Leveticus Crews - Post up yours today!

[Omadon]

Now theres a though, they've got the ravens +2 damage thing havent they? Shall take a look over them at some point.

That said - I really think people are shooting themselves in the foot taking SPAs. They're purposfully fragile, and if you plan for a desolation-bomb esque play, whats to stop the opponent just shooting one of them? I really think they're kindof under budget with stats specifically because of how easy they are to summon. You get alot more out of spending 9 of those points on Betty, 2 of them on a Canine Remains and then having an extra soulstone. Betty's damage output is almost on par with the desolation engine, and she can pop up damn near anywhere, anndd she has marked for death. Did I mention she had marked for death? Because she has fucking marked for death.

I actually played my usual list (Page 1 of this thread) having swapped Killjoy for Betty & a dog, and ended up with a desolation engine anyway on turn three. SPAs don't give you any kind of board control, they just act as a one trick pony assassination bomb thing, which is veerry easy to disrupt, and they're capacity to make more of themselves is somewhat hampered by the fact that they deal like no damage

Also, on a sidenote - SPAs > Pandora ^^

[karn987]

They aren't that easy to stop if you hide them and make sure they have the "can't shoot me" thing up on the one infront at all times and thats not that hard to do. Plus when they turn into the engine, that ability will carry over on that turn so it's still safe.

I've run it several times and short of the freaking Astringers (As unfun as they are) the SPA's have made it up field to Desolation bomb range and done their trick. It's very very hard to stop them if their is Terrain on the board ;D

[Omadon]

That said - it's still a one trick pony, and if they keep spread out, and keep some soulstones on hand, then it isn't going to do all that much. If you take things with the potential to make SPAs during the game, then not only can you do more to start with, the activations of all of your starting models, along with random stalling with waifs, and then all the jumping about with SPAs later on - in all likleyhood the opponent won't have any activations left that turn.

Hm. I think a compromise is in order. Starting with four SPAs, in my oppinion - is a waste of points. Perhaps 1-2? Keep them back at first, use them to chip down levi if you need him to die, just keep them seperate. Then around turn 2-3, when stuff starts falling over, you get to do alot more damage with them. There's also a much smaller chance that after burnout puts it to one, that you just lose the engine to bad initiative flips.

Edited January 13, 2010 by Omadon

[n0signal]

Now theres a though, they've got the ravens +2 damage thing havent they?

Yeah, with Blessings of Desolation their Meat Hook strike is effectively Cb6:crows:crows and Dg 4/5/8!! That's not bad for a 7SS model. Also Hard to Wound 2 with 10 wounds, Ceaseless Advance makes up for it's slow speed by giving it a free Wk each turn or if it's in melee a free strike, and it's potentially Fast if you can burn a black/red joker on Dumb. As I said, it seemed decent to me, but I've never read about anyone using them with Leve.

Also, on a sidenote - SPAs > Pandora ^^

I'm intrigued; explain!!

[karn987]

I wouldn't call it a 1 trick pony especially because if the Desolation Engine isn't killed right away it will do searious damage picking things off in the back line.

But your compramise is interesting to say the least. The hard part is creating the other 2 SPA's you would need to make the engine since he can only make them from scrap counters and constructs and more then half the time, there will be no constructs on the field besides your own.

If you really want the Desolation Engine then use it, bring the 4 SPA's (its by far not a waste and they are very very tough to stop fyi unless you have something stupidly cheesy like the guild Austringers.) and keep them lurking around until you need to do the Desolation Bomb and then rip the enemy in shreds. Its not that hard to keep these guys alive and very often the Engine will kill and distract far more then it's cost in models and when it is finally killed, you get half of another engine ready and raring to go. Levy is the true power here, this thing is a giant walking face eating machine that will take preasure off of Levy and do some damage to. I really don't see why you don't like it Oma, what don't you like about it so much?

[Omadon]

You misunderstand, I don't disslike it, I just disslike paying for it. My aim with Levi is not just to kill things, but to maximize the conversion to SPAs. SPAs themselves arent brilliant untill you turn them into a desolation engine, and yes - they do alot of damage. I simply prefer to drop them off opposing models later in the game, as that kindof feels like why Levi has those spells in the first place. The utility you gain from taking Betty + a Canine Remains or even a Killjoy and some soulstones with those points is fantastic.

[n0signal]

Does anyone use Steampunk Arachnids/Swarms with Leveticus?

[TheBugKing]

Yup! They are great. Much better in Brawls with Ramos though. Then it's almost unfair I think.

[n0signal]

Yup! They are great. Much better in Brawls with Ramos though. Then it's almost unfair I think.

I was just curious, because I've built my crew with him very much as a Resurrectionist master, and I've not really taken advantage of his construct-hiring at all. I couldn't see a whole lot of synergy with Arachnids, but I thought perhaps I'm missing something?

Actually, all my proxy games were just with him, Alyce and some SPA's; last night was the first time I'd run my new crew with Bete Noire and Necropunks. I was very impressed; Bete is hard to remove permanently when Leve keeps drawing potentially high cards to sit on every time he gets a spell off; either letting her hit hight cards with her Df7 or use them for One with the Night.

BTW, I'm guessing the "successfully cast" trigger happens before the enemy fails/passes the spells resist? 'Cause technically you've successfully cast it regardless of what happens after the fact.

[Omadon]

the arachnids work better with him than SPAs do What happens when you give one of them blessings and another reactivate? Blessings makes every hit of their melee mastering lunacy automatically paralize. Seriously. SPAs are not brilliant. They are a fortunate byproduct of killing things with Leveticus.

Furthermore, I'd personally avoid playing Levi and Ramos together, as Ramos is sooo suit hungry. Levi's jack-of-all-trades nature kindof falls apart when some twat keeps stealing all of his tomes. I'd rather have the 10SS and freedom to spend every single point available to the game.

Also - yes, Disciplined Caster triggers off sucessfully casting, I say this with the optimistic certainty of somebody who'se been playing it that way for the past three months, and wouldnet like to entertain the idea that he's wrong ^^

[TheBugKing]

Sadly no. You announce triggers after both players have developed their duel totals. A resisted spell is a failed cast so no triggers.

One thing to keep in mind, however is that a pulse that generates resists only needs one failed resist to be successful.

[TheBugKing]

As for playing Leveticus and Ramos, they both do a great job of generating cards. Ramos just wants high Tomes. Leveticus can make do with either and really doesn't need really high cards. The way I usually play it is to send Leveticus forward supported by Swarms (Who automatically trigger paralyze on every hit with blessings. Sooo Good!) while Ramos sits in the back functioning as a spider factory. In a pinch you can use his Salvage Under Fire to just generate scrap tokens as well.

Another thing to keep in mind is that Ramos with goodies like the Hooded Rider are insane. Ramos also does a good job of healing the constructs in the list. Like the Desolation Engine or any Necropunks that get smacked but not killed outright. Another gem is using the brass arachnid to drop arcing screen. It's pretty funny to have the DE with Arcing Screen up. Go ahead and smack it. How nice you take 2 wounds. Plus the +2 Df is nothing to sneeze at. It actually makes the thing surprisingly survivable.

[Omadon]

Sadly no. You announce triggers after both players have developed their duel totals. A resisted spell is a failed cast so no triggers.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask you to recheck that. Consideirng that Surge is an almost identicle trigger, but says "If the defender fails it's resist duel", whereas Disciplined Caster simply requires you to succesfully cast the spell?

Furthermore - direct quote here.

"The casting model wins the Duel and successfully casts the spell if it's total is equal to or greater than the Casting Cost and includes at least one of each suit listed in the TN. (Success)"

By the way this is worded - the resist duel happens afterwards? the paragraph on Resistance Examples backs me up.

"In the casting example above, Ramos successfully cast Electrical Fire against his target. Since Ramos' casting total was 20, the spell requires the target to win a DF->20 Resist Duel or suffer the spell's effects."

It says nothing about the spell failing if they resist, just that they don't apply the effects. Sorry man, I think you're mistaken ^^

[brucemanning]

My 30SS crew is

Leveticus, Steampunk Necromancer

with

Rusty Alyce 8

Killjoy 11

Bad Ju Ju 10

[TheBugKing]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask you to recheck that. Consideirng that Surge is an almost identicle trigger, but says "If the defender fails it's resist duel", whereas Disciplined Caster simply requires you to succesfully cast the spell?

Furthermore - direct quote here.

"The casting model wins the Duel and successfully casts the spell if it's total is equal to or greater than the Casting Cost and includes at least one of each suit listed in the TN. (Success)"

By the way this is worded - the resist duel happens afterwards? the paragraph on Resistance Examples backs me up.

"In the casting example above, Ramos successfully cast Electrical Fire against his target. Since Ramos' casting total was 20, the spell requires the target to win a DF->20 Resist Duel or suffer the spell's effects."

It says nothing about the spell failing if they resist, just that they don't apply the effects. Sorry man, I think you're mistaken ^^

Could be actually. (This is why I'm not a Marshal after all.) I'll pounce on the Sketch and chat it with him.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Casting a Spell is a Simple Duel, not an Opposed Duel.

If you succeed in meeting the spells TN, it's a success. And, of course triggers for the caster occur here.

THEN

The defender makes a Resistance Duel, which is also a Simple Duel.

And Surge triggers off of successfully casting a spell as per the Errata.

[Omadon]

My 30SS crew is

Leveticus, Steampunk Necromancer

with

Rusty Alyce 8

Killjoy 11

Bad Ju Ju 10

How do you ever plan on summoning Killjoy? If you do it with a waif, then he's like.. Right There, in your face. Taking two big guys is totally pointless - they do the same thing. JuJu's only real use is specifically for trasure hunt anyway. Tbh - Killjoys pretty damn expensive for that many points anyway. Cut down on big things, take a dog, and run Betty

Furthermore. Yus! Vindication! <3

[n0signal]

Bad Juju is hard enough to use in a Zoraida crew, where allegedly he should have some synergy; in a Leveticus crew I can only see him as a big expensive resource drain (Leve most likely either won't have the 2SS for Eternal or will have better things to spend them on). So, personally I find it an off choice, however brucemanning may have found something I'm overlooking; so how is Juju being used and why is he a good choice? I'm always willing to learn.

BTW, something that came up the other day that I wanted to check up on - I had blown all my soul stones plugging Lady Justice with spells and I really needed some more. I used Drain Souls on one of my Hollowed Waifs, which sacrificed it and gave me a soul stone. Then, because it was sacrificed it came back in the close phase. I even sacrificed both of them on a couple of turns when I thought Leveticus was safe for two soul stones. This is all legal right? It seems that as long as you're not bothered about everyone's Wp dropping like a stone (does your master's drop too?), Leve has a recycling access to soul stones.

[TheBugKing]

You can't use Drain Souls on the Waifs. No insignificant models. Also, it does not effect masters.

For reference:

(1) Drain Souls: Masters Only. Sacrifice up to 3

friendly models within 6”, ignoring LoS. The

Crew’s Soulstone Pool gains 1 Soulstone for each

model sacrificed. Each time a Crew takes the

Drain Souls Action, every non-Master model in

the Crew receives a cumulative -1 Wp for the

remainder of the game. Insignificant models

cannot be sacrificed with Drain Souls.

The interesting thing here is that models that are not on the table when the Drain Souls action is taken do not suffer the -1 Wp. So Bette could dodge it along with the Waifs as they get recycled and any SPAs that get summoned later on.

[n0signal]

Ah, balls, I hadn't noticed the "no insignificant models" part. You guys were very clever when designing this game; there are lots of times that a combo might seem a bit broken and then if you read carefully it's covered somewhere else that you can't do it. Easy to overlook some of the subtle nuances sometimes, but they are there and they're very elegant.

[TheBugKing]

Thanks n0sig. We looked at that pretty early on with Leveticus since he is so bloody different. Having a recyclable soulstone generating mechanic with him is QUITE broken. He functions really well with little or no SS pool as you have stated before but having them is insanely good. Especially a never ending supply. Yikes!

[Isoulle]

Ah, balls, I hadn't noticed the "no insignificant models" part. You guys were very clever when designing this game; there are lots of times that a combo might seem a bit broken and then if you read carefully it's covered somewhere else that you can't do it. Easy to overlook some of the subtle nuances sometimes, but they are there and they're very elegant.

Yeah we really went over him with a fine tooth comb. It helped that we had some people who loved breaking games and used their skills for good instead of evil for once. I remember in the beta when Levi could have a 27 card hand on turn two. That was awesome...

[lawrence]

Ah, balls, I hadn't noticed the "no insignificant models" part. You guys were very clever when designing this game; there are lots of times that a combo might seem a bit broken and then if you read carefully it's covered somewhere else that you can't do it. Easy to overlook some of the subtle nuances sometimes, but they are there and they're very elegant.

Oooohhhh....Rematch!!!!!

[n0signal]

Oooohhhh....Rematch!!!!!

Haha, yes definitely!! (Lawrence is my opponent that I seem to have unknowingly cheated.)

[Omadon]

Yeah we really went over him with a fine tooth comb. It helped that we had some people who loved breaking games and used their skills for good instead of evil for once. I remember in the beta when Levi could have a 27 card hand on turn two. That was awesome...

Would I also be correct in assuming that Levi was the reason that the nurses weren't undead? Or was that accidental ^^

Levi + Combat Drugs kindof breaks the game.