Adding a Faction

[hellojohn99]

Hi all,

I'm a new play who was just introduced to the game a week ago at Origins game con.

This may have been mentioned in the past but is there any talk of adding a "good" or good-ish faction. I am sure there are a lot of people (like myself) who LOVE the game mechanics but would prefer a bit more wholesome faction to then paint/play especially in a "character driven game".

An Idea my game group had when I showed them my mini's -n- introduced them to the rules was this:

Have a Faction called 'Church' or whatever.. and make it composed of groups from various faiths, beliefs, humanist backgrounds, etc that are "scared" of what the breach represents, what comes through it (ie the monsters/killers) or whatever... but have this group be a loosly banded together group (like the exisiting factions) who are all out with the goal of Either closing the breach OR defeating all the twisted soul sucking creatures abiding there.

This group would fit the current theme nicely because 1/2 the members would be good for the right reasons out there hunting portal monsters etc but (like in all churches) the other 1/2 could be currupt or selfserving etc.

Here is a list of possible charaters that would make up the above faction:

Leaders in bold=

The Preacher -

Hellfire -preacher's magical giant killer hound

Brimstone -preacher's half-machine/borg giant killer hound

Red Cardinal -

Inquizitors

Deamon Hunters

Black Bishop -

Swiss Guard

Zombie Missionaries (borgs)

Other Faction members:

Templars

Freed Soul (a soul's energy freed from powering mage stones which breifly seeks to freeothers/closebreach before vanishing)

Harvest Angel (an angel but oddly is weakened near the breach and thus can be vanquished but they keep returning to close breach and destroy things/creatures around there)

It is an just a little idea but we think it would invite more players towards the game and add another factions that would fit... and if nothing else some of the above suggested names/peices would look awesome as mini's having it out in a tooth & nail battle with the other inhabitants.

[Wodschow]

Is it enough to merely believe that you are doing the right thing to be considered 'good'?

I think the Neverborn would disagree with you that hunting 'portal monsters' is a 'good' thing to do. They're the native inhabitants of Malifaux (so as long as we slaughter ALL of them, noone's got a problem, right?).

To me Malifaux would lose something if there were anyone who could truly be considered 'good'. And I certainly wouldn't want those personalities to be religious fanatics.

Finally subjugating the masses through the means of religion seems like a perfectly Guild'ish thing to do, I don't think a new faction would be required for something like that.

For underground cults or something like that Ressers or Arcanists seems like perfectly suitable factions already.

[hellojohn99]

To address your points (I understand you're giving your opinions and they are good [so do not take my replies in the wrong spirit either, there is, however, a potentially large fan base that

- I think a with all the "non-good" already in the game it would not be a big deal to throw a bone to people who don't relish playing mass murders & psychos but love the game mechanics and enjoy a good monster hunter/paladin type.

- There are a lot of units that border on the demonic, either through nature or attitude or ethic, which is usually/generally/historically is opposed by those of religious tenets or secular huministic adherents.

-I'm not sure if your reading the same fiction I am BUT please re-read the descriptions of the neverborn in the book "monsters... full of hate and rage" , many of who sneak through the city, malifaux, (outside the breach) to murder and do other univerally considered evil acts. These are not like the inhabitants in avatar the movie who just wanna be left alone so they can ride dinos.

- correct, it is NOT enough to believe that you are the right thing to be considered good (which is why lady justice [who it says is the sole decider of what is just taking things into her own hands/judgement and is tied for the closest current thing to a decend leader] is not that good ) but it is a good thing to stop a unrepentant and active murderer(s). Even if that active murdering is just an animal it should be contained (to its side of the breach by CLOSING the breach) or stopped.

*Being that the game is chalked full of this kind of murderer (including most neverborn) there are plenty of oppertunities for good guardians to come into play.

- Having religious feel works gamewise b/c it is always a major player in history and would certainly have an active interest in this business of "soul-stones" etc.

-ethically, what is happening in Maulifaux, would draw diverse "wannabe heroes" from all sorts of "good" creeds both religious & secular under a common banner ... not just all the cult factions and neverborn but even the way the guild is would bring out those in opposition to it on ethical terms.

-finally:

"To me Malifaux would lose something if there were anyone who could truly be considered 'good'."

---that is the whole point, this idea may not have much traction in these forums currently b/c the game may not currently draw such people as there are no truly good (or even honestly mostly good) characters in a character driven game. so I am not suprized It is a missing market. The 1st friend I showed the game to (before I explained it all) was "why'd you buy that crap" (he saw a game of murderers fighting killer babies being hunter by selfish power abusers/seekers). Can the game go fine on bad guys (and semibads) alone... YES.. but it can do better, make for money, fans, ect, with a faction for those that want something with a tad of good guys (don't like it don't play that ONE faction). AND it would NOT alter the game as one faction is a definate minority... a pill no one has to swallow... just throwing a bone to people that would like to support the company that made an awesome game but would like a wholesome side (or atleast 1/2 of that side, which lets religion work good too b/c it has alot of people out to do good And alot of people out to use good so they can do evil)

rather than be forced to just use the system and buy mini's from another maker and game in another universe/setting.

Why make it hard for fans to be loyal when it is soo easy to give them one small group to collect. Everyone else has Many groups to collect..

This rant is long... so I'll hush up and listen to all the other commentors now.

[Sliver Chocobo]

Whenever i've seen religous factions in game they tend to act "for the greater good" and are often more destructive than the other factions, personly i would like to be at most a sub facton of the guild or the Arcanists

[Major_Gilbear]

Firstly: Welcome!

Leaders in bold=

The Preacher -

Hellfire -preacher's magical giant killer hound

Brimstone -preacher's half-machine/borg giant killer hound

Red Cardinal -

Inquizitors

Deamon Hunters

Black Bishop -

Swiss Guard

Zombie Missionaries (borgs)

Other Faction members:

Templars

Freed Soul (a soul's energy freed from powering mage stones which breifly seeks to freeothers/closebreach before vanishing)

Harvest Angel (an angel but oddly is weakened near the breach and thus can be vanquished but they keep returning to close breach and destroy things/creatures around there.

...I don't really understand how you could possibly think that these suggestions would have a "good" moral alignment? Giant hounds, zombies, cyborgs and inquisitors are and have never been seen traditionally as "good" in any way whatsoever.

Most of what you want seems to me to be in the game already; the Guild and the Arcanists.

Sure, they are not truly "good" either, but the Ortegas are Neverborn monster hunters through and through, and Lady Justice and the Death Marshalls hunt down the undead. I would imagine that that makes the general human population of Malifaux quite glad of them, even if they don't like their Guild overlords.

And the Arcanists survive as a faction because they seek to end the Guild's monopoly and influence, and so garner quite a lot of support from the workers and the downtrodden in Malifaux. They are led by Ramos who unionised the mining labour and has designed and built many machines to help improve the working conditions of the indentured Guild workforce.

In Malifaux, players can find good and bad in both factions and Masters if they want to.

For example, to the Neverborn, the humans are invaders who have taken over the city of Malifaux and are trying to extinguish them. That the Neverborn are described as hateful monsters is subjective; they might not all be that way, or regard themselves in that way, or the description might be from a human inhabitant in the Guild-controlled area of Malifaux who knows nothing about them aside from rumours or Guild propaganda.

There are also crews who are not ideologically motivated, and who are not aligned along any "evil" beliefs or grand schemes; like the Viktorias or the Gremlins. They could be considered "good" just because they are trying to survive rather than seeking to eliminate opposition or to promulgate their views as the correct ones to have.

Finally, I wouldn't mind a single religious or ideologically-motivated model (I think an Ortega preacher would be great!), but that's about it. I *really* get fed up of having to have a full-on religious nut-job army/faction in seemingly every game; it's simply tedious and unimaginative.

[Loki]

Firstly: Welcome!

Finally, I wouldn't mind a single religious or ideologically-motivated model (I think an Ortega preacher would be great!), but that's about it. I *really* get fed up of having to have a full-on religious nut-job army/faction in seemingly every game; it's simply tedious and unimaginative.

2nd'ed. I think you have a great idea in the "Freed Soul" model, but as far as needing a "good faction" to get more people into the game...well, anyone who would say "why did you buy that crap" is probably not going to enjoy the game anyway. They certainly wouldn't like the fluff nor would they like playing against the other factions.

I am not saying that I like leaving money on the table, but sooner or later you have to define what your game will and won't be and what demographic you want to go after. I think that Eric and Nate have done an amazing job with that.

[Lucidicide]

So I'm not opposed to getting a few goody goodies in the mix, but I feel like addressing some of your points

-I'm not sure if your reading the same fiction I am BUT please re-read the descriptions of the neverborn in the book "monsters... full of hate and rage" , many of who sneak through the city, malifaux, (outside the breach) to murder and do other univerally considered evil acts. These are not like the inhabitants in avatar the movie who just wanna be left alone so they can ride dinos.

The inhabitants in the Avatar movie are not a good example of how a native group behaves when their land is invaded. Monsters is a relative term (look at Monsters, Inc.), and being full of hate and rage is not a far stretch if you're being kicked out of your homes. I'm pretty sure a lot of people were full of hate and rage at the big economic collapse, that doesn't make them bad people.

"To me Malifaux would lose something if there were anyone who could truly be considered 'good'."

---that is the whole point, this idea may not have much traction in these forums currently b/c the game may not currently draw such people as there are no truly good (or even honestly mostly good) characters in a character driven game. so I am not suprized It is a missing market. The 1st friend I showed the game to (before I explained it all) was "why'd you buy that crap" (he saw a game of murderers fighting killer babies being hunter by selfish power abusers/seekers). Can the game go fine on bad guys (and semibads) alone... YES.. but it can do better, make for money, fans, ect, with a faction for those that want something with a tad of good guys (don't like it don't play that ONE faction). AND it would NOT alter the game as one faction is a definate minority... a pill no one has to swallow... just throwing a bone to people that would like to support the company that made an awesome game but would like a wholesome side (or atleast 1/2 of that side, which lets religion work good too b/c it has alot of people out to do good And alot of people out to use good so they can do evil)

rather than be forced to just use the system and buy mini's from another maker and game in another universe/setting.

Why make it hard for fans to be loyal when it is soo easy to give them one small group to collect. Everyone else has Many groups to collect..

The wholesome side of Malifaux.... interesting concept. However, I don't think anyone is "forced to just use the system." You're certainly not forced to buy minis from another maker. And I would argue if you're feeling this way about the game, you're not actually a loyal fan but that's neither here nor there.

I just feel that the dark and gritty is a whole aspect of Malifaux. At the point that you're willing to use their system with different models in a different world... wow. Why not just say "OK, I've rewritten some of the fluff and Perdita is now good." It's easy to play the models outside of their fluff, and at the end of the day no one is going to call you on what's inside your head as you play.

I appreciate your points, and I think there might be something to be gained by having some good guys, but as you point out, that's just not really where Malifaux is as a game. You can pretend differently with the fluff and all, there are many ways you can still play.

Also, I've demoed the game for many people now and play with a bunch of others, and never once have I heard someone call it crap, especially not because there are a lot of "bad" things. I'm honestly surprised to hear that.

- correct, it is NOT enough to believe that you are the right thing to be considered good (which is why lady justice [who it says is the sole decider of what is just taking things into her own hands/judgement and is tied for the closest current thing to a decend leader] is not that good ) but it is a good thing to stop a unrepentant and active murderer(s). Even if that active murdering is just an animal it should be contained (to its side of the breach by CLOSING the breach) or stopped.

*Being that the game is chalked full of this kind of murderer (including most neverborn) there are plenty of oppertunities for good guardians to come into play.

On a more light-hearted note, I would argue that any religious zealot who comes through and tries to impose his ideas of right and wrong and starts throwing the brick at people is not exactly good.

[macgowan]

Everyone this side of the breach is in it for the Soulstones, whether for purely selfish reasons or to help those in charge Earthside consolidate their power back home. By their nature, Soulstones appear to suck the souls out of the dying and use them to power arcane magic.

No truly "good" person would have ANYTHING to do with that. Hence, no White Hats this side of the Breach.

So, look at the local perspective. Sure, the Guild is a bunch of assholes. However, Lady J and Perdita destroy those nasty Undead and Neverborn who cause so much grief for the local folks just trying to make an honest living.

With that in mind, here's my breakdown from the point of view of "innocent" human inhabitants Breachside:

Good:

Ramos, Perdita, Lady Justice

Bad:

Seamus, Sonnia, Nicodem, Zoraida, Lilith, Pandora, Som'er, Leveticus

Could go either way in my opinion:

McMourning, Viktorias, Marcus, Rasputina

As a whole, Arcanists and Guild seem to be the most "good."

And I don't wanna hear about those poor Neverborn trying to defend their homeland. The means by which they do so are evil.

Good discussion BTW, even if OT

[Loki]

To the everyday person, I would think the Miners & Steamfitters Union is probably the closest they see as "good". An organization that fights for the "little guy"...

The Guild keep the peace but they do it through an iron fist...

[Tumling]

Seamus is not a bad person...

He is just misunderstood.

It was all a setup from Rasputina's side...

[Angus Khan]

I agree with what wodschow said above... One of the aspects of this game that I particularly enjoy is the lack of distinct "good" and "evil." Just as in real life, morality is a gray area, and depends on your point of view. (So in effect, whichever faction you play as is "good"... everyone's a winner! )

Plus, I believe Eric mentioned at one point that their wasn't any plans for a religious faction... no idea what thread that was in, though...

[hellojohn99]

"Good" points all.

to address some main themes:

1) "...I don't really understand how you could possibly think that these suggestions would have a "good" moral alignment? Giant hounds, zombies, cyborgs and inquisitors are and have never been seen traditionally as "good" in any way whatsoever."

Sure, I agree.. I'd love to have all paladins on unicorns etc etc but that would not fit the art or theme at all so we attempted to name stuff might. A honest just police officer might have the same or meaner weapons than the mass murderer he is trying to stop but that does not make him bad. That was the idea anyhow.

2) Close the breach. you're all correct, the good would not likely want soul sucking stones which is why they would likely like to stop the rampant murderers in the town and close the breach for what they would beleive to be everyones benifit (which would likely be true as the breach just seems to bring a whole new level or violence and misery to all involved). Good would be being out there for the benifit of others, autruism, not to get rich or serve some mega-corp that is abusing everyone. And no, just trying to keep existing while raiding and killing (ie goblins) doesn't make one "good"... at best choatic neutreral lol.. but seriously common' there is obviously some major moral relavitism going on here if people are trying to paint just existing and doing one's own thing for one's own personal benifit not caring who is hurt in the way as good. I'm not gonna agrue this point cause it would be a waste of time.

3) Is anybody reading the fluff of this "character driven game" ??? If you are defending the neverborn as pissed off natives then you are not. We have a nearly all who delight in causing others pain & terror and go out of their way for "victems" to kill... candy.. .baby cade.. teddy .. nephilim that consume "Hapless" victems.. Dopplegangers that "infiltrate the city and perpetuate gruesome crimes".. pandora...

Geeze.. anyone who attempts to play these all off as just some angry natives content to defend their homes and be left alone etc etc is just being either really ignorant of the fluff out there both lerarally and in tone Or is jut being insultive (to the intelect of anyone who has taken the time to read it).

4) the suggestions where just that, suggestions; so thanks for the feedback and it looks like the current norm will remain so which again is not suprizing given who the game currently is built to attract (with all it's factions) and thus who is active here to veiw and respond. Which is fine We'll just make our own modded minis/fluff and I'll just run a lady justice band in organized play etc.

Ramos- btw is not all that good considering he has moved the union into a huge crime underworld.. which shows his true colors if you will as that is a path he had no "good" reason to embark upon that is known so far. anyhow...

5) a suggestion that would not cost the company anything is to make a few "stat cards" online with some fluff for a good group out there to close the breach or help people in the dangerous/abusive city. A goup not on some evil payroll (maybe a sub-group in the mercs). and See what people think of them at cons and if they are played/cards downloaded... if it disrupts the game or is unpopular they can be deleted - if they get a growing fan following or become generally liked/tolarated then their official inculsion into the game as eventual mini's can be considered.

Another long read huh well that's my 2 cents for my payed dues ($60 dollars in stuff and intro-ing the to others )

Thanks for all the reads and consideration.

pps- An skinny amish looking Preacher dual pistol weilding type with guard dogs named hellfire and brimstone would look awesome with the current game theme.

[Ciaran]

I would be saddened if there was a clear cut "good guy" in this game. It would lose a lot of the political depth and complexity that makes it that much more realistic and enjoyable.

Paladins on unicorns? Are you seriously trying to make Malifaux the Hell Kitty of the gaming world?

That might have come off as too strong. I just seriously take issue with any game or fantasy world that says there are clear distinctions between good guys and bad guys all the time. Those sorts of archetypes work well in fairy tales and fables, and that's about it.

Edited July 2, 2010 by Ciaran

[Wodschow]

I think I'd written a whole essay on the lack of 'goodness' in the world around me aswell as in the past, before I caught myself going off topic.

Bottomline is that I'm truly impressed with your belief in humanity.

To adress your points from a Malifaux-perspective:

1)

If using zombies to fight doesn't conflict with your conception of ethical 'goodness' then why don't you consider any of the Resurrectionists to be 'good'?

2)

From a Gremlin perspective So'mer mightn't be an saint, but if he through the raids (on an by the way entirely different species (for whom I see no reason that the Gremlins should sympathize with in the first place)) improves the life of the average Gremlin even by just a little doesn't that mean something? Sometimes a cruel leader is better for the people than a soft and pacifistic one would have been.

3)

I'm under the impression that most/all the fluff is written from a human viewpoint, simply because we are human. Truth is we do not know much about the schemes of the Neverborn.

4)

I don't think the game is the game is intentionally directed at people with no faith in humanity.

They gave us fabolous miniatures and a most interesting rulesset - I think this should be enough for most wargamers to take interest in.

5)

I don't think it's all that simple.. And saying that it wouldn't cost them anything is somewhat ignorant. It takes alot of effort to make up characters and balancing them. Writing fluff and even editing the stat cards has to be done aswell. If they then retracted everything people who had converted neat models and such would most likely not be too happy about it.

Finally - when you look at other gamesystems do you see any 'good' guys?

I see none in 40k and while I'm not much into Warmachine I don't think anything's black and white there either.

I'm not trying to make any personal attack here, I'm aware it might be coming out that way and I wish to apologize for it.

[HPSoundwave]

I just bought my first crew, I have yet to play a game, but I have read the book. Honestly there doesn't seem to be a need for a "good" faction. I mean other then ressurectionists there really isn't any super outright evil faction. Even the neverborn are more or less we gotta get these humans out of our home. So they are like the Native American tribes of malifaux. It even says in the book that no one knows why they look like demons if it is a response or was inspiration.

I think I trust the game creator to add a faction if they want.

[Lucidicide]

hellojohn99, I think you make good points, honestly. I just think that you'd get further if you suggested less religious good guys But seriously, run a Guild Guard list. Those are your standard policemen just trying to preserve the peace. Run them with someone like Perdita and just say she's on the up and up. There are a lot of options in the game if you want to try to be a good guy.

I do think there's a lot to be said for the fact that the game doesn't have a straight up good faction. There is no way this wasn't intentional. I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "who the game currently is built to attract" in a post about how there are no good guys. People with questionable morals? :-P I think the game is built to attract people who want to play a well-designed wargame with an interesting story. I don't think anyone who designed this said "If we want to attract x type of people we need to make sure to have no good guys."

As for the Neverborn, they are just angry natives and they are not content to just defend their homes. As has been mentioned, the fluff is just a perspective on them. If an animal kills a person, no one really thinks on a scale of good vs evil. It's instinctual. On the same token, ascribing human traits and values to non-humans makes some large leaps. Saying the Neverborn are bad because they cause pain to humans might be a huge mistake. I mean, look at your language. Infiltrating the city and committing crimes? What crimes? Crimes are only crimes if they violate human law. Go out of their way for victims to kill? You mean attacking your enemy in a war? They aren't victims, they are enemy combatants.

To use your own language, I think that anyone who brands the Neverborn as evil for being different and fighting back in a brutal guerrilla war for their very existence is "either really ignorant of the fluff out there both lerarally and in tone Or is jut being insultive (to the intelect of anyone who has taken the time to read it)"

[AntiZombie]

Lucidicide makes alot of good points with regards to how to play a "good faction" Lady justice is an option as well. She is in fact a hero of the people and in the fluff the gulid guardsmen and peon police officers respect her and look to her as a beacon of hope and justice (guess thats why her name is lady justice hu hehehe). So the option of Perdita or Lady justice leading a crew of hired "police" officers is a very good idea. The guild may be an oppressive group trying to control an uncontrollable town but there are certainly those who shine as a symbol of hope and justice who will persuade the neutral ( guardsmen) to be good and do what is right. Edited July 3, 2010 by AntiZombie

[Grot 6]

In movies like, "The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly", "The Wild Bunch", Once Upon a Time in the West", "Django", 3:10 to Yuma, There is no "Good Guy with a White Hat on".

As a matter of fact, a "Good guy" doesn't exist.

That was something that some tool in hollywierd came up with to sell movies.

The real west was hard core, violent, and cutting edge.

The "rule of law" was Winchester, Colt, and Springfield.

"He who has the gold, Soulstone, or minions to push thier agenda, makes the rules."

Your best bet to as close to a "Good guy" you are probibly going to find in this game might be one of those hired guns, Mercenaries, or some of those "Human" type gunslingers.

We're supposed to be playing in a world of "Wild wierd west, Gothic cobblestone streets of jack the ripper, or some sort of sewer-world where everything is like a psyched out conspiracy.

I play another game where the "Religious" thing is an element, and unless you are playing in a certian type of group with that sort of a sensability of depravity, you arn't going to get a large following for this sort of thing.

As for your faction description, you have those elements in the already established factions.

No one is good or evil..er, then the other. The factions have about as much of an equal footing then any I've seen in a game, and I think that might be what I think is the cool part about it.

Other miniatures games out there all have some sort of whooooo whizz bang!! that is the be all and end all that you have to have to "Win the game!".

That special H bomb model, or character that pretty much ends the game when he or she pops up on the table.

In this game, I might be new, because I don't see it yet.

The best thing I think is that each and every faction has something that they bring to the table, and you can play them goodie two shoes, or cold bloodedly ruthless.

Cowpunk. at it's best.

[Danyeru]

Whenever i've seen religous factions in game they tend to act "for the greater good" and are often more destructive than the other factions, personly i would like to be at most a sub facton of the guild or the Arcanists

I think the arcanists have plenty of subfactions (i.e. Cult of December, MS&U, Order of Chimera). So if the psudo-religious group were to make an appearance, it may have a better fit with the outcasts or the guild. Though, the guild is a bit crowded as is.

When I think of religion in this kind of setting, the first thing that comes to mind is the Crusades, then the puritan witch hunts. So if they did incorporate a religious faction, I highly doubt they would be the 'good guys'. (Might have some neat mechanics though. A casters bane, for sure )

[macgowan]

The only way to introduce an altruistically good faction is for the game to have some mechanic besides SS. A true servant of Goodness/God would never use soulstones. Here's my take on it:

New Trait - "Holy" - Cost 0*

*When recruiting this model, your opponent gains X Soulstones. These may immediately be used to recruit minions.

Blessed - Abilities which require Soulstones to be used may not target Holy models. Soulstones may not be used in duels against Holy models.

Retribution - Every time your crew uses a Soulstone, permanently reduce this model's Wp by 1. Every time your opponent uses a SS, permanently raise this model's Wp by 1.

[shekbo]

My main problem with this is that in real life, you don't see many perfectly "good people".

I mean, right now we've got a protector of the people/robin hood type (Ramos) who protects and employs criminals to help the common people of Malifaux. He also ships a large amount of soulstones to his people earthside, where we can assume more of the same is going on. Maybe he breaks laws. is he still "evil?"

We have a folk hero (Perdita) who spends her days fighting with the monsters that threaten life in Malifaux. In what way can we consider her evil, if any?

We have a woman dedicated to the ideals of justice who uses the power given to her by the corrupt government to wipe out the scourge of the hideous undead. Maybe she employs some less savory elements (the executioner) to achieve her goals, but in the end, they're acting for the greater good.

From a realistic perspective, you're not going to get any more "good" than that. There are a lot of people working in the grey area (Viktoria, Marcus, Sonnia) and admittedly a lot of very evil people (ressurrectionists, Neverborn, etc) but truly, the point of a character given game is that you're left to define the characters.

In real life, not even paladins are purely good guys. There are a lot of very bad people, and a lot of the good people have to take on some of the bad to fight it. If there were good people in Malifaux, they wouldn't be fighting at all. They'd be running the hospitals, churches, schools on the side of the breach. All the characters in Malifaux have fairly deep motivations, many of them for you to decide.

Take, for example, McMourning. On the surface, he's a clearly evil semi-mad to completely mad doctor. But is that the only way you could define him? Why was he brought to the breach? He's a medical professional, he was brought there to study. Why was he studying? Perhaps he was driven to use his genius and the unknown magics of Malifaux to find a cure for the disease afflicting his family earthside. Discovery of the Necromantic arts of Malifaux may have corrupted his once noble purpose, and driven him from the guild, but he could still be searching for answers, his curiosity driven by a desire to help his family.

[tenabrae]

I maintain the Neverborn are the good guys... trying to protect humanity from themselves through object lessons.

The name of the game, malifaux could be broken down into 'false enemy' with a bit of fiddling through french and latin.

Edited July 10, 2010 by tenabrae

[redstripe]

I think one of the major themes of Malifaux, is that this game and this story is about men and women. Leaving aside the Neverborn for a moment, the characters depicted in this game are flawed people, just like real people, just like the people we historically look to as heroes.

I think a perfect example is Ramos. There is -no doubt- that he does good. The Mechanical Canary and the beautiful Hollow Marsh Pumping Station save innocent human lives just as much as any Neverborn Hunter or Zombie Killer. These creations exist beyond reproach. They are good.

But Ramos, the man, like all men, is flawed. He is self-righteous and believes the good he is capable of is justification for the evil he performs. In his quest to dethrone the Guild, he would replace the Governor General with himself, a man equally capable of murder, propaganda, and perhaps even tyrannical rule.

When you play Ramos, you have the option, in the narrative of your battles, to represent him in his altruistic moments, defending the miners and the downtrodden or to represent him in his criminal moments, sabotaging the Guild or pursuing wealth. That is what a man is, good and evil together.

Of all the characters in the game, I would say that Viktoria most closely fits my definition of good. In the card reading given to Viktoria by Zoraida, the hag states that Viktoria wields Masamune's sword because she wishes to become a hero, like the man from the sword's story. If that's true, that Viktoria wants to become a hero, what more altruistic goal is there than that?

To play a character that is "good" because his actions are endorsed by his god's holy text can be a similar moral challenge. There are tons of wonderful stories that depict holy-men struggling with their faith. And if we hold paladins to be the highest example of the good, holy knight, what of the Knights of the Round Table, a group epitomized not only by their heroic and righteous works, but by the affairs, indecencies, and scandals that ultimately destroyed their utopian court.

Just because a group proclaims that it is the mortal agent of a righteous god does not mean those people are capable of living up to that ideal. If a religious "good" group were added to the game, have no doubt that this fact would be explored in their theme.

For the Neverborn, I think it is important to remember that these creatures are -not- human. Ethics and morality may not exist for them in the way it does for humans. Just as the perception of ethics differs between cultures on this planet, the Neverborn are foreign and alien and it is very clear that their life and biology are incredibly different than humankind's. The Neverborn don't exist in the same way humans do and so it is difficult to assign our standards to their worldview. What they do, within their own ethical framework, may be their very definition of good.

And one final thought about the world. At several points, it is described that there is an energy in this world that permeates everything. Those newly arrived in the world describe a tingle on the back of their neck. It may be that simply living in this world has some kind of effect on someone's sanity and morality. Certainly something to consider. Can any human man or woman remain good when subjected to the atmosphere of this world?

Gosh, I can rant. Oh well. Those are my thoughts.

[Flikfutch87]

I don't remember who came up with the concept, but I still think the bar none best idea for a new faction would be a Twisted Carny. It fits into the world almost too perfectly.

[Hand_of_Vecna]

I'm going to come out and say it "There being no set good guys in Malifaux appeals to me". Aside from the awesome story and world of Malifaux that they just don't fit into, I find people like the Op's friends annoying. I generally dislike people who play marines cause their the "good guys" in 40k.

It's a wargame in a fantasy world but, they feel like they need to play a particular faction to claim moral high ground. BTW, some space wolves players are ok.

I'm not a curmudgeon like some previous posters seem to be and I play good characters in plenty of other things like D&D or most video games (at least for my first character). I just like how Malifaux feels as it is now.

I also get worried by the number of threads where people suggest or ask for certain new models that don't fit malifaux or for the faction they want it in. I really wish people would get a feel for the game and what every faction, master and sub-faction does before asking for new models because there is are very clear mechanical difference between factions that could easily be lost by introducing all the figures a player that uses a faction or master exclusively would like to be able to put in their crew.

I really don't think a new faction is called for, if it existed it would just drain resources from the most similar factions (Guild and Arcanists in this case.)

Myself I have just one new model idea a fig with a big hammer with a head made of depleted soulstone. Whenever he gets a kill a soulstone is added to his crew's cache. Not sure where to put him maybe a mercenary maybe he could have a reduced cost for one of the guild master's like ramos and jonah have. (I'm actually planning to model my Jonah like this though, of course, it will have no mechanical effect.

Also if you really want a good guy

Perdita-She works for the guild and the guild is less than perfect but killing nephalim doesn't pay much otherwise and they don't taste good so she has to feed her family somehow. Working for the guild really shouldn't be a blackmark for her.

Ramos- The only real negative I've heard is that he run's a criminal organization. Considering what the goverment is like being a criminal isn't anything resembling evil.