Gremlin Tactics for the New and the Frustrated

[n0signal]

Heh. Dang, I thought I'd missed something beautiful there... damn you Nick, you got me all excited!! :684: On another note, remember that the Hog Whisperer has Baconnnn! too, which you can use on a damaged Piglet to bring on a Gremlin; which is helpful if you've not got the cards for Git Yer Bro.

Get that Gremlin back near Jones and he can stove it's head in for a new healthy Piglet or get it near a 'Skeeter for Larvae... either way try and make sure that it dies within 6" of Jones or the Whisperer so that you get some cards, perhaps drawing an 11+ that you need to Git Yer Bro too. I personally never have more than about three Gremlins on the board as I'm always killing them for other stuff. LOL.

Edited January 27, 2010 by n0signal

[Nick]

Damnit! Mist that tiny little 'Bayou' word in the spell description.. Have to read better next time.. x]

[Tyrant]

It seems that a few well thought out "General Gremlin" tactics have been posted up, so I'm not going to type one up myself. Instead I'll place the first "How to beat a specific master" up.

HOW TO BEAT RAMOS WITH GREMLINS

- Crew selection.

Although figuring out a specific list that works for you would be ideal, the general way to bust Ramos' bubble is with piglets; I suggest taking piglets as a large group (About a third of your overall stones) with a whisperer. Take one warpig (or two, in a larger game) and with the rest of the points put into taking a few skeeters and gremlins. Leave yourself at least 5 soul stones.

- Starting Thoughts

There are a few things you want to consider once you see what crew Ramos is bringing to the party, I have personally fought against a heavy arachnid list with the Steamborg as a heavy hitter, the other main option you may want to watch out for is the heavy hitter list, which includes Joss. If he is bringing heavy hitters look over the terrain, and look for a path that will allow you to "Sneak" your piglets and warpig up the field. If he is heavy on arachnids, put the warpig out in front, and keep him in front as you move up the field; this tactic works for two reasons, the first is that it makes it harder to get to your piglets and use little spiders to self destruct all over them (Although not impossible, watch out for the Pass Through ability), the second effect is that the Ramos player may choose to keep his arachnids as a swarm, in order to confront your warpig, either way is good, as long as your piglets aren't wiped out too quickly.

- Turns before Conflict

In the first few turns, you're going to want to start moving your piglets and whisperer up the field, sending a skeeter along is also incredibly useful. Slowly move Teeth forward, doing the gremlin factory tactic, then making them into piglets; use Truffles to make Teeth move, leaving him all of his AP to keep making things. If on a turn you fail to cast Get yer bro (Whether it is because of a bad draw or no cards in your hand), get as close as you can to the number and Soul Stone to try and make it work, churning out piglets is at least two actions, and you don't want to start falling behind, also try to keep one good card in your hand in order to cheat Stick em in the Ass, and keep one or two soul stones around in order to make Teeth effective in combat.

- When Crews Collide

When the turn comes that you can see the crews about to hit eachother, if you have been hiding behind cover with your pigs, you should start with the whisperer and cast Never happen (Which should almost always go off), followed by Stick em in the ass (Use that card you should have saved) on the Warpig. Activate any gremlins you have first, forcing Ramos' crew to start activating, hopefully moving closer and only getting one attack off on either your piglets or Warpig. If the Ramos player was moving forward at all while casting, then Ramos himself should be about 10" behind the rest of his crew, with maybe a bodygaurd. Start with your piglets and have them fly over the wall, followed up by a pigcharge towards Ramos (With his amazing Df of 2). By the time you're finished with the piglets, the Ramos player should be out of models to activate. Then activate your Warpig, have him follow the piglet's lead, attacking at Ramos. At the end of his activation, make sure that Ramos is the closest non-pig model to the Warpig. Then reactivate the Warpig, causing him to stampede, and then stampede over Ramos three more times, you can cause some very catastrophic damage this way, Ramos' weak Df makes the Warpig his worst nightmare.

- Following Turns

On the next turn, try to make sure that you go first, if it's a 7 or less for your opponent's initiative, spend a remaining Soul Stone to go re-flip that. Start this time with Teeth, there is a very good chance that a spider is down near him due to the previous turn, activate "A gremlin's Luck" and cause Ramos to lose all of his cards (Yes, this means 6 Wd for Teeth), then use "Take a swig" twice for your other two actions. After that, start stampeding with the Piglets, try to angle the Warpig to kill a small arachnid, then eat your fill to bring him back to full health. There is very little Ramos can do to recover from the piglets.

-Other Notes

There are a few ways to respond to certain situations in order to maximize your effectiveness against Ramos' crew.

- If there is a small spider alone near your pigs, have one of them run over it a few times, it's better to use the actions of one piglet to keep the spider from exploding all over your other pigs.

- The warpig is powerful, but is not your only hope, he makes a great high Wd shield for your other models.

- If a piglet is stuck in melee with an enemy, use pigcharge to escape, and attack the opponent at the same time.

- If there is a low Wd spider near Teeth, activate him and pigsticker strike the spider with a Crow, use a Soul Stone to make it win, then discard two cards and change that spider into a piglet. Turning your opponent's models into piglets is better than turning your own.

- Don't be afraid to take some Wd on Teeth in order to destroy Ramos' control hand, without his crew diminishes greatly, all of his good spells require a Tome.

- Try to cheat in "Bowl Over" for your piglets, pushing around spiders into Teeth is a good way to get that low Wd spider talked about before.

- Above all else, have fun, if you've picked up Gremlins, then you should have a good ol' fart'n, stick'en 'em in tha arse, tak'n a swig kinda time!

[Justin]

Very good advice!

I must say that I also make ample use of a gremlin's luck with sommer. It wounds the hell out of him, but it's worth it. Sometimes I discard enough cards that it would kill sommer except for a damage prevention flip with a soul stone.

I notice you didn't talk about pull my finger much. I suppose because the frequency of armor in a Ramos list severely hampers its effectiveness?

[Tyrant]

I notice you didn't talk about pull my finger much. I suppose because the frequency of armor in a Ramos list severely hampers its effectiveness?

Very true, pull my finger is only helpful if Ramos scatters the spiders all around Teeth, which doesn't happen anymore now that they have to be summoned in Base to Base with the swarm. You're better off using Teeth to try and kill one while activating Come and get it.

Next on my list to write up is gonna be Ms. Criid. Although I have to play against her a few more times.

[Underbheit]

I just don't see how this is working for any of you. Maybe my opponents are just better players than yours. I've tried stampeding pigs everywhere, I've tried mass producing Gremlins, I've tried a mix of both.

You need an 11 or better to cast Get Y'er Bro successfully, that's 16 cards in the deck, 17 if you count the red joker. For a Mosquito to cast Pull My Finger you need a 10+. Parasitic Infection needs a 13 :crows or red joker, and is an all action with 2" range so unless you activate last and first and happen to have the card in your hand you will never use it. Larva is an all action so if you are churning out slow Mosquitoes you still aren't accomplishing anything.

Assuming the average flip is 7, you need an 8+ with your Cb 4 to get a -2 Dg flip vs their Df 5. You have to cheat in a 13 and hope they don't cheat just for a straight damage flip.

Unless you want to set Som'er up to be at low Wds, you can only realistically summon 1 Gremlin a turn anyways, as casting Get Y'er Bro on the same Gremlins just filters them, not actually gaining any board advantage. You have to Get Y'er Bro and the use Take A Swig to heal one of the Gremlins so that you can actually gain models. Even doing this leaves you with a new, slow, and wounded Gremlin. If you send him off to do something, he'll be dead in no time and most likely out of range of Survival of the Fittest.

I've got to agree with backward pepsi here.

Try as I might, I am finding it simply impossible to enjoy my gremlins in play. Which is saying a lot considering the amount of work I've put in to my models and the bog terrain project.

It seems like every other Master is cheesed out compared to Somer Teeth. I don't know how many times I've seen McMourning deal out 10+ damage in one turn, and I once had Perdita waltz into my deployment, survive 3 suicidal gremlin attacks and kill Teeth, in one turn. It aint right and frankly the wind has left my sails.

[n0signal]

Quick question: Do people in this thread play other Crews aside from Gremlins? I'm especially interested in the response from people who are struggling with them. (FYI, I play Zoraida and Leveticus too).

Reason I ask is because when I only played Gremlins, when I first got into Malifaux, I would feel a bit miffed and sad at their performance sometimes; which really started to get me down. Then I picked up my other crews and now I choose to play my Gremlins. It makes playing with them a lot more fun when you can pick their fights.

[paperbag4]

I also play Tina.

ispep, I play Gremlins in the same league as you, and have won half my games with them.

During the early game, I ONLY use my 11+ for Git your Bro, and usually have no problem casting it 4-5 times by the end of turn three. I cast it for my first activation, use Take A Swig to heal the Gremlin that I'm casting off of, and then cast it again with Reckless if I have the card in hand for the cheat. If I can't cheat it the second time, I use Reckless to use Take a Swig to heal So'Mer. Barring a Black Joker, the worst I can do on that is to break even on wounds.

I did cast Parasitic Infection once. It was yesterday. I had run Sonnia out of soulstones, and had the 13 crow in my hand. My opponent would have needed the Red Joker to resist, so I went for it and turned her into a bug. It was nice.

[Justin]

I've got to agree with backward pepsi here.

Try as I might, I am finding it simply impossible to enjoy my gremlins in play. Which is saying a lot considering the amount of work I've put in to my models and the bog terrain project.

It seems like every other Master is cheesed out compared to Somer Teeth. I don't know how many times I've seen McMourning deal out 10+ damage in one turn, and I once had Perdita waltz into my deployment, survive 3 suicidal gremlin attacks and kill Teeth, in one turn. It aint right and frankly the wind has left my sails.

Perdita and Lilith both do that. Gremlins are just not fun to play against those masters.

Against any other master, they are at a bit of a disadvantage, but that's just something you have to accept with gremlins.

n0signal: I also play Seamus and Zoraida. Switching does make the gremlins more enjoyable but, when they are your only crew and you spent a ton of time on them, being disappointing is a very valid point. Every game is going to have the weakling faction. Not just because it's impossible to balance perfectly, but because there are those people out there who enjoy a challenge. Or who know the rules far better than their friends and want to give them a chance. Or who need to teach their little brother how to play without making him cry. Weakness has a place. It would just be nice if the gremlin box had a warning label.

Edited January 28, 2010 by Justin

[n0signal]

Every game is going to have the weakling faction. Not just because it's impossible to balance perfectly, but because there are those people out there who enjoy a challenge. Or who know the rules far better than their friends and want to give them a chance. Or who need to teach their little brother how to play without making him cry. Weakness has a place. It would just be nice if the gremlin box had a warning label.

Yes, you make good points, and it is a shame that the Gremlins are pretty underpowered a lot of the time and very underpowered in certain situations... but that's just the way it is right now. *shrug*

Hopefully, when people are thinking of getting into the game they'll swing by this forum and read a few threads like this one - perhaps persuading them to pick up Som'er Teeth as a second master (unlike me who jumped in with this crew and only learnt to appreciate them for what they are after trying out some other masters).

But it would be good if they came away with the impression that "Gremlins are challenging but rewarding", rather than "Gremlins are s*%t!!". Heh. I know that your intention is to get everyone together and discuss the strengths of this crew and how to overcome their weaknesses. All good stuff!!

[Justin]

Yes, you make good points, and it is a shame that the Gremlins are pretty underpowered a lot of the time and very underpowered in certain situations... but that's just the way it is right now. *shrug*

Hopefully, when people are thinking of getting into the game they'll swing by this forum and read a few threads like this one - perhaps persuading them to pick up Som'er Teeth as a second master (unlike me who jumped in with this crew and only learnt to appreciate them for what they are after trying out some other masters).

But it would be good if they came away with the impression that "Gremlins are challenging but rewarding", rather than "Gremlins are s*%t!!". Heh. I know that your intention is to get everyone together and discuss the strengths of this crew and how to overcome their weaknesses. All good stuff!!

I did the same thing as you.

And I agree. I'd hate to have people abandon gremlins (or the game, for that matter) before really giving them a chance.

[Tyrant]

It seems like every other Master is cheesed out compared to Somer Teeth. I don't know how many times I've seen McMourning deal out 10+ damage in one turn, and I once had Perdita waltz into my deployment, survive 3 suicidal gremlin attacks and kill Teeth, in one turn. It aint right and frankly the wind has left my sails.

Have you never gotten severe with Dumb luck with Teeth? 10 damage, then some blasts to throw down, Teeth takes a few, but he's cool with that, he gets to make 1 action healing flips. Gremlins, due to their numbers, also have some incredible utility with the objectives; barring bad juju, nobody can get that Treasure token faster than a reckless flying warpig. I lost my first 10-ish games with the gremlins, then everything clicked together, now I'm winning with the Gremlins.

[Underbheit]

Have you never gotten severe with Dumb luck with Teeth? 10 damage, then some blasts to throw down, Teeth takes a few, but he's cool with that, he gets to make 1 action healing flips. Gremlins, due to their numbers, also have some incredible utility with the objectives; barring bad juju, nobody can get that Treasure token faster than a reckless flying warpig. I lost my first 10-ish games with the gremlins, then everything clicked together, now I'm winning with the Gremlins.

No, I have never scored severe with a blast weapon. Even when I have the cards, my opponent's flips/cheats have always been high enough that I can't cheat the wound flip.

I know it is sometimes possible to win with gremlins, but there are enough no win scenarios to kill my enthusiasm. I've read the same solutions over and over again, "just go for the scheme", "focus on the strategy", (which is often a forgone conclusion), or my favorite, "Try another crew". The last one really chaps my hide. This is a miniatures based game and I don't think I'm wrong to make the models my main interest. I like my gremlins and I shouldn't have to change crews to enjoy the game.

My bottom line:

Every time I play this game I want to feel like a win is possible. I know my friends have this feeling when they play their non-gremlin crews. I accept that I may lose and I may even have fun doing it, but knowing that I'm F**ked from the start is boring and I happens all too often.

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR GREMLINS!

[Justin]

No, I have never scored severe with a blast weapon. Even when I have the cards, my opponent's flips/cheats have always been high enough that I can't cheat the wound flip.

I know it is sometimes possible to win with gremlins, but there are enough no win scenarios to kill my enthusiasm. I've read the same solutions over and over again, "just go for the scheme", "focus on the strategy", (which is often a forgone conclusion), or my favorite, "Try another crew". The last one really chaps my hide. This is a miniatures based game and I don't think I'm wrong to make the models my main interest. I like my gremlins and I shouldn't have to change crews to enjoy the game.

My bottom line:

Every time I play this game I want to feel like a win is possible. I know my friends have this feeling when they play their non-gremlin crews. I accept that I may lose and I may even have fun doing it, but knowing that I'm F**ked from the start is boring and I happens all too often.

EQUAL RIGHTS FOR GREMLINS!

I would like to think that, that is not the advice I have been giving.

[Underbheit]

I would like to think that, that is not the advice I have been giving.

Your tactics are great, but as you've said there are still games that are impossible for gremlins to win.

[Justin]

Your tactics are great, but as you've said there are still games that are impossible for gremlins to win.

Very true.

[Justin]

Edited this into my initial advice post:

"You may also walk a gremlin up next to a model with a high defense and then shoot it with your other models. (remember, you can attack your own models) This allows you to shoot at a model with a lower defense and, since you control it, you can cheat the defense down. Once you hit your own model, cheat the damage to severe so you generate a blast and make sure the blast is over your opponent's high defense model. This does automatic damage. Just be sure your gremlin that your shooting at isn't in the enemy model's melee range, or this becomes incredibly difficult."

[cain]

Just be sure your gremlin that your shooting at isn't in the enemy model's melee range, or this becomes incredibly difficult."

Even this is no problem.

Shoot whatever you want, cheat the attack down, hit the guy in combat with Whoops automatically. If Somer stands near of course.

Think "unmodified" damageflip means no cheating the damage, but you get the blast at medium damage already, (and even with severe damage the blast damage for the enemy will be 2 anyway...) so good are ok.

Medium damage is still better, because your gremlin in combat will survive and can catch a second Whoops.

[Justin]

Even this is no problem.

Shoot whatever you want, cheat the attack down, hit the guy in combat with Whoops automatically. If Somer stands near of course.

Think "unmodified" damageflip means no cheating the damage, but you get the blast at medium damage already, (and even with severe damage the blast damage for the enemy will be 2 anyway...) so good are ok.

Medium damage is still better, because your gremlin in combat will survive and can catch a second Whoops.

You can cheat the damage for whoops.

The problem with this is, the gremlin in combat has to be the closest friendly model. Not always the easiest to pull off. But still good.

[Joona]

Woops!: Unmodified damage flip of 1/2/3. No blasts there Disregard that, I suck...

edit. Blaargh, I should read the errata more thoroughly...

Edited January 31, 2010 by Joona

[Ropetus]

Woops!: Unmodified damage flip of 1/2/3. No blasts there

Actually:

Woops!

Replace description with: "When this model misses with

a [weapon name] Strike, the closest other friendly model

within 10" and LoS suffers an unmodified Damage Flip of

[weapon damage]. If there are no other friendly models

within 10" there is no effect."

-Ropetus

[Sturm88]

So, this threads original intent was to encourage and help people with Gremlins...

As a new player, all it has done in regards to help, has helped me choose another faction, haha j/k

Seriously though, I really hope its just a learning curve and not just a single "this is the only viable startegy" with the gremlins...I really hate when games let extreme balancing issues and over charactered fluff ruin the actual gaming experience for a "faction".

[Justin]

So, this threads original intent was to encourage and help people with Gremlins...

As a new player, all it has done in regards to help, has helped me choose another faction, haha j/k

Seriously though, I really hope its just a learning curve and not just a single "this is the only viable startegy" with the gremlins...I really hate when games let extreme balancing issues and over charactered fluff ruin the actual gaming experience for a "faction".

Well, if that's all you take from it, it was better to find out that you don't like gremlins before buying them, wasn't it?

Despite their weaknesses, I do enjoy my gremlins, and that's what matters.

Edited February 5, 2010 by Justin

[paperbag4]

It's more of a learning curve than a "this is the only thing you can do to succeed." There's limited models available, which makes it seem one dimensional, but within those models are lots of different tactics and strategies.

[Sturm88]

Well, if that's all you take from it, it was better to find out that you don't like gremlins before buying them, wasn't it?

Despite their weaknesses, I do enjoy my gremlins, and that's what matters.

It was more of a sarcastic gloat at the nay-sayers.

I played Menoth, I ran Amon, and won every single time. Its a matter of using what you have and doing what you can do good.

Honestly, from what I gather I see Gremlins to play like stage hands. They get things done behind the scenes and try not to draw attention to themselves.