Malifaux RPG a possibility?

[Sliver Chocobo]

Just wanted to put my 2 cents in.

I personally think that a proprietary system that runs like the miniatures game would be the best solution to making a Malifaux RPG as opposed to running it using any currently existing RPG system.

The main idea I had was how to run the "Fate" system, and the best solution I came up with was as follows.

Shuffle your entire deck and draw a fresh hand of 5-7 cards (Possibly stat dependent) at the start of the game session, at the start of every new 'Day' in the game, and at the start of any combat encounter.

Run through your deck as normal for duels, cheating fate when you need to.

If you need to refresh your hand during play (Especially during combat) the character must take a "(All) Refresh" action to discard as many cards from his hand as he likes and draws up to his hand limit.

Soulstone may be used to enhance starting totals as in Malifaux, but an additional 'Fate' stat would allow players to enhance a roll without discharging soul stones 1-3 times per game session. Think of it like a Soulstone Cache.

I'm just brainstorming here...partly because I've been trying to jury-rig a system to run Malifaux in for my friends, and because this thread exists.

I like it, but it need somthing a little more, like how strong your charator is, how intellgente he/she. basic skill challange stuff

[Zephir]

Im currently running a Malifaux RP, using the World of Darkness mechanics. It took a very small amount of adjusting, but the main book covers just about everything you need and the system is very easy. We are about 2 months in and so far the system hasn't given us any issues. That said I really do hope Wyrd makes their own RP system for Malifaux: RPG which may or may not ever come.

[Pseudokinetic]

the old rpg thread:

http://wyrd-games.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8145

i had a general unisystem version floating around somewhere. haven't actually given it a test drive though.

[Rorik36]

We ended up using a modified version of the "aspect points" from Spirit of the Century as Fate Points...

I have been wondering about picking up SotC but with your description it pushes it to the buy list at Gencon. Plus brings my Dresden Files higher up in my read pile. Seems like it could be a good system to run Malifaux with. My first choice is Savage Worlds but this might be worth a try.

[Gensuke626]

I like it, but it need somthing a little more, like how strong your charator is, how intellgente he/she. basic skill challange stuff

I figured the basic "rolling" mechanic should be developed before other statistics come into play.

I imagine you would have basic statistics and skills.

Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence, Willpower and the like.

I figure it would be fairly simple stats, with 2s being average similar to White-Wolf. Add Stat and Skill bonus to the fate flip.

But that's just off the top of my head.

[David.Hanold]

Lucky for Wyrd's community, I was a student of Dave Arneson, we were working on a way to re-image the play-style of traditional RPGs.

He is gone now, but I would really like to use this system we were working on. I was the mind behind it, he was my teacher while I was a student at Full Sail University. All he did was throw ideas out for use and give personal thoughts on my ideas and system.

I originally was going to make my system revolve around Warhammer Fantasy, then Warmachine, then Mutants and Masterminds (using heroclix with custom paints for figs)...but then I discovered Malifaux and one single thing convinced me to design my system fluff (characters, stats, and setting) using Malifaux.

Malifaux not only has a lot of characters with lore, but also it is designed around character driven battles. This was perfect.

Normally I keep things secret and hidden until I feel ready to release it, but RPGs take longer than board games to design.

Anyways here is my basic overview of a new style of RPing.

Instead of RPGs playing were the GM = Director and Players = Actors, I am redoing the way RPG’s are thought of. Replacing the old mechanics, make a GM = to Screenplay Artist and the Players = to the Script and Story Board Artists. I removed the need for a "Lvl up" mechanic, and removed the create your own character and replaced that idea with detailed pre made characters. Gone are the tons of hour spent on books. The entire system should fit into a single book. To draw more money in, at the end every month a box of new premades for use towards the story and also encounters for the GM to use for characters to fight and interact with will be released. Every 3 months a new threat will emerge and a bigger box set explaining the changes to the world will release.

A single desire for more games like Necromunda and Mordheim are what sparked this change.

Think of every member in the party playing a role that is interesting enough for players to want to take the role for different characters for both combat reasons and because they have an imaginative story telling element that adds to the overall group's story.

Before the start of a session each player takes a character they have a couple neat ideas for. After all players (cept the GM) has a character (pre made character), then the GM creates the basic overview of the story that he would like to tell. He begins with a background to the location and talks about major recent events that have taken place (as props and plotlines) for the players to make use of. Then each player looks over the background story on the character they have selected and describes how the character they have chosen got to the location and what their motives are.

Players will use the info they have for the character to roleplay interactions and investigate or buy equipment etc. In the end I have noticed, no matter what RPG a group is playing the sessions always end in combat. So, I have saved all the time of managing characters and flipping through pages for rules and spells, instead, replacing that down time with player interaction.

When I design a game concept, I always want it to change the way the genre I am working on is perceived. This is why I respect what arena net is doing with Guild Wars 2, and can’t stand to see Blizzard doing more of the same.

Anyways my goal for this new system, is to make an RPG that lacks exp and players having the ability to min/max or meta, however players will actually feel more free to evolve a character because they won't be as attached to a personal character. Also when they play a hardened vet for a character for example it will feel like one. On the same token I always felt DnD and other RPGs limited my background and character creation by saying "you get THESE three abilities to START with" ... yet I wanted to be an experienced general like Maximus which was not allowed, because I wouldn't be equal to the other beginning "farm boy" characters.

So the combat encounter would then play out like Mordhiem, Necromunda, or GorkaMorka. After battle players roll for special events, injury, and plot clues that can be used to grant bonuses to players stats.

Experience is based off of surviving or being successful in an encounter. You will gain a small bonus to a skill, when it is checked, if you have not already gained a bonus point for attempting something similar. Or in combat you will gain bonuses to avoiding enemy special attacks and also chance to crit them by defeating that certain enemy enough times.

The number one goal on my agenda is to make a system that works for any miniature setting. But I would really like to make the game in a Malifaux by Wyrd Games setting.

PM me for more details.

[Sliver Chocobo]

I relly don't like this, first of leveling system would be good to see. i like the players starting on Malifaux station and slowing geting more powerful as they master there abiltes

and premade charators just don't sound right in a RPG

[David.Hanold]

I understand the negativity the system gets, but I have demoed it with other IPs and players that are skeptical to the change totally love most of the changes by the end of one session.

You do level up. Just not in the same way as DnD. Instead of XP your stat increases, skills, and combat perks are gained through encounters. It makes no sense that taking on 5 goblin encounters in DnD suddenly gains you new movesets and skill points to spend. Yet at the same time ... you gain no bonus to fighting goblins specifically in the future.

When I explain this as my reason for removing XP then players click and realize why Dave and I wanted to make the switch.

For the Pre made Characters as opposed to make your own. Making your own character still feels limited. For example if I wanted to create Victoria in a d20-ish system she would need to be played from lvl 1. Almost all systems say they give you full control over creation, but in actuality they say "create anything you want, but...it can't be an experienced mage, or wartorn vet, or a famed gladiator...make sure it is a weak lvl 1 that can only take on goblins and kolbolds". So in the typical manner players wouldn't start of in Malifaux, because Malifaux would be a lvl 10+ requirement.

Now go back and read the fluff. When each character is arriving in Malifaux, doesn't that technically begin their journey? With Premades you could make a character a newbie to Malifaux and another a mine worker. The roleplaying opportunity is still present. You can play the newbie to the world of Maifaux with balanced stats, and be just as useful to the cast as a worn down and dreary miner character another player plays.

Premades get rid of the attachment feeling. Instead of having to worry about a player not showing and having to put game on hold or have GM play their character, now the players that do show up can play with the character without upsetting the creator.

For combat you just break out a game of Malifaux with each player controlling the character they chose for the session and the GM controls the challengers.

Placing on the stats and abilities onto one card also will cut down on book referencing which cuts into the play time and pauses the focus and immersion that can also lead to off topic discussion.

I also never really liked the idea of somehow always running into the same level zombies as the party...talk about bad luck...and how do zombies increase stats and skills in the first place...???

I can totally understand strange looks. I am also prepared for the flames. Taking a stereotype of RPing and flipping it on its head is bound to get laughs and skeptics.

I also thought I was insane when I thought of using premade characters, but then I drafted a list of pros and cons. I suggest others do the same, the pros list won't stop, yet the cons stops after a few valid reasons.

Just try to imagine a system where you spend more time thinking of encounters and building a story as a group rather than focusing on personal desire for the character. Also less time in the books and more time actively discussing and playing with prime focus on the session.

Just think about it, that is all I am asking...

Edited August 9, 2010 by David.Hanold

[HPSoundwave]

Curator....you are far too merciful my friend. My PCs many times have to fight in fights that are above them sometimes below them. It isn't a challenge unless you bleed for it. The other thing is you seem to use a combat is the only way to get xp, what about skillchecks, solving riddles and whatnot. I mean a pure hackslash game I get where you are coming from why would you get skill points. But dungeon crawls arn't just sidescrollers of hackslash, they involve climbing, spotting, hiding, moving silently, ambushing, planning even knowledge checks which is what raises skill level.

as for playing viktoria....why would you want to play in an RPG a preset character. Almost every RPG starts you off as a scrub fora reason. However a GM at the beginning of the game can say hey everyone level 6 starting characters. All role playing books are merely guidelines.

[alemon]

I like the reasoning behind the removal of XP and leveling up, but how exactly are you planning to represent character growth?

As for the Premade characters...That, to me, defeats the purpose of this genre. The game's always been about creating a character and playing him; I don't see anything wrong with getting attached.

"Premades get rid of the attachment feeling. Instead of having to worry about a player not showing and having to put game on hold or have GM play their character, now the players that do show up can play with the character without upsetting the creator."

This seems to be a fault with the player group, not the RPG rules themselves. I also don't agree with this statement:

"but in actuality they say "create anything you want, but...it can't be an experienced mage, or wartorn vet, or a famed gladiator...make sure it is a weak lvl 1 that can only take on goblins and kolbolds" statement.

What's stopping you from making an experience mage or wartorn vet or anything else in an RPG other than the thematic restrictions? Character's don't have to begin at level one--as you mentioned yourself, the main characters in the malifaux storyline are already above even those with above-average magical ability.

I'd like to see a character creation system (because I want to play a unique character in the malifaux setting, not an existing character or a premade that others use. That's part of the fun) that looks somewhat like the stat cards. Then, the malifaux game could still be used to simulate a combat encounter.

I'm curious as to what the Pro/Con list looks like, mind posting it up?

[macgowan]

Malifaux already has characterful strategies and schemes, and "pre-fab" characters. I don't see what your idea brings to the table that Wyrd doesn't already do. Sounds like you're trying to make a game that's really more like 5 DM's sitting around planning an adventure. The whole point of ROLE playing is taking on the persona of a character. You take that away, well, call it what you want, but it's not an RPG. Neither were Mordheim & Necromunda.

[ChaosLenny]

Yeah I hate to be a critic but I can't see having an RPG where you don't make your own character. That's the core of an RPG. Especially if your going for a deep immersion game where everybody is trying to bring a character to life. I don't think that mind set of people are going to go for pre-made PCs.

Though it may not be the most 'real' approach to gaining experience leveling works well really. Another aspect of RPGs is character progression people like to see characters improve, get plus one whatevers as well as save the kingdom.

I think it's people rather than system that provide really deep immersion. You can't force it with rules. A few friends of mine played old first edition d&d for fun..the simple keep on the borderlands module. First level fighters, mages, etc with a simple story...but we've all been playing together for years and it was very colorful and fun. The system is just a basic frame work for the imagination it doesn't have to be perfect. Gary Gygax was a wise man:)

Now I do like your idea of modules more for a skirmished based game though. I'd love to see a pack that give like a set of schemes, objectives laid out in a mini-campaign. With a few models and maybe terrain pieces. I think that would work.

I get where you're going, but I think a lot of what you're taking time to force with rules and skill leveling can be accomplished with a group of good friends who like to tell great stories together:)

Again, though I think having model based narrative modules or sets to accompany a skirmish game is a pretty nifty idea.

[Svenn]

I have to echo what everyone else is saying here... Creating your own character and bringing them to life is a huge part of what makes RPGs so great.

And as ChaosLenny said... while the typical experience/leveling system isn't perfectly true to life, character progression is incredibly important. It's a huge part of games in general for me.

[Gensuke626]

I understand the negativity the system gets, but I have demoed it with other IPs and players that are skeptical to the change totally love most of the changes by the end of one session.

I'm going to be honest...as Macgowan has said, your system basically sounds like Malifaux as it is currently written.

You do level up. Just not in the same way as DnD. Instead of XP your stat increases, skills, and combat perks are gained through encounters. It makes no sense that taking on 5 goblin encounters in DnD suddenly gains you new movesets and skill points to spend. Yet at the same time ... you gain no bonus to fighting goblins specifically in the future.

it sounds to me like you have little experience with the RPG world beyond the D20 system. A class based RPG system is pretty much a D20 only thing and very few systems beyond D20 have "Level Ups" like you're describing.

White-Wolf Game Studios in particular is famous for not using classes for the most part and setting up mechanics for increasing individual stats to allow characters to grow in more organic ways than the D20 system allows.

When I explain this as my reason for removing XP then players click and realize why Dave and I wanted to make the switch.

so you're replacing the time honored EXP mechanic with a slightly arbitrary "Encounter Experience" system? You mention that you have a problem with players not getting goblin specific bonuses if they fight goblins. I have a problem if I would only get goblin specific perks. What if I was a gunslinger and I wanted to improve my quickdraw ability, or my ability to hit moving targets? I could conceivably get practice doing that against goblins.

For the Pre made Characters as opposed to make your own. Making your own character still feels limited. For example if I wanted to create Victoria in a d20-ish system she would need to be played from lvl 1. Almost all systems say they give you full control over creation, but in actuality they say "create anything you want, but...it can't be an experienced mage, or wartorn vet, or a famed gladiator...make sure it is a weak lvl 1 that can only take on goblins and kolbolds". So in the typical manner players wouldn't start of in Malifaux, because Malifaux would be a lvl 10+ requirement.

Again, others have addressed this point and I would like to say that you are stuck in a very strong Anti-D20 loop. It really depends on what kind of system you want to run to give you proper characters.

For example, yes in D&D a lvl 1 scrub is going to have problems killing orcs and goblins. But you don't need to start at lvl 1.

A second example, let's use White-Wolf's Exalted. A "starting level" character can cleave an enemy soldier in twain, block an unblockable attack, and magically summon a 100 yard long line of obsidian butterflies to tear his enemy to shreds in a single turn of combat and not break a sweat. Victoria's got nothing on that.

Now go back and read the fluff. When each character is arriving in Malifaux, doesn't that technically begin their journey? With Premades you could make a character a newbie to Malifaux and another a mine worker. The roleplaying opportunity is still present. You can play the newbie to the world of Maifaux with balanced stats, and be just as useful to the cast as a worn down and dreary miner character another player plays.

Wait...So not only are you dictating what our stats are, but also our personalities? That's what that sounds like to me, and frankly I think that's daft.

Premades get rid of the attachment feeling. Instead of having to worry about a player not showing and having to put game on hold or have GM play their character, now the players that do show up can play with the character without upsetting the creator.

You don't want us to get attached to our Characters? That's quite possibly the most idiotic thing I've ever heard since I started playing RPGS. Attachment is what allows us to bond with characters. It allows us to escape reality, and it helps us to live vicariously in the world we play in, enabling catharsis and helping use care about the world. A feeling of emotional attachment is what makes the concept of a protagonist work in any story-telling medium.

For combat you just break out a game of Malifaux with each player controlling the character they chose for the session and the GM controls the challengers.

Not revolutionary, but practical.

Placing on the stats and abilities onto one card also will cut down on book referencing which cuts into the play time and pauses the focus and immersion that can also lead to off topic discussion.

I personally think you lost immersion when you told us to not get personally attached to characters. I don't think that Stat cards would cut down on much of anything. Well built Character sheets cut down on book referencing, but experienced players go to the rule book when a rule dispute emerges, which is not something that a character card would help with any.

I also never really liked the idea of somehow always running into the same level zombies as the party...talk about bad luck...and how do zombies increase stats and skills in the first place...???

again, a D20 stereotype. And a bad one IMHO. Most people who I see running zombies, don't run them equal level to the party, they just throw more of them at the party as the party gets stronger.

also zombies can be enhanced via necromantic ritual and scientific augmentation. Even within the context of Malifaux, look at the difference between a Rotten Belle and a Mindless Zombie.

I can totally understand strange looks. I am also prepared for the flames. Taking a stereotype of RPing and flipping it on its head is bound to get laughs and skeptics.

The thing is, you're not flipping it on it's head. You're taking D20 and you're trying to make a miniatures game out of it. Most of the things you want from your "RPG" system has been covered in other previously made systems, but they don't go out of their way to alienate the players from their characters like your seems like it does.

I also thought I was insane when I thought of using premade characters, but then I drafted a list of pros and cons. I suggest others do the same, the pros list won't stop, yet the cons stops after a few valid reasons.

The cons outweigh the pros in the quick list I just made in my head, the two biggest cons being 'Limits player creativity' and 'Limits player contribution to the setting' I suppose if I gave equal weight to all responses then the pros would outweigh the cons, but you simply can't give equal weight to every response. 'Discourages Min-Maxing' does not even come close to being as important as 'Limits player creativity' in my eyes.

Just try to imagine a system where you spend more time thinking of encounters and building a story as a group rather than focusing on personal desire for the character. Also less time in the books and more time actively discussing and playing with prime focus on the session.

I don't like that system. I honestly think it's stupid. Player desire should be what Drives the plot. Lack of player desire means that the characters are plodding through the story because the story is there. It's like they're a train on rails and they move because the conductor says they need to.

The best experiences I have ever had in my years of playing and running RPGs have all been because of player and character desire. Many of the best games I've participated in have collapsed before they got to the conclusion of a story line, because the journey has always been more important than the over-arcing plot.

Just think about it, that is all I am asking...

I did. See above.

I'd like to go on record and say that I may have misinterpreted your intent with this proposed system of yours. If that is the case I welcome you to return and attempt to explain yourself in a much clearer fashion. If not, then all of my above comments stand, subtle and overt insults and all.

Edit- I realize after reading this again a couple of times that I may come across as harsh in many places. The intent of this post is not to insult, but to challenge the assertions made by Curator. If any feel insulted, I apologize ahead of time, but I still stand by my statements as they are honest to my thoughts and feelings.

Edited August 12, 2010 by Gensuke626
Additional thoughts

[HPSoundwave]

Gensuke I like the cut of your jib on this.

I mean I feel his system is moreor less a system to stat outa D&D movie almost. I think exclusive playing of D20 is really the basis. I mean as you have said I have played standard whitewolf, exalted, deadlands non d20, Mutants and Masterminds, tri stat, shadowrun. All of those systems are different from d20.

Earlier I suggested deadlands asa place to start. Since it has rules that involve playing cards, It has similar monsters and things and though not exact a similar setting style. But for some reason everyone thought that was too simple and began suggesting other shite.

[Gensuke626]

Gensuke I like the cut of your jib on this.

I mean I feel his system is moreor less a system to stat outa D&D movie almost. I think exclusive playing of D20 is really the basis. I mean as you have said I have played standard whitewolf, exalted, deadlands non d20, Mutants and Masterminds, tri stat, shadowrun. All of those systems are different from d20.

Earlier I suggested deadlands asa place to start. Since it has rules that involve playing cards, It has similar monsters and things and though not exact a similar setting style. But for some reason everyone thought that was too simple and began suggesting other shite.

Honestly, I think deadlands and the savage world system (Original Deadlands more than Savage World) would be a great starting point for a Malifaux RPG.

However I think that the miniature game as written is a better starting point. The system itself may only need a few tweaks to get it where you want it to be for an RPG and one would simply need to build an EXP mechanic and a character generation mechanic to accompany the system itself.

Deadlands has the advantage that all of that is taken care of for you, but I feel like a Malifaux proprietary system where everything is run on cards would work best. Earlier I described a slightly altered version of Malifaux's current fate system to account for it being a more RPG style game. One would need to figure out a character generation technique for said system as well as an exp mechanic and I think it would be good to go.

I'm all for stealing things right out of Hero/White-Wolf/AEG games to make the character system work.

Mind you, I don't want to come across as dismissing Deadlands, I love that system...but something about a game that runs purely on Cards is so very appealing to me...

[HPSoundwave]

I think the best place to start a statline build is to look at all the basic human models. Guiuld Guards, Austringers, Governor's proxy, The Ortegas, Sameal Hopkins, Nurses, Mortimer, Sebastian, and all the other Unique minion humans and the regular minion humans and see where the statlines are similar and such and build from there to make the potential for a player to make a character who is an average human or above average in one aspect but below avaerage in another. And set them up to eventually become masters and minions to each other.

[Gensuke626]

I think the best place to start a statline build is to look at all the basic human models. Guiuld Guards, Austringers, Governor's proxy, The Ortegas, Sameal Hopkins, Nurses, Mortimer, Sebastian, and all the other Unique minion humans and the regular minion humans and see where the statlines are similar and such and build from there to make the potential for a player to make a character who is an average human or above average in one aspect but below avaerage in another. And set them up to eventually become masters and minions to each other.

Probably true...I'll see if I can whip something up when I have time.

[David.Hanold]

Skip to highlighted area for skill usage preview.

The system is very hard to explain without a board and examples to show. But I shall do my best without giving it away, as even though it gets a lot of criticism, I don't feel comfortable displaying it in full until it is finished.

First you mentioned I have little xp in RPGs. Don't "know" what you only "assume". In other words It is unkind to state assumptions as fact when speaking about a person.

I helped design for a RPG company when I was younger called Talsorian. They made anime RPGs using the Hero system. That was a long time ago and I was just legal to have a paying job.

As I grew older artist and devs from companies like Blizzard Entertainment happened to fall into my list of contacts. With Blizzard I helped work with White Wolf on the WoW RPG. While with WW I picked up Exalted 1st ed (I currently own all 2nd edition). I am very aware of the storytelling system.

I played Champions the RPG but grew bored and moved on to Mutants and Masterminds.

To top this all off one of my mentors in gaming was Dave Arneson and I also met and played Battlelore with Richard Borg. I design variants and have written articles for Fantasy Flight Games.

Oh and I forgot to add that I gamed with Gygax a few times.

I am sure I am missing a few other important ones but oh well (I feel like an actor having to thank everyone lol).

OH I forgot GRIMM my favorite RPG and I am not just saying that because it is a FFG product.

bah drabbled on for too long. Here I give it a shot.

When you purchase a pack of the premade characters these character will not be characters only I thought up. Many will be fan ideas. I always believe that a designer should always try to involve the fans in the project as much as possible. They may not get paid for helping but at least they get a finished product with their character idea listing them as the credit.

I never want to make a Warrior, mage, rogue, and healer characters as my pre-mades. To me they seem again limited. Instead I like to have pre-made characters that require thinking outside of the box. A great example, out of the many Malifaux has already provided, is The Dreamer.

A kid that envisions the world as a game like Boo from Monster's Inc. What could a dreamer-like character bring both to combat and outside of combat?

When I was proposing this idea for a Warhammer Fantasy version I used a Shadow Wizard as my example rather than the typical nuke em" Bright Wizard. Other characters were a Saraus Temple Guard (warrior I know) but being a lizardman in human lands opens up for a player to create some imaginative story and background with.

Each player CAN become attached to a particular character if they like. Nothing is stopping them. In fact I could see this happening more times than not. However my main reasoning behind pre-mades is because not every gamer can dream like Tolkien or CS Lewis or JK Rowling, so some players that struggle with imagination can now look at the back of the character sheet and read the characters likes and dislikes the places they have visited and friends they have made. At the same time they can see their fears and enemies. They can see the main goal the character is trying to achieve. I think many vet roleplayers forget that just like not everyone can draw, not everyone has a wild imagination.

Some players may feel upset with the concept they have come up with when they sit down and find out other players have cooler back stories. At this point they may ask the other roleplayers to help them with making a more exciting back story. Instead of making players feel like they lack an imagination when comparing back stories, now each player can feel comfortable using the basic back story of the pre-made.

Players will have a plethora of characters to choose from and more will become available each month.

Somewhere I lost you guys in thinking I want just hack n slash. That is completely not true, however it is in my gaming experience with observing multiple RPG systems that the combat is usually the climax of the session.

One of the reason that Grimm is my favorite RPG is because you play as kids in a world of nightmares and monsters. Hack n slash doesn't cut it in Grimm. Teamwork does though.

For the system you would still take skill checks and still have puzzles. But do you really need anything other than a pencil and paper to do puzzles. I don't understand why my system wouldn't have puzzles.

If you mean for skills like search listen or spot ... then no I don't see need for those as separate checks and would combine them into one stat number. As a GM I would come up with a situation that encourages players to use their spells and actual skills. Using the Shadow Wizard example, I would design a situation where part of solving it would require shadow manipulation and then using the Saurus Temple Guard's love for combat I would give him enemies to trying to stop from getting to the Wizard.

To me how well you listen is more based on a Listen stat and not a roll. My listen skill in RL is not increasing or decreasing. Instead there are uncontrollable factors that may catch my attention. To represent this in game you would have an Attention stat. Perks that help separate the characters will add bonuses to this stat for specific situations (call them triggers I guess). Rather than the player controlling fate though, the GM will. The chance of something happening at that point in time is up to fate. The stat will determine how loud something needs to be in order for the character to hear it. The GM flips. If his card value is equal to or lower than the Attention stat then the character has heard something IF something happened (see below).

Try to stick with me now because this is where the idea of controlling fate factors into the rpg. Before the check is made the GM takes into account the situations of the current scenario. Based on the factors that could play a role in something happening, they tell the player to draw 1-4 cards. The players use those cards to play one of each suit any duplicate suits are kept for later (but I wont get into this yet). If when the GM flips his card it matches one of the suits the player played then something has happened. If the card that was flipped is equal to or lower than the character's attention stat, then the character heard the event that caught their ear. Jokers have special rules....

But I think that is all for now. I can continue if you would like? Or you can still assume I have little RPG experience...

My overall plan for pre mades was the community interaction. I would like to have a forum for players to post how they have evolved each character, much in the same way as players do when they show off the paint scheme they used for a particular figure that shares the same sculpt and background.

Edited August 13, 2010 by David.Hanold

[Sliver Chocobo]

But I think that is all for now. I can continue if you would like? Or you can still assume I have little RPG experience...

My overall plan for pre mades was the community interaction. I would like to have a forum for players to post how they have evolved each character, much in the same way as players do when they show off the paint scheme they used for a particular figure that shares the same sculpt and background.

NO, you missing the point, my RPG experance is VERY limited, and i will admit it barely wanders out of D&D (though not by choice)

I want to be able to make my charator, i want him to be unique and to see me start weak and watch him grow and become more powerful as he adapts to the world around him, premade charators are ruining your plan. I don't to use your chartors i want to use my, if had premade and a way to make your own chartors i'll change my mind but you haven't

[David.Hanold]

NO, you missing the point, my RPG experance is VERY limited, and i will admit it barely wanders out of D&D (though not by choice)

I want to be able to make my charator, i want him to be unique and to see me start weak and watch him grow and become more powerful as he adapts to the world around him, premade charators are ruining your plan. I don't to use your chartors i want to use my, if had premade and a way to make your own chartors i'll change my mind but you haven't

You have little experience in roleplaying and want to make your own character. I was talking to the next best person I could today about this, since sadly Mr. Arneson is no longer with us. He explained how change must be gradual. One can't simply force change..."you have to start at a middle ground".

Very well then. I will try to design a character creation system that allows you to create an inexperienced newcomer to the world of Malifaux and at the same time have you be balanced to players among your group of friends that may make an experienced explorer in Malifaux.

You sir/madam just gave me a challenge...I don't even think Monte Cook has been able to figure out how this can be done.

But please understand when I figure this out I want players posting their characters for other players to use. I want to create the first community based RPG that isn't PBeM or story posts found in web based RPGs.

Edited August 14, 2010 by David.Hanold

[HPSoundwave]

You have little experience in roleplaying and want to make your own character. I was talking to the next best person I could today about this, since sadly Mr. Arneson is no longer with us. He explained how change must be gradual. One can't simply force change..."you have to start at a middle ground".

Very well then. I will try to design a character creation system that allows you to create an inexperienced newcomer to the world of Malifaux and at the same time have you be balanced to players among your group of friends that may make an experienced explorer in Malifaux.

You sir/madam just gave me a challenge...I don't even think Monte Cook has been able to figure out how this can be done.

But please understand when I figure this out I want players posting their characters for other players to use. I want to create the first community based RPG that isn't PBeM or story posts found in web based RPGs.

Don't mock an inexperienced roleplayer, you were there once yourself buddy. Plus your arguement has serious flaws. Almost no one in Malifaux is just experienced in Malifaux. Leveticus did not spend his boyhood hobbling and losing wounds on the streets of Malifaux, neither did Alyce, Viktoria, Seamus, orany of the other characters we know and love, they had some experience on earth so making a character thats new and on the same level of an experienced malifauxian is possible. Character X was a little late to the train ride over...it happens.

Make sure character X doesn't have any gremlin hunting, neverborn killing xp and lacks the intimate knowledge of people like Ramos, Perdita, Lilith, Leveticus and McMourning. Thats all thats needed in that situation. Which honestly with all your RP experience didn't you think that would kinda be an obvious solution?

and Curator....all the name drop....seriously? I mean I just want to state that to me it just seems sorta geek pretentious. I mean not to knock you down a peg but I honestly couldn't really care that you gamed with Gygax and Arenson. I mean do not get me wrong thats cool and all but I am pretty sure there are game designers out there who havn't and have come up with some pretty great stuff so it doesn't really make you any more credible or important then anyone else.

[Teal]

I simply don't understand why you can't have pre-made characters and a character generation system in the same ruleset. I see no problem with including pre-gen characters, heck, I love it when a system's rulebook comes with a bucnh of pre-gens, because, like you said, some people aren't the most imaginative type (and I'm not trying to bash on anyone here, just stating a fact) and could benefit from having cool, and well thought of characters at their disposal.

What is ludicrous is to deny the people who want to make their own characters the possibility to do so. There is absolutely no explanation that I've heard so far that can justify not having the option of customizing the part of the game that is most integral to the players, their characters. I for one would refuse flat out to play a game that denied me the experience of creating my own, personal character and watching them grow over the course of the campaign.

Also, as an experienced GM I can safely say that the one thing that kills a game the fastest is if players are not attached to their characters, for whatever reason. And most times that I've seen them get really attached, and had some great games, was when they designed a really unique and interesting character themselves. So please, I'd love to hear your justification for denying players the chance to be creative, as I can't at all find one myself.

[David.Hanold]

Don't mock an inexperienced roleplayer, you were there once yourself buddy. Plus your arguement has serious flaws. Almost no one in Malifaux is just experienced in Malifaux. Leveticus did not spend his boyhood hobbling and losing wounds on the streets of Malifaux, neither did Alyce, Viktoria, Seamus, orany of the other characters we know and love, they had some experience on earth so making a character thats new and on the same level of an experienced malifauxian is possible. Character X was a little late to the train ride over...it happens.

Make sure character X doesn't have any gremlin hunting, neverborn killing xp and lacks the intimate knowledge of people like Ramos, Perdita, Lilith, Leveticus and McMourning. Thats all thats needed in that situation. Which honestly with all your RP experience didn't you think that would kinda be an obvious solution?

and Curator....all the name drop....seriously? I mean I just want to state that to me it just seems sorta geek pretentious. I mean not to knock you down a peg but I honestly couldn't really care that you gamed with Gygax and Arenson. I mean do not get me wrong thats cool and all but I am pretty sure there are game designers out there who havn't and have come up with some pretty great stuff so it doesn't really make you any more credible or important then anyone else.

Yikes I can see how it come across that I am claiming a new player like Silver is not allowed to have a voice. That opening sentence was actually intended to just help remind me what the person above said.

I don't sit down and hack out an entire message all at once. I like to talk to people and then think about what to type before I return. I leave summed up sentence of what the point of last person was making. Sorry for confusion.

Anyways I am not limiting to just pre-mades anymore. It is obvious what seems great to me (mainly because I have the entire plan in my head) doesn't sit well with others.

I will use Lord of the Rings for my example. In Lord of the Rings the Fellowship has different degrees of experience. Boromir is an amazing fighter, Gandalf has traveled the wold and is a powerful wizard, Gimli and Legolas know their terrain specialties in and out.

However if players were to try to recreate this party accurately then Gandalf would be over powered when compared to the other members.

So the Challange is how to make a person that has explored and seen most of Malifaux equal to a player that wants to make a new comer to the world.

Good News is that I think I found an answer. If you keep and core stats broad then you can let the players spend points on various perk and talents.

Core Values:

Movement - Slow, Average, Fast, Very fast.

Combat - a value that represents the overall experience the character has with combat.

Defense - based on many factors and used for just as many, this stat is for dodging projectiles from traps and withstanding rounds of combat.

Attention - The ability to noticed the out of place or notice a distraction to the mind.

Health -

Willpower -

Sorry, I am getting tired I will elaborate more tomorrow. Bed time for now.

[David.Hanold]

I simply don't understand why you can't have pre-made characters and a character generation system in the same ruleset. I see no problem with including pre-gen characters, heck, I love it when a system's rulebook comes with a bucnh of pre-gens, because, like you said, some people aren't the most imaginative type (and I'm not trying to bash on anyone here, just stating a fact) and could benefit from having cool, and well thought of characters at their disposal.

What is ludicrous is to deny the people who want to make their own characters the possibility to do so. There is absolutely no explanation that I've heard so far that can justify not having the option of customizing the part of the game that is most integral to the players, their characters. I for one would refuse flat out to play a game that denied me the experience of creating my own, personal character and watching them grow over the course of the campaign.

Also, as an experienced GM I can safely say that the one thing that kills a game the fastest is if players are not attached to their characters, for whatever reason. And most times that I've seen them get really attached, and had some great games, was when they designed a really unique and interesting character themselves. So please, I'd love to hear your justification for denying players the chance to be creative, as I can't at all find one myself.

In short, creativity is like art. Not everyone is great with it. Second min/maxers and players that make designing challenges for the party end up being the GM vs the player's character.

Doesn't matter anymore though because I am challenging myself to create a system for character creation that keeps it simple for new players and older players alike. I surrender in other words.

Public is not ready for pre-mades I guess. To explain myself more clearly. The core reason I thought of pr-mades was when I noticed that some of my friends dream with less detail than I do, some players will want to sit down with me to help direct them through creation process because one of the other players turned in pages worth of background.

I was hoping the community saw pre-made characters and then shared the ideas they had for the character for the community to compare to. Kind of like how players will paint the same figure and post the vision they had for the sculpt.

The pre-mades were not going to have a ton of detail and background history. Instead they would say things like "Favorite color: Red" and it is up to the player to think about why that character's favorite color is red. Obviously 'favorite color' is just an example and has little meaning to a RPG session.

Edited August 14, 2010 by David.Hanold