Malifaux Model Tier Project

[Dolomyte]

That's great if you don't like me or think I'm an obnoxious prick. I don't care, I have the arguments posted to back my talk. If you don't agree with it, challenge it; the facts don't lie. Find something that doesn't work in my argument, please do, in fact I want you to, so I can better find the problems and learn how to fix it.

No hostility meant, but I offered to arrange my job so i can come up and play you on your home turf, an hour and a half north of me.

Name the place and the time, I'll name the date. You are a master at theorymachine and shouting with your fist flailing, i'll give you that. But put the metal to the table and let's see how broken your "rankings" really are. Heck, give us your top three and your bottom three, the community can pick who I play you with from the bottom three, I've got them all. you can pick who to fight me with from your top three.

I've on these very boards been accused of being the guy who likes to come in last, admitted that I am incapable of counting cards in a way that would be successful at anythign other then a game with five year olds, and am willing to travel. Your hard tested battle proven game breaking destroyer of worlds masters should own my face.

Edited September 30, 2010 by Dolomyte

[Werecat]

This may or may not be my favorite thread of all time. Well played gentlemen.

[Raintar]

Rankings in order pre-Rising Powers:

Top 3

(Best)Pandora

Rasputina

Lady Justice

Bottom 3

(Worst) Ramos

Marcus

Som'er Teeth

[Murphy'sLawyer]

I will only say the community has spoken. Let's all try to play nice and try to treat others with respect.

And Raintar you are not the great and wise sage of Wyrd. That's WEiRD sKeTCH's job. The rest of us are worthless idiots wondering in the dark.:no:

Now let's end the :tj:

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

First off, I'd like to see this thread flourish and not degrade into name calling and sniping remarks at one another.

Secondly, I don't think any of you are worthless idiots wandering in the dark. I do, in fact like a bunch of you.

[Murphy'sLawyer]

Awwww. He likes us.:love:

[Dolomyte]

I hope the community picks som'er for me, and in honor of that, because I dont think i've seen him ranked, i'll do him.

Som'er Teeth Jones:

OF: 1

DE: 1 (DF 6, plus Squeel!)

RA: 2 (Boomer, 10 inch range, blast templates always sexy)

MA: 1 (Suits a non issue, his most cast spell needs a 11 or higher)

ME: 0 (would always pull my finger over the pig sticker)

UT: 2 (Gremlin's luck, Git Y'er Bro, Take a swig, Survival of the fittest)

DO: 1 (reliable 2 with pull my finger, occasionally lucky blast)

SU: 1 (10 wds, plus squeels out of melee)

CC: 2 (He is a summoning factory, completely crew reliant)

MO: 1 (5/8 + squeel, but you most likely wont move him)

Overall Score: 12/20 divide by 2: 6.0/10

I think the score is right, however he is the roger maris of malifaux, the 6 needs to be 6*. You have to really know what your doing and exploit his crews limited strengths to win. If your playing a scenario (and you always should be), you will never, ever, win slaughter, thankfully you pick scenario before building the crew.

[Werecat]

I hope the community picks som'er for me, and in honor of that, because I dont think i've seen him ranked, i'll do him.

Honestly, I say go balls out and play Ramos, just to take his very worst option against him.

[Sandwich]

I vote Ramos as well.

Let him go with Pandora.

And then have a ticklefight.

Because that is as equally entertaining as arguing on the internet.

[AkumaKaze]

Wow.....if this is what I get when I post an idea I'm quite sure if I write a novel I will single-handedly start World War 4 (it would be SO AWESOME it would totally bypass 3 by eating it with reckless abandon)! Apparently discussing Tiers is about as serious as sucker-punching Jesus during Sunday School! :flaminghe

All kidding aside and ignoring the rants, you guys have been doing a phenomenal job with making your own Tier Rankings on characters and I commend you all for putting forth such an effort. I am currently compiling all of the scores you have posted and I am still working hard on my end to flesh out that which hasn't been done. I will have ALL of the Masters and Henchmen done by next week. Once I post them I look forward to hearing everyone's opinions and/or corrections on them. Keep up the good work! :dancing:

Raintar,

I have no intention of ignoring any critiques that you have. If you have ANY ideas to bring to the table by all means do so. Everyone, please keep this diplomatic and constructive. If you have ANY ideas to bring to the table by all means do so. This is a community of Strategy Gamers that are looking at growing Malifaux in the aspect of fun, competitive spirit.

[Dolomyte]

Ramos Eh,

OF: 0

DE: 0

RA: 0

MA: 1 (he does have a damage spell, and it ignores armor? might as well be 0)

ME: 0

UT: 2 (He can summon stuff, and has buffs, and can fix stuff. counterspell too)

DO: 0

SU: 1 (he does have armor 2)

CC: 2 (He is a summoning factory, completely crew reliant, brings little else to the table though)

MO: 0 (3/5 ugh)

6/20 overall 3/10.

The tim couch of malifaux, he has amazing backstory and then when he hits the field he chokes.

[Zethal]

Huh..? I would revise your scoring a bit:

Pandora

Of: 0 (She doesn't attack unless through spells which aren't to be counted here)

Um yes it is. Offense as defined by OP is relating to how well the model hits enemies. As Pandora attacks with Wp for incity pacify with a of 7 she hits rather easily.

Df: 0 (The lowest Df value amongst masters)

And again this is about them being hit, this would relate to Wp, Df and recently Ca. While her Df is low she essentially has all three of those stats at 7 due to Fears. Which the opponent needs to flip against to hit the opponent. Again this is how the OP defines it.

Rg: 0 (No ranged attack)

And again the OP does not ask for a attacks. It asks for "How well does the model do attacking at range?". Which for Pandora is quite well.

[alemon]

Um yes it is. Offense as defined by OP is relating to how well the model hits enemies. As Pandora attacks with Wp for incity pacify with a of 7 she hits rather easily.

And again this is about them being hit, this would relate to Wp, Df and recently Ca. While her Df is low she essentially has all three of those stats at 7 due to Fears. Which the opponent needs to flip against to hit the opponent. Again this is how the OP defines it.

And again the OP does not ask for a attacks. It asks for "How well does the model do attacking at range?". Which for Pandora is quite well.

Spells and buffs don't count. Not sure I count incite or pacify as an attack. I don't really know where passive abilities fall under this, but I do agree with you on the defense.

[Wodschow]

Um yes it is. Offense as defined by OP is relating to how well the model hits enemies. As Pandora attacks with Wp for incity pacify with a of 7 she hits rather easily.

And again this is about them being hit, this would relate to Wp, Df and recently Ca. While her Df is low she essentially has all three of those stats at 7 due to Fears. Which the opponent needs to flip against to hit the opponent. Again this is how the OP defines it.

And again the OP does not ask for a attacks. It asks for "How well does the model do attacking at range?". Which for Pandora is quite well.

It makes little sense to discuss these things as I suppose they're subjective opinions.

On OF: The only way to HIT something in Malifaux terms is by making a STRIKE. Pandora doesn't make those.

If you're counting her spells and Incite/Pacify here then you shouldn't count them at the other categories I think.

On DF: Her Wp, Ca and Df stats are definetly sub-par when compared to other masters, yes her Wp is high, but so is most other masters' it doesn't raise her above average, she's still far below.

Expose Fears is AWESOME for protecting her. But I think this is the reason there's both a DF and a SU category.

I give her SU 2 without a doubt thanks to her Expose Fears, but her DF is just as bad as it gets.

On her RG: again.. Incite/Pacify are good, and defined as attacks, I do however feel they have a much more spell-like nature. They're essentially de-buffs and movement which aren't to be counted here.

This is how I justify my changes. But again there's obviously no right answer to a project like this. Those are just my opinions.

On how to rate her..

With this somewhat lacking system.. (Sorry Akuma xD)

lol..

[AkumaKaze]

Pandora is definitely one of the harder Masters to do because her "Attacks" and "Defenses" are not as cut and dry. Remember, Triggers and Abilities count as to how these models operate for each of the statistics. Here is what I got:

Pandora

OF: 1

DE: 1

RA: 2

MA: 2

ME: 0 (Don't even bother!)

UT: 2

DO: 1

SU: 2

CC: 2

MO: 0

Total: 13/20 /2= 6.5/10

Her OF I rated at 1 due to High WP stat and the offensive effects that it has (Box Opens, Emotional Trauma) that would normally be rated at a 2 but her Withering Glare (which will pop up any time she gets into Melee) is horrible. Averaged it to a 1 (middle ground). Her DE I rated at 1 due to her Horrible Df Score (2? Are you fricking kidding me?!) but any time someone Targets her they have to get into a WP-WP duel (something she can win) which is good. Averaged it to a 1 (Middle Ground)

You have to look at ALL of the ways a character can operate under one of the categories. If they are really good at one thing and really awful at another, it will most likely come out to Average (+1). I know this sounds a bit too simple and a bit lacking right now and for the most part Wodschow you are right, however, these numbers will help when building the tactica with all of the models later when we break each score down into detail.

Yes, Pandora is the queen of WP duels but hits like a pillow in physical combat. As much as we want to look at only what makes a model great we cannot ignore their weaknesses either. It will make players more aware of what each model CAN and CANNOT do.

[Klitte]

Well, let me try my own feeble hand at this, rating the two masters I currently own and play:

Lilith, Mother of Monsters

Offense: 2 (great cb, no help from triggers though, but that is outweighed by the option of debuffing everything's defense giving her an effective melee cb of 9, while aiding the attacks of those around her as well)

Defense: 1 (Top range Df paired with a trigger that makes meleeing her an exercise in futility. A bit vulnerable to ranged however, unless carefully positioned)

Range: 0 (lolwut?)

Magic: 0 (lowish ca paired with lowish cc on all her spells except her best, which also requires an outside suit. Almost good enough for a 1 here)

Melee: 2 (I don't think I need to qualify this)

Utility: 1 (Some good trickery spells, as well as some help for her children in the form of brood mother and/or drain blood. Good but nothing fantastic)

Damage Output: 1 (Her melee damage is nice and high, of course, but with no immediate ways of increasing it from triggers or spells, and limited application of her damage output, through only being able to apply it in melee, she falls squarely into "really good, but limited")

Survivability: 0 (a nice handful of wounds but nothing else. She's a shock trooper, and if she gets stuck "taking it" she'll need a stack of SS's to keep alive)

Crew Cohesion: 2 (Insanely dangerous melee monsters she can get into melee under cover, or just teleport right in, possibly with the added benefit of immediate activation. Small cheap models that she can turn into ravening monsters easily. A lilith/nephilim crew is a roiling tempest of synergies)

Mobility: 2 (high wk/cg, Master of Malifaux (even post-errata) and the ability to teleport about she is without a doubt one of, if not THE, master who brings the most mobility to the table, not only for herself, but her crew as well)

5,5/10

hmmm.... apparently I rate her signifigantly lower than most

Perdita Ortega, Neverborn Huntress

Offense: 2 (Great cb values along with various tricks to get the bead on opponents. I'm counting Hero's Gamble here as well as it can turn a desperate "must get a lucky flip" gamble into a more or less sure thing)

Defense: 2 (Top tier Df along with ways to make attacking her less attractive)

Range: 2 (One of the best shooters in the game)

Magic: 1 (High Ca, only handicapped by needing masks for 2 of her spells)

Melee: 1 (eh, she'll gun you down just as surely in melee as anywhere else, but nothing spectacular here)

Utility: 1 (between messing around with your own control hand, messing around with the enemy's deck and applying some solid board control due to things like quick draw, she's a solid nuisance even when she isn't killing the crud out of anything that moves)

Damage Output: 1 (really good, but not insane)

Survivability: 1 (she can dish it out, and she's hard to put a hand on, but once you do get to her, she can't really take it. A tentative +1 for her evasive)

Crew Cohesion: 2 (everyone knows the silly obey shenanigans by now. Apart from that her abilities suppert la familia nicely making all of them deadlier)

Mobility: 1 (Nothing spectacular, but still one of the highest wk/cg out there)

7/10

Again... a little lower than most rate her, yes?

[Svenn]

Ramos Eh,

OF: 0

DE: 0

RA: 0

MA: 1 (he does have a damage spell, and it ignores armor? might as well be 0)

ME: 0

UT: 2 (He can summon stuff, and has buffs, and can fix stuff. counterspell too)

DO: 0

SU: 1 (he does have armor 2)

CC: 2 (He is a summoning factory, completely crew reliant, brings little else to the table though)

MO: 0 (3/5 ugh)

6/20 overall 3/10.

The tim couch of malifaux, he has amazing backstory and then when he hits the field he chokes.

Are you grading JUST Ramos himself or his crew? I got my ass kicked by Ramos when I played him... but it was only the second or third game for both of us. He seems to have a lot of nice abilities though.

[Werecat]

Are you grading JUST Ramos himself or his crew? I got my ass kicked by Ramos when I played him... but it was only the second or third game for both of us. He seems to have a lot of nice abilities though.

In my experience, Ramos' crew are the ones to carry the weight. Ramos is... sort of boring as a master. But with superstars like the steamborg and Joss, Ramos just tends to sit back, summoning spiders and electrical creations, and throw out the occasional Electrical Fire. Nothing wrong with that, IMO. I just like my masters to take a more leading role in the game.