Versus Lady J

[Hatchethead]

I launched a sub forum specific search on this topic and found a few threads, but all were circa 2009. For the most part, the advice was "play defensively", "use whatever ranged attacks you can" and "don't go toe to toe" ... has this advice changed? Has the errata introduced anything new?

Our group is small but we already have one Lady J player. I'm the only Rezer at the moment, Lady J and her anti-Rez crew scare the poops out of me. I haven't had a chance to play against her yet but the clash is unavoidable. I'd appreciate advice! I'll be bringing either McMourning or Nicodem. Is one vastly superior to the other, versus Lady J?

[MadArcanist]

McMourning. With one spell Lady J can kill all your Mindless Zombies within a good range. At least, if lucky, you can pull off a scalpel sling, Rancid Transplant, and get lucky with a couple of swings.

Other then that Keep her at range and don't let her charge. She already cancels out Hard to Wound 1 and with a Cb of 7 she will hurt you on charges and still get to swing again. Her Death Marshals are better at shooting, but don't let them kill you with a CC attack, cause you won't get a counter off it.

All in all Lady J is gonna be your hardest fight, but she is beatable, just be careful how you confront her.

[Brochilles]

Hanged, If you got'em. Lady J and her crew normally get +2 to defensive Wp duels against undead, but the Hanged's "Relentless Terror" (?) negates this. Hanged are especially brutal if your Lady J opponent runs with the Governor's Proxy as their totem. (Hanged force alot of Morale duels, and Proxy destroys any friendly model in LoS that fails Morale.)

[Hookers]

yeah definitely under no circumstances use nicodem i would say.

hanged are definitely a good choice (can't remember off the top of my head if lady j crew has any magic weapons) as well as some crooked men maybe. hanged are a pretty natural combo here really (could even try out jack daw), combined with tons of puppies giving people -2 wp could be pretty devastating.

give bete noire a try too, since you might not be getting corpse counters you might as well be able to throw her in. she can give you good damage output and can paralyze people as well. i've only played against lady j once with seamus but not letting her go at all via rough trade, undead pyschosis, and bete noire was pretty key.

mcm might be able to go toe to toe with her even if you are able to time things right and heal yourself, but i would take max ss to make sure she misses as much as possible.

[Lucidicide]

yeah definitely under no circumstances use nicodem i would say.

hanged are definitely a good choice (can't remember off the top of my head if lady j crew has any magic weapons) as well as some crooked men maybe. hanged are a pretty natural combo here really (could even try out jack daw), combined with tons of puppies giving people -2 wp could be pretty devastating.

give bete noire a try too, since you might not be getting corpse counters you might as well be able to throw her in. she can give you good damage output and can paralyze people as well. i've only played against lady j once with seamus but not letting her go at all via rough trade, undead pyschosis, and bete noire was pretty key.

mcm might be able to go toe to toe with her even if you are able to time things right and heal yourself, but i would take max ss to make sure she misses as much as possible.

So this is all with the assumption that you know what master/crew you're going up against, right?

[Hookers]

yeah... lady j

i would try to avoid using nicodem against the guild entirely, honestly, but lady j just has his number in particular

[Lucidicide]

yeah... lady j

Haha. Thanks I actually got that part. I mean that this is under the assumption that you know you're facing her and are building your crew around that.

The other option is that you don't know, and then you have to deal with it.

The first option would involve crew selection and utilization. The second can only really involve crew utilization.

[Hookers]

yeah if you happen to be using nicodem i would just throw flesh constructs at her to slow her down and not let her get to nicodem. maybe even belles to be able to get him out of trouble

the hanged still definitely apply though.

[Hatchethead]

Haha. Thanks I actually got that part. I mean that this is under the assumption that you know you're facing her and are building your crew around that.

Well, at this point I'm the only player with multiple crews to my name. Everyone in my group is running a single Master, if I come up against this particular player Lady J is a guarantee.

Granted, that won't always be the case, but at the moment I'm a dedicated Rez player. I might dabble with Leveticus at some point and definitely the new Book 2 Rez Master, either way my bringing undead to the table is a safe bet. Even if he does expand his collection to include other Masters, I'd likely err on the side of caution and assume Lady J more often than not. She's the natural born counter to my entire collection, after all.

Thanks for the tips and suggestions! McMourning it is. My Hanged will definitely be making an appearance, I'll also toy with Bete and Sybelle. Convict Gunslinger seems like a no-brainer. I wonder how Killjoy would fair? Far too expensive in a Scrap list alongside Bete, but another interesting possibility.

[Brochilles]

If you're gonna take Killjoy, a good tactic to get him in quick is to take a necropunk(3ss), run him up as far and as fast as possible (with arachnid and their 0 action leap spell, this can be pretty far) and then wait for the other crew to gank him. Necropunks have slow to die, so use that 1 action to sacrifice him and bring in killjoy.

Also, i've veen giving this a little more thought, since I run McMourning and Lady J, and some things have come to mind. First, if McMourning goes toe to toe with Lady J, use Wrack if you can. Only does 2 wounds, but it prevent 0 actions, so this will prevent Lady J from using Sword Style, which is one of the spells she truly uses to shine, also, nets you a body part from 12 inches away.

Next, if you can, use your larger models (Flesh Construct, Killjoy) to break line of sight between Lady J and other models, and this will help to disrupt her Inspiring Swordplay (+2 Cb to friendly models within LoS and 10" when she kills a model in meelee)

[Hatchethead]

Thanks for that. While Canine Remains are often the better choice point for point, Necropunks do seem to be the ideal Killjoy delivery system ... any excuse to get them on the table. I really like the models.

Wracked with Pain has so many uses. I only wish it were a Df resist instead of Wp. Immune to Influence is a buzz kill.

Good idea, using models to disrupt LoS. Isn't the Flesh Construct Ht 2? That means he'll only block LoS to Ht 1, I think. Killjoy is Ht 3 though, a damn fine meat wall.

[Aldyhide]

I myself haven't played much against the Lady J, so all I can say is; don't run Nicodem against her. Ever.

[ProdigalPunk]

I myself haven't played much against the Lady J, so all I can say is; don't run Nicodem against her. Ever.

I rarely use mindless hordes with Nico, so as long as I can have a dog or a vulture scoop up a counter to use reanimater on I would not be too worried. I would be at a disadvantage but not crippled

[Aldyhide]

I rarely use mindless hordes with Nico, so as long as I can have a dog or a vulture scoop up a counter to use reanimater on I would not be too worried. I would be at a disadvantage but not crippled

Ah, right. I was just going by the card description and didn't notice re-animator. She'd still wreck in melee though. So, as long as you don't let her blind rush you you'd be fine.

[dreadpiratelynx]

Good idea, using models to disrupt LoS. Isn't the Flesh Construct Ht 2? That means he'll only block LoS to Ht 1, I think. Killjoy is Ht 3 though, a damn fine meat wall.

Ht 2 models block LoS to other Ht 2 models unless a Ht 3 model is involved

[Hatchethead]

Hmm. Prior to my first game, I had a few questions regarding LoS. I ended up PM'ing Sketch and this was part of his reply:

Models do block LoS depending upon their Ht.

A Ht 3 model will block LoS to a Ht 2 and a Ht 1 model.

Ht 2 will block LoS to a Ht 1 model.

Models don't provide cover anymore.

Funny. That's the second time today I've quoted a PM from Weird Sketch.

[dreadpiratelynx]

So model Ht works differently than terrain Ht when determining LoS? That seems a bit odd...

[Hatchethead]

So model Ht works differently than terrain Ht when determining LoS? That seems a bit odd...

You're right. It does seem odd, now that you mention it.

[norrell]

well after reading this thread and finishing the two crews (my wife really wanted to paint and play the nurses and this being the first game she actually didnt make fun of me for and wanted to play i had to indulge her.) We played out several games with just the box crews.... result is Lady J 3-0.

Now we too are searching for ways that MM can win. The lady J crew is just alittle to balanced for the morgue crew. If my wife "slow plays" the marshals shoot her up fairly well, if she trys hand to hand the beatstick that is Lady J runs strait through her.

We have now purchased the whole resser line and will be attempting a lady killer list. I will keep you all posted

[Hatchethead]

The McM box is a tad gimp. Two Nurses. No Canine Remains. No Belles for Lure. Only one Construct (which you'll summon and otherwise shouldn't pay Soulstones for, in the first place). Putting it up against the Lady J box in a 25ss-ish Scrap, the 0-3 result is almost a foregone conclusion. I hope your wife isn't too discouraged by the losing streak.

I'm waiting on my Crooked Men and a blister of Necropunks, after which I've have the entire Resurrectionist line as well. Concocting a go-to Lady Killer list is my first priority.

Edited May 21, 2010 by Hatchethead
typoooo

[ProdigalPunk]

well after reading this thread and finishing the two crews (my wife really wanted to paint and play the nurses and this being the first game she actually didnt make fun of me for and wanted to play i had to indulge her.) We played out several games with just the box crews.... result is Lady J 3-0.

Now we too are searching for ways that MM can win. The lady J crew is just alittle to balanced for the morgue crew. If my wife "slow plays" the marshals shoot her up fairly well, if she trys hand to hand the beatstick that is Lady J runs strait through her.

We have now purchased the whole resser line and will be attempting a lady killer list. I will keep you all posted

That is a little ironic since McM's crew has so little undead in it to begin with. All in all two nurses is sort of a waste of points. I would drop the one nurse and the golem and add some dogs and a punk zombie.

[norrell]

agreed that the MM box is weak alone...she picked it based on model look and fluff( which is okay since she is interested.) And now she is trying to find a way to make them competitive.

As soon as the dogs get here they are the first things she will be painting up i think. After that we are gonna work up some more flesh constucts for the summoning thing. I whole heartedly agree that the constructs shouldnt be paid for but rather created. From my understanding of what i have read this crew can actually cause alot of melee problems if played right...the only thing i think she will strugle with once all the models get in, is the ranged attacks.

[Korcheski]

I myself haven't played much against the Lady J, so all I can say is; don't run Nicodem against her. Ever.

Doesn't this seem extremely wrong to anyone? Fluff-wise it is fun, but where is the fairness in one crew specifically being able to dismantle another with ease.

Granted I am not up on tournament rules, but if I had been playing one and it turned out that all i needed for first place was one more victory, and as it turns out my opponent was Justice against my Nicodem...I would be beyond pissed. No matter how well i played, i was at a major disadvantage before the game even began.

[chaosobscuros]

Doesn't this seem extremely wrong to anyone? Fluff-wise it is fun, but where is the fairness in one crew specifically being able to dismantle another with ease.

Granted I am not up on tournament rules, but if I had been playing one and it turned out that all i needed for first place was one more victory, and as it turns out my opponent was Justice against my Nicodem...I would be beyond pissed. No matter how well i played, i was at a major disadvantage before the game even began.

I agree wholeheartedly with ProdigalPunk's rebuttal concerning Lady J vs Nico. A disadvantage is not an auto-lose. Liberal use of Canine Remains and Vultures as a rapid delivery system helps to keep corpse counters safe.

You know that Lady J is going to be coming at you fast and hard. Set up an ambush for her. Utilize Canine Remains packs to swarm her and reduce her Df by 2. Add in a couple of bolstered Punk Zombies, and you put her in a world of hurt.

[Hookers]

Doesn't this seem extremely wrong to anyone? Fluff-wise it is fun, but where is the fairness in one crew specifically being able to dismantle another with ease.

Granted I am not up on tournament rules, but if I had been playing one and it turned out that all i needed for first place was one more victory, and as it turns out my opponent was Justice against my Nicodem...I would be beyond pissed. No matter how well i played, i was at a major disadvantage before the game even began.

it is by design. nicodem might be at a disadvantage but the Ressurectionists certainly aren't

as for mcmorning vs lady j, he should be able to hold his own. the puppies are definitely awesome, and like most people i would try to summon a flesh construct in game rather than start with one.

he has low df so save some soulstones to help with that, but he can heal himself so if she doesn't finish him off she is in bad shape. also: dissection. soulstone the cast and try your hardest to be able to cheat for severe, 10 wd instapop.

if your wife is the one playing mcm try switching sides. maybe you'll come up with strategies and things that she has not thought of and you could give her some advice.