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Tactica: Lucius


gunpowder saint

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I have actually used the reactivate every time i've played with Lucius as a master (the only way I use him). It is so great to be able to put models with 1 wd left to use. I was giving a Zoraida player fits because he would conduit models to give them poison and I would make them attack on Lucius' turn and then Sac them before they activated and died from poison.

Ryle: At first I didn't think I would like Ryle in my lists. But after using him for the last couple of times, he is pretty good. It is nice to have the immunity to WP duels and he scares the crap out of the opponent when they read his gun rules.

As far as treasure hunt goes, that strategy is almost unfair for Lucius crews.

Lawyers: I haven't gotten the chance to use his morale duel spell yet. However, Rasputina hates the spell that make models not friendly as she can't ice mirror through them anymore. And the hard to wound 2 one is great also.

Sorry I didn't use the exact names of the spells/abilities, but I am at work and don't have my Malifaux stuff with me.

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Thx a lot for the report!! Learned some nice things :-)

Does Ryle really get the + melee Flip from the linked Drill Sergeant??

"Can´t Connect" says that he is never considered a friendly model for Talents and Spells and the "Extra Training" works on a friendly non-master model!! So, in my opinion, it doesn`t work with Ryle?!?!?

But it doesn't target and Ryle can't be friendly when targetted. The same with Reinforcements, you can use reinforcements on him as it doesn't say target.

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But it doesn't target and Ryle can't be friendly when targetted. The same with Reinforcements, you can use reinforcements on him as it doesn't say target.

No, you`re wrong!

"...never a friendly model....for purpose of selecting a target for Talents or Spells"

=> He is never a friendly model for all Spells and talents!!

But Reinforcements says:

=> " Place a friendly model"

Its pretty explicit and what you are trying is kind of "rulef..king" as we call it in germany :-)

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The Wording of Ryles rules does seem to support the rules lawyering.

If it just said he was not a friendly model, then they certainly don't work.

But he is not a friendly model when selecting a target, well if the spell or ability isn't targeting a friendly model then it doesn't seem to come into play.

I would be dubious in friendly play, and discuss beforehand, and ask the T.O. at at tournement, but rules as written do seem to support it.

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here is the ruling from Sketch

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showpost.php?p=206562&postcount=16

it doesn't target.

so, no rules lawyering here. I thought it worked the other way too and happily played it that way until this ruling.

And a little more tact in responses would be appreciated, Sun Tzu. I didn't scream that you were wrong, nor was I rulesf*cking, as you so eloquently put it.

Edited by JayBarlekamp
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Hmm, still not convincing...but if Sketch says so, it has to be this way :-/

By the way: "rulesf*cking" is nothing bad or an insult towards you,...its just the way some people think/play and others, like me, have an other way of thinking....When i read "can´t connect" for example, its pretty clear to me that Ryle is a loner and following from this isn`t able to connect in any way... Just because the word "target" isn`t used in the "Reinforcement" -Text, doesn`t make sense for me to cast this spell on Ryle. Targeting a Model or cast a spell on a model is the same in my eyes!

Have you seen the :-) at the end of my response?? With that i wanted to express that my response is no attack towards you!!

;-)

(I think i will use "rules lawyering" the next time....thats sound much nicer)

Edited by Sun Tzu
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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Just wanted to point out that in my copy of Rising Powers (presumably the reprint) the Guild Hounds are now Guardsmen, and can therefore be taken with Lucius as a Master.

I've only just started playing, but this seems like a huge bonus since they are both the cheapest and the fastest models he can recruit... Looking forward to them being released...

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Lucius using his reenforcement spell with Ryle is a great tactic, it is even more effective when you place Ryle closer to Lucius (say about 3 inches) then activate Ryle and then use his ability that causes him to push away from the closest living model (should be Lucius if you plan it right) , this gives you a free move with Ryle and then you still have his extra combat and the two standard activation points. So you can move Ryle from your reserve, place him closest to you model and wait until next activation. (Your enemy will key on Ryle but it is almost impossible to take him down in one turn) Next activation you get to bring the pain. You make your four inch push then: 1) you can fire your gun 3 times 2) fire once and then charge(my favorite) or 3) fire twice and move once ....etc. There are many different combos that make it a lethal punch. Just make sure you advise you opponent with what activation point you are using to avoid any confusion.

You can also before Lucius activation ends sacrifice a model to reactivate and then on the reactivation move the guardian near Lucius for provide extra support. The Lucius reinforcement tactic is also deadly if you are are close combat and bring the peacemaker or the Lawyer into the mix. Try them all and see what you like best.... there is nothing better than seeing you opponent get worried when you bring a peacemaker from your rear lines to the front lines in one move !:blowup:

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Just wanted to point out that in my copy of Rising Powers (presumably the reprint) the Guild Hounds are now Guardsmen, and can therefore be taken with Lucius as a Master.

I've only just started playing, but this seems like a huge bonus since they are both the cheapest and the fastest models he can recruit... Looking forward to them being released...

Seriously? That is kick ass. I've been hoping they'd find a way to get the hounds into the list. I don't know how effective they'll be, but I'm going to proxy them to find out.

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Seriously? That is kick ass. I've been hoping they'd find a way to get the hounds into the list. I don't know how effective they'll be, but I'm going to proxy them to find out.

Yes - obviously I can't speak to the final card (or the first printing of the book), but they do have Guardsman in my copy...

Although I'd prefer to take several of them for 'Pack Mentality', 'Trained in Pairs' and 'On the Trail', they are cheap (even more so when 'Guild Kennels' is taken into account), fast (faster than any other model in Lucius's list to begin with and capable of being Commanded by Lucius for a staggering speed - a possible 21" plus base sizes from the deployment zone before it even activates...) and provides a reasonable melee ability (for the cost).

Vs enemies who use Corpse, Scrap, Blood, Body Parts or Eye tokens, it just gets better...

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  • 1 month later...

I am going to a tourny in June and I want to try out Lucius again. I love his fluff and his theme but just dont think he works that well on the table top. He just seems to be missing something.

The Tourny is 35pts and you get to choose one master and then a 55ss pool.

For my normal list I am thinking :

Lucius cache 3ss

Drill Sarge 3ss

Guild Guard-4ss

Guild Guard-4ss

Guild Guard-4ss

Guild Hound-3ss

Guild Hound-3ss

Guild Hound-3ss

Guild Austringer- 5ss

Ryle Hoffman- 8ss

He does not have much choice so not sure what to add to my 20ss sideboard. I can see this crew having some very bad match ups, but its also pretty fast so some things like destroy evidence should be pretty easy I hope.

I did think of using him as a henchmen but at 35pts he does not work as a henchmen. 10ss is to much for him, then you have to add in some guardsmen which leaves you only with about 4 models before your out of SS.

So what would you take to a 35pt tourny if you where using lucius ?

Edit: Been doing some more thinking on the subject. For my 55 soul stones I was thinking:

Lady Justice- Cache 4

Lucius- 10ss

Drill Sarge- 3ss

3x Guild Guard- 12ss

3x Guild Hounds-9ss

Austringer- 5ss

Ryle- 8ss

Guild Captain- 7ss

This gives me a few options, I can either go Lady J as master with Lucius as henchmen if I need a heavy hitter. If I need alot of speed I can go with just lucius using the list above, lucius plus guild hounds should be able to get to any objectives pretty fast.

Edited by Talos
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Guard Captain can be great. Good melee damage, and a good menace. Very dangerous combat threat when linked to a Drill sergent and being issued commands.

I would be tempted to take a lawyer in the sideboard, as you can, and a second Austringer.

Unfortuantly thats 19 points, so you'd be at 56 points in the sideboard.

With three dogs, I'd sometime be tempted to take the fourth, since it then only costs 2 ss.

I also strongly recomend trying to get a cache of 4 for lucius.

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  • 2 weeks later...

It seems between all of the guild hounds companion(guildhound), companion (master), and the Guard captains' (0) captain ability and the Austringers deliver orders that the Ortegas aren't the only guild crew around with a nasty alpha strike anymore. I'll be running two captains, but I think I'll mod one of them to be holding a turkey leg, for the sake of distinction.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I have been meaning to post up my results of the tourament I went to.

Here is a run down of the 3 games. These games were a few weeks ago so so I just wrote down all the bits I could remember.

Here is the 55ss list I took although I actually used the same 35ss list in all games.

Lucius

Guild Captain

3xGuild Guard

3x Guild Hound

2x Guild Austringer

Drill Sarge

Gov proxy

Ryle

35ss list

Lucius

Drill Sarge

2x Guild Guard

3x Guild Hound

2x Austringer

Ryle

My first game was shared Claim Jump against Hoffman. I had never faced Hoffman before and was looking forward to it. It was a good game which could have gone either way. I had the mistake of ignoring the peacekeeper as it did nothing the first few turns only for it to smash through my lines in the last few killing 2 guild guards and a austringer. Ryle was killed before he could do anything by another Ryle. I used Lucius reinforcements to move him forward but did not count for Hoffman machine puppeting his ryle. The Guardian was a pain keeping Hoffman alive, I just could not ping it to death. Hoffman pulse that does 3 dg was brutal and killed my 3 hounds and Lucius. I was able to get my breakthrough scheme but failed hold out. In the end it was 2-8.

Second Game was shared Contain power against Ramos. This was a crazy game. I took the same list I did in the first game. I took Steal Relic and assassinate. Ramos took Holdout and can’t remember the other one. My first turn I moved everything forward while Ramos made spiders and his forces moved up. My Austringer was able to kill his gunsmith before it could do anything which was great. My hounds moved up to charge Ramos next turn and steal the relic. Ryle shot and killed Joss and everything else moved up. His duet did some damage to lucius and then was one hit by a guardsmen thanks to a red joker. The dogs charged ramos but all 3 failed to steal the relic. Ryle moved to charge next turn. Next turn Ramos spider swarm blow up killing Lucius netting him some VPs. My dogs once again failed to steal the relic or do any damage to Ramos. Ryle killed the totem and then failed to do any damage to Ramos. Ramos then held out next turn then the game was called. It was 0-4 in the end. I only lost Lucius but I just could not kill or steal the damage relic from Ramos. 3 turns and around 8 WP duels and Ramos does not lose a single one. Looking back I relize I killed Ramos’s Totem so should have gotten 1 extra VP but it would have made no difference to the game or tournament result. I really wish we had been able to play more than 3 turns as I felt I could easily have killed Ramos,stolen the relic and gotten assassination in the those next few turns. Which would have given me over the 8vp limit.

Third Game was reconnoitre against Sonnia Cridd. I took the same list once again and for schemes Extermination on the witchlings and Kill Protégé which was Nino. Sonnia had treasure hunt and took Stake a claim and grudge on Ryle. First turn everything moved up. I used reinforcement on an austringer to move it up the field it then took a witchling down to 1 wound. Sonnia killed it bring it back as a new witchling but he did damage Nino in the blast. Second turn Nino shot my hounds killing one and bringing one to 1 wound. My hounds then charged one of his austringers. The Guild Guard killed a Witchling and I brought Ryle up the field with reinforcements. Sonnia turned her totem in to a witchling and did a blast on Ryle doing 3 wounds. Turn three, hounds kill a austringer and one moves to charge the next austringer while one attacks a witchling. My two austringers kill Nino getting my some VPs. Ryle kills another witchling and does some damage to Sonnia. Sonnia and his austringer killed Ryle but as it was not a melee attack got no VPs for the scheme. Turn 4 one of my hounds kills the witchling and dies in the process getting my VPs for extermination. The other hound charges the austringer killing him. My Austringers killed Sonnia and my guardsmen and lucius had already moved to the table quaters . I won 8-0.

My models of the day had to be the Guild Hounds.Every game I felted they served a purpose. In my third game they were amazing at killing Austringers.

I had wanted to try the Captain but think Ryle is just better for 1 ss extra. Will need to try out the Drill Sarge a bit more, I tried linking him to Ryle for the push. But its hard to get the plus flip for melee damage as he only links when you walk or at the end of a activation, so you lose it if you charge Ryle.

Two Austringers are awesome. I liked bringing one up to the mid field with reinforcement it gave them a great threat range and allowed me to hit certain models turn 1.

The Guild Guard did not really do much but that was fine, they were they to guard lucius and go do objective stuff. I did use Raise Alarm a few times just to move my backfield Austringer an extra 3 which was useful.

I really enjoyed all three of my games and had a great day. I had never played against Ramos or Hoffman before so that was fun, although some of there powers caught me by surprise. Going up against Sonnia I had much more confidence as I own her and know what all the guild models do, which makes it alot easier. Having 4 austringers on the table was pretty nuts.

I had only used Lucius twice before this tournament so felt I did pretty well. Will be coming back to this thread often to post up my findings on Lucius as I use him in my club's league.

I am thinking of removing the Drill Sarge and adding another Guild Hound.

Oh yea Fate must have been smiling on me all day as I never once had to cheat or use a SS to get off reinforcements or issue command.

Edited by Talos
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I used Lucius for the first time yesterday against Lillith and i was pretty amazed by the results! I ran:

Lucius w/ Drill Sarge w/ 4 stones

Guild Guard x3

Austringer

Guild Guard Captain

Ryle

Lillith w/ bunch of stones

Ronin

Litlu

Leelu x2

Hooded Rider?

Shared Turf War, I took Grudge on the Ronin and Breakthrough. He took Assassinate on Lucius and Stake a Claim.

The main highlights of the game was using a combination of Lucius/Drill Sarge/Captain/Austringer/Guild Guard to activate one after the other to eliminate models. Also using reinforcements to teleport the Captain and other guards halfway up the board.

final tally was he was in my deployment 2vp + Stake a Claim 2vp =4vp to my Breakthrough 2vp + Turf War full amount of pts 4vp= 6vp. I managed to kill the Ronin but I believe I may have shot her to death otherwise I would of had 8vp?

He had left:

Lillith w/ all stones

Hooded Rider

I had:

Lucius w/ 3 stones (used one against Litlu's alluring? ability)

Captain w/ 1 wound

Austringer

Guild Guard

Though not the most competitive looking list for my Lillith opponent he is the kind of guy that finds what he likes and will eventually get the hang of playing it. While it was my first time using Lucius i was awe struck by his ability to literally make EVERYONE do his dirty work. You want mobility you got it! you want your guys to remove any threats near him? no problem!

I do have two rules questions though:

1) I activated Lucius/Drill Sarge/Captain via companion, lets say i activate Captain second in the string of Companion ability. What happens if I used the Captains (0) ability to activate a guardsmen within 6? Does the person in the third companion string activate OR does the guardsmen activate THEN the companion goes last?

2) This question may seem foolish but does Lucius himself count as elite division? So that my drill sarge (with the right cards) can cast "issue command" on lucius?

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I do have two rules questions though:

1) I activated Lucius/Drill Sarge/Captain via companion, lets say i activate Captain second in the string of Companion ability. What happens if I used the Captains (0) ability to activate a guardsmen within 6? Does the person in the third companion string activate OR does the guardsmen activate THEN the companion goes last?

2) This question may seem foolish but does Lucius himself count as elite division? So that my drill sarge (with the right cards) can cast "issue command" on lucius?

1) The Guardsman would go next after the Captain then the other companioned model.

2) I believe so. Which also means he can cast Issue command on himself to get an extra walk or strike. Good adding an extra 5 to reinforcements.

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Thanks Talos, yeah i figured as much with the first rules question, that's how we played it out.

Good point, since casting expert would give him that extra walk/strike. I was using it to ferry Lucius up with the drill sarge making him walk into the best position to cover my models. So when Lucius activated he could go on a casting spree.

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I played my first game with Lucius and have to say I was extremely impressed. Ran two guard captains, a drill sergeant, 3 guards and a lawyer at 40ss (realized later that Lucius soulstone pool could not exceed 4, so I was running at 8) against A Lylth list (who normally gives me fits). I used reinforcements and issue command to get the captains up front and when the enemy closed with me I would activate one captain, fire off a couple menaces, then use that captain to activate the other on who would either menace or start shooting, then use that captain to activate the drill sergeant who would drop firiing range then companion in to Lucius who could start issuing commands to keep shooting stuff (with a possible reactivate). It's an alpha strike that also locks your opponents where they are for as many rounds as you can keep the initiative (which is the only thing you need soulstones for, so four is pretty acceptable). Can't wait for Guild hounds so Lucius has fodder for reactivating or to go handle objectives while the enemy's locked down.

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Lucius runs his crew like an immaculately oiled machine, every time I use him I am surprised how well he does. Only having 4 stones is never a concern, in fact I believe in the 3-4 games that i've used Lucius i have never spent more than a stone or two. That was mainly for re-flips on initiative!

How did you find the lawyer? I LOVE the model/concept, but i'm still not quite sure how i would like to run the model.

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