Chev Chelios Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 So have you guys had success with the agressive tactic of two Shikome on turn one then Ikiryo on turn two? Trying to flood the game early with heavy hitters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Why? I just don't see why you'd want to try to make this a normal method of play, other than in very specific circumstances dictated by strats and schemes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chev Chelios Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 True. The times I have used her I felt it was difficult to be that aggressive with her and was wondering if it was possible. I understand that that schemes and strategies will tend to dictate a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 You certainly can play her that way, but I look at Kirai more as a scalpel. She is very effective at bringing her power to a point, just about any point she wants, but she is not very often effective at bringing a sledgehammer of force down on an entire side of the crew. The Dreamer is much more effective in that role. With Kirai, I find you need to identify your targets early in the game and then destroy them one after another. It is almost impossible to hide from Kirai, and her crew, in my experience, tends to do better when you focus your power on one model after another. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chev Chelios Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 Cool. Thanks for the advice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decado Posted December 3, 2011 Report Share Posted December 3, 2011 May i ask for the list you use for different strategies/schemes at 30 SS? What schemes are optimal for Kirai and why? What are the best models for different strategies in your experience? I am a brand new kirai (and Malifaux) player and just dropped to the deep water as there is an ongoing league. A bit offtopic: today i participated in the Hungarian Games Day. It was a great event and Malifaux is very popular at my country. There are about 50 people who currently registered to the league Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulG Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 It works only if you get all the cards you need in your hand (a Mask and two 9+ Crows) and only if murdering one of your opponent's models will absolutely cripple them. Sadly, most such models are very difficult to kill, even with 2 Shikome (they will -NOT- kill a master with a full-ish hand and 5+ soulstones, trust me). If it doesn't work the first turn, you probably won't get a second and you're probably going to be down two Shikome. They'll be out of Kirai's range, so no Seishin, and you'll be down FOUR spirits, minimum. May i ask for the list you use for different strategies/schemes at 30 SS? What schemes are optimal for Kirai and why? What are the best models for different strategies in your experience? I am a brand new kirai (and Malifaux) player and just dropped to the deep water as there is an ongoing league. A bit offtopic: today i participated in the Hungarian Games Day. It was a great event and Malifaux is very popular at my country. There are about 50 people who currently registered to the league Keep in mind, with any list you're going to want to build part of your list to complete your strategies, part of your list to prevent your opponent's strategies, and part of your list to add board control (punch). With Ressurectionists, you select what minions can do those things and then select your master to synergize/pull it all together. Some exceptions apply. Note that with Kirai, you're spending at least 8, possibly 12ss just to set her schtick up. That is worth it -entirely- because Kirai can switch between all three roles via summoning. So, rather than give you full lists for each strategy, I'll give you minions that are conductive to completing it. Line in the Sand: Your objective runners must have the ability to move at least 6" and still take an interact action. This is so you can move from counter to counter most easily. Take two or three Night Terrors, but anything with a 6" movement works. Claim Jump: You need lots of significant models, or the ability to pick off the enemy's models. This means you can either go Gaki swarm or similar, or go the high punch rout of VS/Dead Rider/Etc and hope to kill enough of your opponent's models to make summoning Onryo on top of the marker viable. Contain Power: Personally, I'm a big fan of the VS list here. -THIS- is where you're going to want to summon 2 Shikome. Bringing a Shikome to start can also work. I've heard of Jack Daw / The Hanged / Insidious Madness working well in this strat as well. Deliver Message: Kirai can almost compelte this solo... Summon a Shikome. Win. Build the rest of your list to mess with the opponent. Destroy the Evidence: This is another one Kirai does well with, thanks to her ability to summon Ikiryo/Onryo/Whatever on top of the markers. Night Terrors are a good addition, if you really need help beyond that. Distract: Once we get Jakuum Ubume this strategy becomes so much easier. Until then, I'm a huuuge fan of including a Dead Rider and a Belle, and then summoning things to tie up the enemy master. Against most Masters, assuming your opponent picked his to mess with you, you're going to rely on out-activating them and then using the Dead Rider to bring them back to their half of the board, or just playing it like Contain Power. Escape and Survive: Von Schill List, hands down. You're going to be basically summoning Onryo. Plant Evidence: Kirai does this strategy almost solo. Summon models on top of terrain features as needed. Night Terrors are always an acceptable supplement, but are largely unneeded. Reconnoiter: I, personally, like a Dead Rider list, but Gaki swarm can also work. Slaughter: Von Schill list. Pick off some models. Harass the enemy's objectives, and otherwise stay out of harm's way. Patience wins this. Supply Wagon: Out Activate the opponent, assassinate anything that gets in front of your wagon, keep at least one model next to the wagon. Treasure Hunt: Summon a Shikome on top of it. Have it run the treasure back, and leave it for something else. Turf War: Remember to summon into the oponent's deployment zone as needed. Night Terrors / Gaki can work. Honestly, I usually wind up going VS with this and just picking off most of my opponent's crew / summoning to reach them on their side of the board and tying them up. It's more about tying up the enemy's models in their half of the board than it is about killing/model count. Good Schemes: Bodyguard, Breakthrough, Grudge, Stake a Claim, Steal Relic (ONLY if the opponent has poor WP), Betrayed by Spirits (depending on the opponent's WP/Def). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Decado Posted December 4, 2011 Report Share Posted December 4, 2011 Thank you for the detailed answare, it really helped. Maybe i am a bit conservative here but i do not want to run a VS list with kirai. Talking about Jakuum Ubume is she good only if summoned to the middle of the battle or is she viable as a starting model? What combos are viable with her? Seems Madness can be a fine addition to her. What is your opinion about this subject? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulG Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 I only know theoryfaux with Ubume, so I'll reserve answers on her until the model comes out. She's a tar pit, so there's a definate advantage to summoning her on top of the enemy. Insidious Madness is a swiss army knife. Is it an objective runner? Is it a support model? Is it a set-up model? The answer to those questions and more is: Maybe. It's an excellent model, especially in Jack Daw / Hanged lists. When playing it, expect it to do ONE, singular thing. And then it will die horribly. But darn it, that one thing is usually worth it. Not wanting to run VS with Kirai is acceptable. I like it for some strategies because of the lower model count, emphasis on punch and less need for cards. I do not like unsummoned Shikome as my punch because it's too big of a telegraph to my opponent. Dead Rider and/or Jack Daw are acceptable substitutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 5, 2011 Report Share Posted December 5, 2011 Curious how other players feel about the drowned for Kirai. I have enjoyed them so far. For 4 SS it has become some thing of an auto include for my crews recently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sinistercats Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 Oh? Auto include? Have to admit I've looked at them and confused on their use. And Rare? Where people abusing something in playtesting? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I tend to like things that blow up when they die I find hitting my own models with the 2 inch defense check attack to works well. Its not an aura and works vs things that are often immune to aoe. Dreamer and von shill crews. At 4 points its not 2 expensive to kill off to summon other models if needed and its not some thing you can summon in so it makes a good option to hire. Not working for what you need sac it and make what you do need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 6, 2011 Report Share Posted December 6, 2011 I like using the Drowned if you happen to know you are playing the Kirai Mirror Match, which let me tell you is very trippy to play. Still doing testing on them otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 12, 2011 Report Share Posted December 12, 2011 Another thing about drowned is the 0 action that lets you push a model. The fact you can push them in the direction of your choice is very very useful. The range is much shorter then bells but it has advantages. This model also pairs up well with her new tarpit summons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iamthefly Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Hi, Can you suggest a 30ss list with suggestions on how to use it against mainly guild, suitable for beginners? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoulG Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 What's your strategy? Good working points Ressurectionists Crew - 30 - Scrap Kirai Ankoku -- 5 Pool Lost Love [2ss] Von Schill [10ss] Grave Spirit [1ss] Freikorps Librarian [9ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss] Standard VS + Kirai list at 30ss. The grave Spirit exist to have Absorb Spirit used on it. Ressurectionists Crew - 30 - Scrap Kirai Ankoku -- 4 Pool Lost Love [2ss] Jack Daw [9ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]The Drowned [4ss]The Drowned [4ss]The Drowned [4ss] The Drowned make for excellent shock troops and a good accompaniment to Jack Daw. You'll have issues with Perdita, though. Ressurectionists Crew - 30 - Scrap Ressurectionists Crew - 30 - Scrap Kirai Ankoku -- 4 Pool Lost Love [2ss] Onryo [5ss]Onryo [5ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Taelor [9ss] For more killy-based objectives. I can honestly build lists all day. It won't do you much good without knowing what strategy you have and what strategy your opponent has. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fetid Strumpet Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Against Guild? I really don't tend to take thing specifically based on faction. I find though that since most of my opponents play things that don't get me spirits that it feels like shackles falling off when I do. Assuming that you want a simple list based mainly on what is in the box I'd go with: Ressurectionists Crew - 30 - Scrap Kirai Ankoku -- 6 Pool Lost Love [2ss] Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Seishin [2ss]Datsue-Ba [7ss]Onryo [5ss]Onryo [5ss] This isn't the most competitive list by any means. It is however fairly easy to use, and based mainly on what is in the box. You'll get more use out of immediate revenge on Kirai and the Onryo vs Guild than anyone else, and the Onryo's ranged spell will assist you in being able to attack from a distance without needing to always summon something to do damage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tadaka Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 Woot some one else taking drowned im not the only one who loves them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ModollerMorgan Posted December 20, 2011 Report Share Posted December 20, 2011 A note that I haven't seen people post is Kirai's (0) Spirit food ability, it works on any model type and if it dies a Gaki is summoned. Works well for construct lists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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