Nicodem-Strategy and Tactics

[Jonas Albrecht]

Love this Tactica, Shekbo, hoping you update it soon to reflect Rising Powers.

Also, what prevents Nicodem from summoning a Desolation Engine?

[Mach_5]

Per the errata, it has the rule Desolate: this model cannot be summoned.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Per the errata, it has the rule Desolate: this model cannot be summoned.

Ah, thanks!

[tadaka]

Per the errata, it has the rule Desolate: this model cannot be summoned.

Keep in mind he can hire them as well as the spa. He also can summon spa to make one.

[shademu]

I have a question earlier in the thread it was stated when you use decay on your own model you should cheat down there defense. I thought they could auto-fail but you had to still flip the cards. Please correct me if I'm wrong I'm quite new. I apologize if this is the wrong spot for this post.

[shekbo]

Hm... you're right, I should update this. Not a lot going on for ol Nic in book two except for the wonderful bag of fun that is the Rogue Necromancy. but a few more interesting options, to be sure.

I'm actually not sure about the auto-failing thing. I dont have a whole lot of experience with attacking my own models, and usually the ruling is just to do it as if you were doing a regular attack. I usually use my worst card in hand to cheat down the defender's flip, and hope for a moderate or severe damage, because those include blast effects that heal whole clumps of your own zombies.

[Alondir]

We have treated it as when you auto fail it becomes equal, so with things like obay thats not a problem but when you want blasts off of it you need to win by a margin so you can cheat. otherwise if you just want the heal as long as the spell is cast you can chose to auto fail cos its on your WP

[shekbo]

True. so the way it plays is

Cards are flipped. Player looks at cards. If, say, the zombie actually beat nicodem by a large margin, player can then choose to auto-fail, counting the result and damage flip as if it was equal?

[quotemyname]

Yes.

However, you should remember that your zombies will gain better benefit from you paralyzing nearby enemy models with Nic than they will from you simply popping a heal on them. After all, they can only heal 2wd per Decay. 9/10 times most models have a weak damage stat of 2. So you're really only protecting your minions from one attack. However, if you Paralyze an adjacent enemy model, you're really protecting them from two! At least! If not worse!

I'll say it as many times as necessary. When running Nic, if you want offense, use Rigor Mortis. If you want Defense/Support use Decay.

[Jonas Albrecht]

Hm... you're right, I should update this. Not a lot going on for ol Nic in book two except for the wonderful bag of fun that is the Rogue Necromancy. but a few more interesting options, to be sure.

I'm actually not sure about the auto-failing thing. I dont have a whole lot of experience with attacking my own models, and usually the ruling is just to do it as if you were doing a regular attack. I usually use my worst card in hand to cheat down the defender's flip, and hope for a moderate or severe damage, because those include blast effects that heal whole clumps of your own zombies.

I cannot wait to field the Rogue Necromancy with Nicodem. Not many zoms have a lot of tricks to them, and I'm eager to play one that does.

Shekbo, what's your opinion on Nicodem and Molly?

[Q'iq'el]

I'll say it as many times as necessary. When running Nic, if you want offense, use Rigor Mortis. If you want Defense/Support use Decay.

Heh, I'm the first to admit Rigor Mortis is Nicodem's most powerful spell, but that advice is just too categorical.

First and foremost, Rigor Mortis is expensive. You need a 10+ card to pull it out and you need to go higher than that to ensure it goes through (unless you are dealing with a very low WP oponnent, which is situational).

Secondly, soulstoning RM most of the time is a waste (it's one thing to use it to disengage out of melée with Lilith, it's another to merely Paralyze opponents minions) - this is a binary spell you get no added benefit from using a Soulstone, other than it getting through. If you cannot get it through with your Control Hand alone, consider boosting the Decay instead.

A soulstoned Decay on the other hand will get damage boost and may bring additional bonuses, other than the primary effect.

In other words, healing for 2 is worse than Paralyzed only on paper, because Decay can be an AoE spell affecting multiple models - both friendly and unfriendly at the same time. Yes, 2 wounds alone may only extend the life of your model for a turn, but the value of the spell changes when you heal 3 of your models and damage 2 opponents (one for 3, one for 5)? That's 6 wounds healed, and 8 caused in one cast... and a possibility for a free Mindless Zombie or maybe even a new Control Card. BTW this feature of Decay is the reason why Vultures are so good - the easier it is to pull the right angles when casting it, the more devastating the effect can be.

And I'm a big proponent of Paralyzing attacks. I think those are among the most powerful abilities in the game. It's just not back and white and RM itself is in the realm of the situational spells - very powerful, but limited to occasional use both by cost and the effect limited to single model only.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Jonas Albrecht]

Boring question: Bete or KJ, which is better for Nicodem?

[Q'iq'el]

Boring question: Bete or KJ, which is better for Nicodem?

KJ has his fans and they'll stand by him no matter what, but I think Bête has more synergy with Nicodem. Her manner of entering play works better for his crew (outside normal entry methods, you can bring her from a Mindless Zombie sacrifice, when Nicodem gets attacked or even when you sacrifice a Mindless Zombie as a Corpse Counter, when summoning another model) and because she is a high-stat model, his buffs carry her even further. Besides, she's flexible and can bring killing power, Control Card drainage or Pralyzis to the table - all three abilities in high demand for Nico.

[Dark_Trainer]

I'm being told to avoid Crooked men, even though they work well with bells. Bells are more Seamus' thing.

I'm told Desperate mercenary and Guild Autopsy's which just came out are better to have. Especially at the start, more CHEAP models (and RANGED), when they die it's all good.

Also told some 4 corpse model which has 3 heads (which hasn't come out yet) is something I need to keep an eye out for? Any idea when it's released?

Also Vultures really haven't impressed me I might not be maximizing them...I'm honestly thinking about a grave spirit? 2 armor for nicodem seems awsome for 1pt?

I also bought 4 dogs, but haven't been thrilled with them. Was almost considering Necropunks since they can hold objectives, but I dunno...maybe having the dogs is nicer since they DIE and more counters kind of thing? I have Bette and not KJ so I don't need a KJ delivery system

Edited June 8, 2011 by Dark_Trainer

[Q'iq'el]

I'm being told to avoid Crooked men, even though they work well with bells. Bells are more Seamus' thing.

That's clear misinformation. First of all, you want to have a Belle or two for Nicodem. He can summon them, he can use them. Nicodem is a slow model with a relatively slow crew. There are three things he can do to change it:

- Hire fast models (Dogs, Necropunks). Works great, but lacks synergy with Nicodem's buffing abilities, that require entire force to stay bunched up.

- Spam Mortimer's Fresh Meat. Specifically designed to work for the crew, great synergy. Nicodem can choose to benefit from it too.

- Hire or Reanimate a Belle and Lure opponents towards your fighters.

Clearly the last option works very well and Crooked Men enjoy just as much synergy with this as they would in a Seamus list.

However, the main reason you take Crooked Men in Nicodem's crew is their very solid ranged attack and quite good melee capabilities when bolstered. After they die in close combat, you reanimate Punk Zombies in their place and kill the opponent.

I'm told Desperate mercenary and Guild Autopsy's which just came out are better to have. Especially at the start, more CHEAP models (and RANGED), when they die it's all good.

The Dogs are somewhat better for that (dying). Desperate mercenaries are limited to 2, so there's not much you can gain with them.

I looked at Guild Autopsies long and hard and I fail to see how they are any good for Nicodem.

- Unlike Crooked Men, they remain bad in combat even after you Bolster them.

- You can only Bolster their melee Cb. Ranged weapon's Cb is locked in the low 4 by the Guard Pistol rule.

- Unlike Dogs, they are very slow.

- Because they are Too far gone they don't generage Body Counters when they die. That is what makes them more than useless for Nicodem.

Arguably Guild Autopsies can help against low Wp crews, but low Wp crews are the crews Nicodem is already strong against.

The only Synergy they do have, is with McMourning, who can summon them for the cheap. For Nicodem to Reanimate one would be a pure waste of a powerful and expensive spell. Even for Mortimer it makes more sense to bring a Crooked Man or Belle, if you want to sacrifice entire turn for that.

Also told some 4 corpse model which has 3 heads (which hasn't come out yet) is something I need to keep an eye out for? Any idea when it's released?

Rogue Necromancy. Yes, this is the biggest and baddest model Nico can Reanimate and as such, it is a must-have once it's out. Unfortunately, it hasn't been announced yet, so it makes it September at the earliest.

Dead Rider is a solid option if you want a big hitter for the games right now. It will be out soon and it is a real beast. The only drawback is, you cannot Reanimate it (Unique).

Also Vultures really haven't impressed me I might not be maximizing them...I'm honestly thinking about a grave spirit? 2 armor for nicodem seems awsome for 1pt?

If you want flexibility, you'll get 2 Vultures and Grave Spirit and swap them depending on the Encounter.

The terrain is the major factor here - Vultures are life savers and benefit Nicodem greatly whenever terrain makes his crew even slower than usual (Bog for example), when there are many LoS blocking features (a village, rocky outcrops everywhere, lots of forests and trees) or when the opponent brings a horde of models.

Vultures are also one of the best tools to protect Body Counters from masters which can destroy them. You just have to play them smart not to loose them fast - don't be too greedy.

The way I play Vultures, when I play Nicodem, is to keep one behind enemy lines and the other on hand to dash out to grab Body counters for Nico. If Vultures do nothing at first, opponent typically keeps on ignoring them. Then after you join the combat, when most of your models are in place, you can Perch the Vulture behind the lines in a good place and use him to cast Decay at the models engaged with your frontline. As long as they blast, they will damage his models and heal yours at the same time, while Nicodem can safely stay out of LoS and focus on keeping his aura up and bringing back fresh undead.

The trick is to use one Vulture before you activate Nicodem, to get Eyes and Ears going, and the second closer to the end of the turn, to grab the Corpse Counters out of Nicodem's range.

I also bought 4 dogs, but haven't been thrilled with them. Was almost considering Necropunks since they can hold objectives, but I dunno...maybe having the dogs is nicer since they DIE and more counters kind of thing? I have Bette and not KJ so I don't need a KJ delivery system

I don't like Dogs myself. Easy to get counters are the chief reason to bring some I think, though they can run and grab counters for you in a Treasure Hunt etc. (IIRC a pair of dogs can become significant temporarily). Necropunks work better, but even then you'll need them only situationally (certain encounters only).

Most of the time if you start with a fighty Nicodem crew, you don't need all that many counters at the beginning. Mortimer's ability to create counters is very good now, with 1 counter per turn being quite achievable in most games, so by the time you engage, you can bring up an extra minion or two.

Edited June 10, 2011 by Q'iq'el

[Fetid Strumpet]

I have to say that it is entirely possible that the Rogue Necromancy would be out in August. I've been informed that last year's Gen Con Releases were not listed as part of the offical August release. So if there was a special edition sculpt of the Rogue Necromancy released, or if it was part of a boxed set that had its release at Gen Con, say Molly's, it is possible it would be out at that time.

[Ratty]

Belle are good in every Ressurectionist crew other than Kirai (I would even argue that you could sneak one in with her and it would work out OK). Even if you don't start with them and summon them later with Nicodem. I've seen them used great with Nicodem walking forward and then dumping them on an elevated position with good view of the battlefield.

[Dark_Trainer]

Thanks for all the awsome replies! So it sounds like I DO need the crooked men, belles, Grave spirit, and the rogue necromancy to have better options for what I can field.

I didn't realize the autopsies didn't drop counters!? I was thinking initially a large 'cheap' models other than Bette, Mortimer, and convict gunslinger that I PAY for around a 35pt battle. Rest would have been filled with dogs and whatever...i like the idea the belles make nico faster...that's big.

[Ratty]

Thanks for all the awsome replies! So it sounds like I DO need the crooked men, belles, Grave spirit, and the rogue necromancy to have better options for what I can field.

I didn't realize the autopsies didn't drop counters!? I was thinking initially a large 'cheap' models other than Bette, Mortimer, and convict gunslinger that I PAY for around a 35pt battle. Rest would have been filled with dogs and whatever...i like the idea the belles make nico faster...that's big.

Have a look at Desperate Mercenaries, I'm thinking of using 2 instead of dogs with my McMourning.

[poulpox]

you can Perch the Vulture behind the lines in a good place and use him to cast Decay at the models engaged with your frontline. As long as they blast, they will damage his models and heal yours at the same time, while Nicodem can safely stay out of LoS and focus on keeping his aura up and bringing back fresh undead.

Is this allowed? Vulture's Ears and Eyes (or whatever it's called ) doesn't allow gun icon spells to be cast through the vulture I think.

[pixelgeek]

Is this allowed? Vulture's Ears and Eyes (or whatever it's called ) doesn't allow gun icon spells to be cast through the vulture I think.

Just checked and you are correct no spells with gun icon ranges

[Zee]

...IF it is in melee. Read the whole sentence

[pixelgeek]

...IF it is in melee. Read the whole sentence

Hence perching it. :-)

[Dark_Trainer]

So other than lacking corpse counters, how effective do you think this would be.

Nicodem

Vulture

Mortimer

Bette

Killjoy

Equals 30 SS, so in 30 SS game he has a cache of 3, or in a 35 SS game I could bring a canine (maybe necropunk), or another vulture. Basically first vulture is to deliver Killjoy and Bette in one fell, attack...Mortimer is to assist with bringing corpse counters up over time, and vulture can companion nicodem to bring him forward and BOLSTER both killjoy AND bette after sacrificing the vulture. The idea to drop the Ressurectionist NUKE.

Edited June 15, 2011 by Dark_Trainer

[Mazin1]

Necro thread, RISE!!

Is Molly worth bringing with Neco? I'm thinking of getting her box,

I even threw a list with her.

Nico(vulture) 6 ss

Molly(necro machine)

Mort

4 doggies

2 desprate mercs