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Tactica: Seamus


Sandwich

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You put a lot of time and effort into this. I have only made it a little over halfway through reading it, but I'll definitely come back to finish it.

I would caution you with your Treasure Hunt tactic though. Any action other than a Walk will cause a model to drop the Treasure Counter, so you couldn't Lure them with it.

Other that that, good job and I look forward to reading through the rest!

Edited by chaosobscuros
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Any thoughts on Molly?

Currently, no.

From the looks of it, she'll be a really good model to use if I drop Bete.

But some things look great on paper and play really bad.

If you happen to proxy her and like her, please, let me know how she works.

I'll be waiting for the official model to come out and whatnot before I can definitively say whether she will be large role in my Crew or not.

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First off: Very nice summary, I can see that we don't agree on everything, but you have alot of valid points :) definetly worth the read for new and experienced players alike!

I caught a few errors which I thought I might aswell list here to improve your already impressive tactica:

- Necrotic Ministrations is living and undead only (so not really anything).

- I'm fairly certain that Live for Pain is Rst: Df.

- You can Womanize any of the Belles and still chain activate them all as long as all the Rotten ones are within 6" of Sybelle. Ie. you can have Sybelle 11" away from Seamus, Rotten Belle A 5.5" away and Rotten Belle B 16" away and still activate them all simultaneously when casting Womanize on a Belle.

- Sybelle's Fester can only be used with her Iron Fan, so cannot use the built in crows on the Riding Crop.

- Gunslinger costs 6SS when taken by Seamus (out of faction cost).

- Killjoy likewise costs 12SS.

- If you cast Lure on a Belle with the treasure counter she'll drop it.

Also you sound a bit more scared of Douglas McMourning than you should be. He's the master with the lowest Wp! Use that to your advantage, Seamus' Ca isn't bad at all. Undead Psychosis and he's unable to be near your crew aswell as his own.

I thought of a few more things while reading, but can't recall them right now.. :(

Well well!

Again very nice work!

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Necrotic Ministrations does only take effect if a living or undead unit dies in 6" of Seamus' presence, which, while that does not encompass every single model in the game, does encompass roughly 80% of everything.

You're correct about Live For Pain, apologies, its fixed.

You're correct about Fester, thank you. I've been up for quite a while and that part eluded my vision.

You're correct about those two, which really only furthers my point that there's better things you can get.

As for Sybelle, I know. I don't think I made it seem like she must be activated first, did I?

And McMourning? Its not so much fear of him, but the desire to get high point kills. His Flesh Constructs cost 7 points and Sebastian costs him 6. He gives you 10 points and is much more of a hassle to kill than his units.

With a basic boxset vs. boxset, there's no doubt in my mind Seamus could kill McMourning, but it would take a long time, all the while expending Control cards and Soulstones to minimize the damage he deals while still trying to finish Slaughter and my other two schemes.

It'd be best to simply avoid him as a whole and I would, without a shadow of a doubt, hit him with an Undead Psychosis every single turn, but I wouldn't go out of my way to kill him, no.

Where precisely does it say that a Model being pushed forces it to drop the Counter? Because if its true, then I've never noticed it and will certainly start using it against people with the Treasure Hunt Strategy.

I should've probably waited to post this until later today after I consciously looked it over, but alas, I did not.

Please though, proof read it for me and I'll be glad to fix whatever you find.

And if you've any fancy ideas, tell me so that we can create an expansive list for everyone to use. : ]

Edited by Sandwich
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Reference on dropping the Treasure counter:

Book2 - Page 60 - Treasure Hunt, 2nd paragraph:

A model drops the Treasyre Counter in base contact with itself if it changes position on the table by any effect other than the Walk Action or before being removed from play.

So yes. It's very viable to use Lure on enemies carrying the counter. :)

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I couldn't digest all of this in one sitting, but one thing I never noticed you mention was this: Seamus is very powerful in melee, but shouldn't be thrown at an enemy force! I've never played Seamus, but I've played against him... oh, 4 times i can think of right now. I think my record against him is 2 wins, 1 loss, and a draw. Both the wins involved killing Seamus on the second or third turn.

You do caution against using the army in general for toe-to-toe fighting, but I tink its wise to point out Seamus in particular. He seems like an unkillable god on paper, but a hard-hitting crew (and let's face it, generally only hard-hitting crews can threaten ressers anyway) will tear him up given the chance.

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I couldn't digest all of this in one sitting, but one thing I never noticed you mention was this: Seamus is very powerful in melee, but shouldn't be thrown at an enemy force! I've never played Seamus, but I've played against him... oh, 4 times i can think of right now. I think my record against him is 2 wins, 1 loss, and a draw. Both the wins involved killing Seamus on the second or third turn.

You do caution against using the army in general for toe-to-toe fighting, but I tink its wise to point out Seamus in particular. He seems like an unkillable god on paper, but a hard-hitting crew (and let's face it, generally only hard-hitting crews can threaten ressers anyway) will tear him up given the chance.

SLAUGHTER - 25 POINT SS SCRAP

Seamus - 2 Soul Stone Cache

Copy Cat Killer - 2 Soul Stone Cost

Bete Noire - 9 Soul Stone Cost

The Hanged - 8 Soul Stone Cost

Rotten Belle - 4 Soul Stone Cost

--- Total Cost - 23 Soul Stone

This leaves you with a 4 Soul Stone Pool

IF THIS IS YOUR STRATEGY

-------

The strategy you use here really, really depends on who you're up against and what units they're using.

I will go through this based on Faction, though take this loosely, as the members of each faction vary greatly. Take note that Seamus is deadly and durable, but not immortal. Throwing him against a crew of heavy hitters will get him killed quickly, use him for direct support, not frontline assault.

Read the last sentence. ;D

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If you PM a marshal I'm sure this will get stickied. I doubt this will just fade away. Most people will be a little over whelmed by the shear size of the tactica and have nothing fancy to say or add when you have been so very thorough. Some might not agree with all your tactics, but the way you present your information makes it hard for anyone to refute what you have said or add anything that hasn't already been said.

Well done. I just hope as more players get time to fully read through this you will get more responses from the old guard.

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I like this article especially the way you approach strategies though i do have to disagree with your statement on the Neverborn being Seamus's biggest challenge or at least halfway disagree

IMHO book 1 Neverborn can be divided into two categories

1. the immune to influence kind: basically think teddy bad-juju and the hooded rider

2. Seamus's bestest friends: (the majority of remaining models) combo low willpower (4-6) with high speed and the fact that these are living u can easily lure a Nephilim or candy/kade across the board turn one kill it and have fun with the corpse counters they produce or on the flip side you can force moral duels and watch as neverborn dart of the board

and as for rising powers: with collodi and dolls the neverborn are a whole new animal but i don't have anywhere near the practice against them it will take to figure that out

again these are just my 2 cents

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I like this article especially the way you approach strategies though i do have to disagree with your statement on the Neverborn being Seamus's biggest challenge or at least halfway disagree

IMHO book 1 Neverborn can be divided into two categories

1. the immune to influence kind: basically think teddy bad-juju and the hooded rider

2. Seamus's bestest friends: (the majority of remaining models) combo low willpower (4-6) with high speed and the fact that these are living u can easily lure a Nephilim or candy/kade across the board turn one kill it and have fun with the corpse counters they produce or on the flip side you can force moral duels and watch as neverborn dart of the board

and as for rising powers: with collodi and dolls the neverborn are a whole new animal but i don't have anywhere near the practice against them it will take to figure that out

again these are just my 2 cents

I say that the Neverborn are the biggest threat partly because of their high WP, but also because people tend to get cocky when they see a crew that has low WP, and that is one thing you do NOT want to do against a master like Lilith, as she will tear Seamus apart if you get him close enough to her to pop off (1)The Face of Death.

There's no doubt all factions and masters are handled with relative ease as a player generates more and more skill with Seamus.

The problem is, Seamus' crew is a technical crew, and learning to use him to his fullest takes time, effort, and patience, whereas crews like Lilith are straightfoward and most people who pick her up can master her after their first game, and crews like Pandora don't force Morale duels, they force WP duels, and with a WP of 5 for your Belles, that's not too good, though Seamus' 7 WP isn't half bad.

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So yeah, I just did about 3 and a half hours of work on the tacticta, and due to a Login error, none of it went through.

And now its midnight, and I have things to do in the morning.

Apologies.

Ouch.:wtf::imsorry:

I learned in school I would always write up my big posts in Word then C/P it to a board. This might be wise to do with these juicy posts.

And your post is so tame for the situation. I know you must be quite pissed and bummed. Good composure.

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-----------------------------

Seamus - 2 Soul Stone Cache

Copy Cat Killer 2 - 2 Soul Stone Cost

Bete Noire - 9 Soul Stone Cost

Convict Gunslinger - 5 Soul Stone Cost

Rotten Belle - 4 Soul Stone Cost

Rotten Belle - 4 Soul Stone Cost

---Total = 24

Leaving you with a 3 Soul Stone Pool

Wouldn't the Gunslinger cost 6 SS or am I missing a rule?

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