of information on The Dreamer's defensive abilities, what they do, and what can be done to attack The Dreamer.

What won't be covered is what to do against the different crews he can take.

Teddy is an exception only because of the mechanics of Immune to Influence and the Performer's Wp Actions and Spells. (Basically Teddy can't be targeted by Wp duels so they don't protect The Dreamer against being targeted by Wp Duels).

Wadschow has some pending questions in Questions on Circumventing the Dreamer's Shadowy Form and at the very least the one about firing into melee has relevance to this (and probably all) Tacticas.

* Adding subsection on if Disengaging Strikes being a type of Attack so Irresistible, Harmless, Cb Triggers, and Df Triggers can still go off. Also, Flying does not ignore Disengaging Strikes. (Need to find a specific thread for a reference).

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=7353

[Q'iq'el]

I've read and re-read the Showgirls abilities many time over and didn't catch that myself until the last time I played. It's almost like an easter egg hunt and not finding the eggs until November.

I'm almost tempted to bring this up in the Rules Forum but asking to cuddle a Mannequin, possibly the least threatening model in the entire game, seems extremely weird, even by the standards of this forum.

I'm not sure this is the right approach to the problem. If Mannequins are too weak, they will get improved. They shouldn't have to justify their presence with something which looks somewhat abusive.

This is great Tactica and a very solid work. It's just that the Fix Mannequin trick starts to verge on gaming the game rather than playing the rules. Sure it seems correct RAW, but the very existence and the wording of the rule does not make much sense if the intention was an ability to self-heal.

[MrNybbles]

I'm not sure this is the right approach to the problem. If Mannequins are too weak' date=' they will get improved.[/quote']

I didn't mean to imply that they are too weak. I say they may be the least threatening models mostly because they are there to fill a utility roll, though they are capable of inflicting damage and wounds this is usually not the best use for them.

In the beginning when I first wrote the Tactica I didn't actually have much in the way to justify them other than they come free with the Performers. As I've played more games with them I've found them increasingly useful for using Colette's Illusionist and letting my opponents waste attacks attacking a Mannequin instead of something that can take objectives or count towards VP.

I still can't properly explain how valuable they actually are. To me, their use is always situational. Sometimes I Link them, sometimes I leave them by an opponent's Destroy the Evidence objective marker because when locked in melee the marker can't be taken, and sometimes walk them into danger and swap Colette in, attack, and swap her out for Coryphee.

Strangely enough their Talents and Spells (other than Link and Armor) have little to do with how useful they actually are.

Thank you. This isn't just my work but a lot of people in the forum have had indirect influence on this. This Tactica is a manifestation of a lot of people's questions, answers, experiences, hopes, desires, dreams of the community, and a touch of Nathan & Eric's blood, sweat, and tears.

When you see stuff under Reference that's what you are looking at.

[Q'iq'el]

I think they are overloaded with the amount of fixes and corrections needed after introducing so many new and complex models and rules. Hopefully someone reads all these tactics and flags the points where the rules are clearly producing weird results.

Seeing how effort of the community goes into composing these documents, it'd be quite an efficient way to find tactics and moves discovered by the players, which are not intended by the designers.

And I do not criticize your approach at all. If anything, it makes perfect sense to publish a find like this. It's just that presenting it as an "easter egg" gives, IMHO, an impression it was a nice little trick hidden deep within the rules so that only the smart players found it and then sprung it on their unsuspecting opponents.

I'd rather present it as a nasty quirk no sporting player would ever use for the fear of getting slapped with a smelly salmon by the closest represent of the Malifaux community.

As much as Malifaux is a complex game full of interesting correlations and synergies to discover and use to your advantage, it still is based on open ruleset and the idea that players who put equal effort into learning the rules are on equal footing when it comes to their interpretation. Deep reading of the rules doesn't lead to such gaming environment, most of the time.

I also think there's a difference between easter egg and a loophole. The first is a mechanic somewhat hard to spot, but clearly an intended one. The later is a mechanic which works RAW, but clearly opposes the spirit of the rules.

In other words, it's likely a bug which should be reported as such and dealt with.

[MrNybbles]

It's just that presenting it as an "easter egg" gives' date=' IMHO, an impression it was a nice little trick hidden deep within the rules so that only the smart players found it and then sprung it on their unsuspecting opponents.[/quote']

I'm not presenting it as an 'Easter Egg', you're thinking of the wrong meaning of an 'Easter Egg'. I meant a literal egg you decorate and leave for children to find in the month of April to celebrate the unusual event of an executed Jew coming back from the dead. This is what I meant by Easter Egg.

I certainly did not mean an Easter Egg as a hidden joke or nice surprise, I meant it as analogy to finding something you knew was there all along and just discovered how bad it turned out. If you don't understand the analogy then try leaving a hard boiled egg sitting around in your house unrefrigerated for 7 months and see if it goes bad.

[LoboStele]

Remember that against Teddy, the Coryphee's have a Cb Trigger which can remove immunities. So that's one way to get around the Teddy's Wp immunity.

[MrNybbles]

The idea isn't bad, but there are a few things that make relying on Coryphee or Coryphee Duet's Enchanting Performance trigger problematic.

1) It requires a Coryphee/Coryphee Duet and a Performer to both be in play. (Not so bad).

2) It requires Coryphee or Coryphee to inflict damage and to have a :tomes in the attack duel to trigger Enchanting Performance. (This uses a valuable control card and maybe a Soulstone to add to the attack duel. Still, not so bad).

3) It is then a good idea for Coryphee/Coryphee Duet to either disengage and not get stopped or for it to successfully cast Blinding and push out of the way. (This may use a second control card. Now this is getting a bit costly).

4) The Performer's Siren Call is a spell so it may end up hitting the Coryphee/Coryphee Duet if it is still locked in melee combat with Teddy. (It is costly to give the Performer Use Soulstone which could be useful to insure the spell will hit. Resources could be running low by now).

Casting Disappearing Act with Colette is easier to pull off because it relies on one model and one attack which benefits from spending a Soulstone to add to the casting total (though you should have a high :tomes to cheat in). With Luck, Mannequin Replacement will also trigger. The downside to this is if The Dreamer or a Daydream have not activated then Teddy can be returned to the board unless it was replaced by a Mannequin.

The Enchanting Performance trigger seems to be there mostly to allow Coryphee/Coryphee Duet's Blinding attack to be used on models with a Wp immunity. Still, with two attacks you may be able to Paralyze a Teddy.

[LoboStele]

I didn't say it was necessarily a good tactic, just that it was an option. Since the Performer's are so dependent on Wp, I was just pointing out that there was a way to make Teddy vulnerable in that regard. Being able to use Seduction on a piece like Teddy would be nice.

[MrNybbles]

I'm not tossing the idea out completely, but for all the resources you put into it (activations, Soulstones, Control Cards) are you getting your proverbial moneys worth?

You probably can kill a Teddy in 3 activations (possibly using the Mannequin's Companion(Showgirls) to activate the right 3 Showgirls. This won't be easy, but the theory seems sound enough. The only problem is that on average I usually get 2 high control cards, and sometimes just 1.

We assume Teddy already activated this turn.

1) Coryphee Duet uses (0) Soul Dancer to gain Use Soulstone and (0) Sword Dance.

2) Coryphee Duet moves and attacks Teddy (thanks to Sword Dance) and triggers Enchanting Performance. Teddy looses Immune to Influence.

3) Coryphee Duet (2) Channels Blinding on Teddy. If Coryphee Duet wins the duel by 11+ Then Teddy's Hard to Wound is negated. Damage flip is cheated to severe inflicting Paralyzed.

4) Performer uses (1) Poison Gift on Teddy inflicting 4 Poison Counters. (The Performer also has passed the Terrifying Morale Duel).

5) Performer casts Seduction on Teddy.

Teddy currently has 3 Wd inflicted, 4 Poison Counters, is Paralyzed, and has lost Immune to Influence until the end of the turn. Teddy will regenerate 2 wounds and loose 4 wounds (due to Poison) at the start of it's next activation.

If you can inflict 4 more Wd on teddy then he will die at the start of his next activation.

This isn't exactly straightforward and if Coryphee Duet flips a Black Joker at any point you could end up in a bit of trouble. It still feels like the odds on triggering Mannequin Replacement are higher than getting this to work because you must win a few key duels.

It is probably always better to use Colette to try to trigger Mannequin Replacement on Teddy and use the Performers on the non-Teddies. The Performers are still far from useless. So far no Nightmare has Use Soulstone so they can still cast Expensive Gift on The Dreamer.

Joss and/or the Steamborg Executioner may be good models to use to kill a Teddy.

There is still a lot to consider with The Dreamer and his crew.

[88elite]

Regarding Disappearing Act....i thought models can only be unburied when the effect that buried lets them.

reference please....don't wanna be cheatin and all.

[LoboStele]

I'm pretty sure MrNybbles has a link in the first post of the thread to where we had the discussion about burying, and WeirdSketch confirmed that the Dreamer could un-bury anything, regardless of where the effect originated. For instance, just look at the fluff. In the one story, a Death Marshall pine-boxes one of the nightmares, only for it to disappear from his box, and come right back out to attack him again.

@ MrNybbles: I fully agree with your scenario there. I am definitely learning how to utilize the Performers a bit more though. The last couple weeks I've gone back to playing both Performer/Mannequin pairs in my 35 SS army, instead of swapping one of the pairs for the Gunsmith or Johan. I even had to play against Pandora last night, running both Teddy and the Hooded Rider, both with Immune to Influence. Used Disappearing Act once on Teddy mostly to put him out of position for charging anything important (he ended up charging a Mannequin, and got Severe damage for a one-hit kill, haha). But with Cassandra's 2-3 attacks, and Colette's 2-3 Magician's Duels, Teddy dropped pretty easily. I got lucky against the Hooded Rider with a Red Joker + Severe damage flip from the Coryphee, haha. But overall, I found that the Performer's were not at too much of a disadvantage in that game.

2nd game last night was against a Viks crew and I was able to make very nice use of Mesmerizing, Poison Ring, Precious, and Irresistable.

Also, for the first time, managed to get both Mannequins to successfully cast Mirrors in the same round...without cheating from my hand! Couldn't believe it, haha. Was fairly helpful, as it kept my Coryphees very nicely protected in one round. Cover + Mirrors = pretty much no damage.

[MrNybbles]

Regarding Disappearing Act....i thought models can only be unburied when the effect that buried lets them.

reference please....don't wanna be cheatin and all.

No problem. This is a link to the exact ruling that Weird posted. Burying and related effects It overrides his previous ruling in the same thread.

I'm pretty sure MrNybbles has a link in the first post of the thread to where we had the discussion about burying, and WeirdSketch confirmed that the Dreamer could un-bury anything, regardless of where the effect originated.

Actually I haven't updated the Tactica with this information yet. I've been holding back waiting until we get enough rulings to get a good grasp on how the rules actually work together. Due to real life the update may be sometime mid next week.

It's good to hear battle reports from people so I can see the similarities and differences of different players. I have yet to get Mirrors to trigger without cheating so you are very lucky.

So far I have information on what the models can do, but not really anything about how they are normally used. I'll start changing that in the next update.

[LoboStele]

Well, I do think last night was the first time I've ever got mirrors to trigger without cheating. I mean, after 20 or so games, with attempting to cast mirrors at least 2-3 times per game (probably more) you're bound to get one eventually.

[JustAnotherDummy]

Thanks for a very informative tactica! Learned a lot about the Showgirls and have finally gotten into the groove using them.

I have to second this statement of irregularity in the tactica, though. I, too, read the updated description of Treasure Hunt to be a flat maximum Wk of 4, not a reduction by 4. From Rising Powers, p.60: "A model carrying the Counter reduces its Wk to 4."

Has this been changed elsewhere? The current errata says nothing about changing it (it adds a paragraph that now appears in the Rising Powers description), and I had difficulty finding a reference to a change anywhere in the forums.