What makes Teeth competitive?

[Snakeman]

As a recent "victim" of the draw the complete deck into hand with a 4 mosquito, 2 Hog Whisperer, Warpig 25SS list, I must say this was rather disheartening, even when I ran a mostly construct list with Rasputina.

Turn 1, during all my activations, he just kept sacraficing one mosquito to another generating cards until all my activations were over, then proceeded to draw his entire deck. Then using the mosquitos to basically pull themselves across the board (using the combination of Summon and the fact that an All action can still be done if you are slowed), "moved" his 4 mosquitos across the board, then "moved" them right next to Rasputina, then had one attack with a red-joker, to which rasputina flipped, cheated and soulstoned to stay alive. Have a second mosquito repeat with a 13 and rasputina doing the same. Then using the other two sacraficed them away and moved, them back to the otherside of the board. Round 2 and 3 were the same until Rasputina died, having run out of soulstones.

So we meta-gamed a bit more and my only solution to this is to run with an all construct list, but even then with a Warpig with a stacked deck (by discarding all but the best, and spending the first portion of the turn drawing up the deck) he can kill most anything. If he can play the discard pile as only three cards (red joker and two 13's) card there is a 2/3 chance the attack is a 13, a 50/50 chance of the damage being red joker, and if so a warpig can do 12 points of damage in a single hit.

So I do hope there is a fix for this card draw engine, as it does make for very long and one sided battle.

I'd say the "fix" to this problem, until such time as there's an official errata is a conversation with your opponent that goes something like this: "OK, we've indulged the mental exercise of trying to break the game mechanics and satisfied our curiosity that it can be done. Now, I'll ask you to kindly refrain from doing that to such an extreme in the future if you want both of us to continue playing a game and enjoying giving each other a challenge. If not, I'm sure there's a bag of sand around here somewhere that you can just punch randomly that will give you as much of a contest."

This is, of course, assuming that you're playing in the context that I do - where your opponents are people you enjoy hanging out with and giving one another a mental challenge regardless of the game being miniatures, checkers, or gin rummy.

Hoping they do have an official "fix" to this soon. I like the hillbilly goblins but don't want to be known for playing "that cheesy crew".

[Borzag]

Okay, I'm yet to have a game (was going to have one yesterday but a meeting ran late), but just a quick observation based on time playing Menites:

Yes, sacrificing your models "for the greater good" is all well and good, but don't you, you know, need to have models on the table to actually play the game?

Yes, :teeth can summon more gob... er, GREMlins with Git Yer Bro, but he needs to have some on the table to start with. And you need to kill a lot of pigs and Gremmies to go through the combos to get them. That's a lot of dead bodies, while your opponent is doing things like moving around and not generating duels so you sit there like a jackass with a handful of cards and not getting to use them. And when you throw in Encounters and Schemes, where you need to start looking at board control, and suddenly having less models for more cards (which need to be recycled anyway) doesn't seem like a great choice.

Having said that, my Gremlins won't be doing this trick. They already kill themselves through brute idiocy, so why add to that number for a cheesy game of Solitaire?

Borzag

[Monkey]

OK so now the skeeters are fixed and SOTF have had a good old poke from the nurf stick what makes jones effective? As im kinda struggeling to see a solid tactic. So jones will blow his activation to generate 1 card over a normal starting hand for a normal crew. so would it be a better bet to drop jones and forget about the card generation and use Zoraida as a master and then just have the hog wisperer about to gen more cards ?

sorry for the random bold text cant get rid of it even highlighting and then clicking hte bold button wont clear it.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Monkey
fixint typos and trying to fix random bold bits. all in a days work for a good old muppet

[n0signal]

Well, since most people seem to feel that the cuddle to SotF is a tad harsh, hopefully it'll be reversed or re-jiggered accordingly. Unless Wyrd want the Gremlins to be completely reliant upon luck/Fate, which is how they play at the moment.

[AoM]

Not completely reliant upon fate unless you're playing them wrong. I've got a Gremlins player who constantly wrecks face.

Pigs, Focus, and the Alpha Stank are amazing. So what if you can't double/triple/quadruple trigger Survival of the Fittest? Push models towards you with pigs and then hit them with a wall of stank. You've got a killer damage potential there.

Gremlins can reactivate. Move, Focus. Survive. Stab in the ass. Survive. Focus again.

Give a Gremlin slow? No problem. Reckless puts you right back where you want to be; and since you're not using more than 2 actions that way, you're not taking the damage.

Seriously, Gremlins are every bit as nasty as a Nicodem list or a Pandora list.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

:teeth:withstupi

Stop trying to play the Gremlins like they're the Guild.

[AoM]

Guild, Arcanists, dead hooker swarm, whatever. Gremlins can take them all, play with their own twist on them all, and do it all with bacon and 'shine.

[n0signal]

Push models towards you with pigs and then hit them with a wall of stank. You've got a killer damage potential there.

Can someone explain this "alpha stank" tactic to me. I assume above you're talking about Bowl Over to move things 4"? You're reliant on hitting well, with a Pig, needing a mask?

Gremlins can reactivate. Move, Focus. Survive. Stab in the ass. Survive. Focus again.

How are the Gremlins getting Reactivate!? I've highlighted the word above that is a problem with the Gremlins and Piglets. Having 4/5 wounds I find that pretty much anything is one-shotted with Critical Strikes.

Seriously, I love my littlke Gremlin buggers. I have great fun playing with them!! They just seem like the "joke" crew at the moment and I'd like to know exactly how people are allegedly being so devastating with them. I've had my ass utterly pwned by the likes of Lady Justice and Lilith, because Gremlins can't survive raw damage output... and without high :rams cards I can't get Dumb Luck off to strike back with equal force.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Can someone explain this "alpha stank" tactic to me. I assume above you're talking about Bowl Over to move things 4"? You're reliant on hitting well, with a Pig, needing a mask?

Pull My Finger + Skeeters

10 Damage from 10" away. Think about it.

How are the Gremlins getting Reactivate!? I've highlighted the word above that is a problem with the Gremlins and Piglets. Having 4/5 wounds I find that pretty much anything is one-shotted with Critical Strikes.

Hog Whisperer's Stick 'im in tha Ass.

[DireTrollJake]

a couple of Q's.

1) What is this Alpha Stank? I assume it has something to do with abusing Pull my finger...

2) Is there a for sure ruling that slow and reckless fast mitigate losing any actions and still no wounds? Upon wording, that seems right but this game has it's fair share of poor wording (expected to work out in company growth, amazing game)

3) What is a typical list you use? I am considering these guys over my guild for an event at 30 SS but not sure I have what it'll take. I own the box, 2 whisperers, 4 Piglets and a Warpig. I can proxy the Skeeters, may need more Gremlins I presume...How many soulstones should I cache?

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

1) What is this Alpha Stank? I assume it has something to do with abusing Pull my finger...

See my post above.

2) Is there a for sure ruling that slow and reckless fast mitigate losing any actions and still no wounds? Upon wording, that seems right but this game has it's fair share of poor wording (expected to work out in company growth, amazing game)

It works as written. If they pop reckless after being Slow due to being summoned, they can perform 2 actions. They aren't taking more than 2.

3) What is a typical list you use? I am considering these guys over my guild for an event at 30 SS but not sure I have what it'll take. I own the box, 2 whisperers, 4 Piglets and a Warpig. I can proxy the Skeeters, may need more Gremlins I presume...How many soulstones should I cache?

Load up on Mosquitos.

Save at least 4 Stones for the Alpha Stank.

[n0signal]

Hog Whisperer's Stick 'im in tha Ass.

Yeah, but that only works on Pigs, not Gremlins right?

Perhaps my problem is that I'm not running any skeeters. I've not proxied them because the actual models are out soon so it seemed trivial to just wait for them.

[DireTrollJake]

ooo....nice!

I am planning to run

Teeth

2x Giant Mosquitos

Bayou Gremlin

Hog Whisperer

2x Piglets

Warpig

The lone Gremlin is for duplication thru GYB, do you think I need a full 4 skeeters? If I were to take them I'd need to drop a piglet I assume...

Edited November 11, 2009 by Godspeed

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

Yeah, but that only works on Pigs, not Gremlins right?

It does only work on pigs.

But when you're running two Warpigs that are flying... Or just one and some piglets...

It's bacon time.

[WEiRD sKeTCH]

ooo....nice!

I am planning to run

Teeth

2x Giant Mosquitos

Bayou Gremlin

Hog Whisperer

2x Piglets

Warpig

The lone Gremlin is for duplication thru GYB, do you think I need a full 4 skeeters? If I were to take them I'd need to drop a piglet I assume...

If you want to, start a factory.

Git yer Bro, then heal one of the two Gremlin on the table, then have one Skeeter (Companion) make another skeeter out of the one that has less wounds, Survival of the Fittest triggers.

Gets you a net of 2 cards, and a Mosquito in one Turn. All for the cost of one point of damage.

Meanwhile, have your Warpig & Piglets running distraction.

[DireTrollJake]

Nice. I usually do spend my first turn or 2 making Gremlins and sending the lemming troopers to the field while sticking back and doing this. My list is usually the box+Whisperer tho. My Piglets are in the mail and I am going to proxy some Skeeters.

[AoM]

Gremlins and Leveticus are actually more about using your crew as a whole than just about any other faction/crew when you actually get down to it.

Sorry for the erroneous comment about reactivating Gremlins. I don't have cards or my book with me at work.

I can't wait to see what Eric's got in mind for the gremlins in the next book. He's said they're working on it, and I'm hoping we see some more crazy stuff.

The Gremlins might have the most humor, but they are definitely no joke.

[n0signal]

Not meaning to thread-necro (think of it more as a "steampunk thread zombie") but I played a game with Teeth last night where I actually felt, for the first time, that I got a firm grip on how to use him and his crew. BTW, I've had a load of games with him now, so I think it's probably taken me longer than most to learn all this. :disappoin

Firstly, I maxed out on as many Piglets as I could, along with the War Pig; I kept a few stones back for the Hog Whisperer and a couple of Bayou Gremlin. From the get-go I sent all the Pigs and Whisperer up field to start harassing the enemy. Meanwhile Jones sat back and began to "Git yer bro" onto the Gremlins, creating two new ones and leaving them all surrounding him (2" away) and on 2 wounds.

From the second turn I started making snap decisions whether to give the Gremlins a swig and get them healed, or to stab them up with his Pig Sticker and use "Come and get it" to get another 100% healthy Piglet back onto the board. Basically, I activated Jones towards the end of each turn and if a Piglet had been killed, then I bought another one on, if not then I healed a Gremlins or two or did another "Git yer bro" - the important thing is to be always bringing on new models or healing them each turn. (I always left at least two Gremlins on half wounds tho so that I could reliably kill them if needed for "Come and get it".)

The Hog Whisperer got spanked mid-game, and only had a single wound left, so he withdrew to claim objectives, leaving the Pigs to stampede all over the place. However, Jones and his Gremlins where all behind forests, blocking LOS, so could never be a target of the Pigcharges.

[AoM]

leave off a few pigs for a couple more gremlins. Move, Focus a shot, take your wound, then you can still get split for "Git Yer Bro." You've now got a Gremlin with 1 wound left. if he dies, you get a card. The new Gremlin with 2 wounds is slow, but you can still get 2 actions with Reckless. And since Reckless specifically states that you get hurt if you use more than 2 actions, you're still in the clear.

Just wait. I'm sure Eric and Nathan aren't done with these guys yet.

[Tyrant]

Not completely reliant upon fate unless you're playing them wrong. I've got a Gremlins player who constantly wrecks face.

Hey, I think he's talking about me.

I find that the Gremlin list doesn't rely on luck when you use "Focused Shot" with the gremlins, usually only doing one damage anyway, but the focused shot is worth it to make sure your own models are safe.

One strategy that has worked fantastic in the past was mentioned on the first page, take piglets, give them fly, give the warpig reactivate, send them in after the opposing crew has finished activating. The piglets hit the enemy work with small amounts of damage, or even missing. The warpig goes in, maybe hits someone, then reactivates, this time stampeding. Makes 3 pigcharge attacks, if he kills anyone, he can eat his fill to fully heal. Next turn a full barrage of pigcharges for the enemy force. Sheer number of attacks are the way to go.

The Alpha Stank works amazingly in theory, I have yet to pick up Skeeters to actually try it, the thought is to pigcharge with a piglet, cheat with a decent mask to bowl them over towards your Skeeters and Jones, then abuse Pull mah finger to do 10-12 damage with the opponent having no resist flip.

Now for the math/summoning strategy, watch the magic of how to spend your soulstones with abuse, you should have a mask in your hand when you start this. Take one gremlin, and Som'r; activate the gremlin and use 3AP (Pass actions work just fine, an already injured gremlin works better) activate Som'r, cast "git yer bro" (Obviously only try if you know it will work) now you have two gremlins, one with 2Wd, one with 1Wd. Attack the 1Wd one with "Pigsticker Strike", cheat in your mask, cheat the gremlin down, kill the Gremlin. Draw 2 cards for a gremlin dying within 6", then discard 2 cards and summon a piglet. If by this time you have a mask in your hand, attack the second gremlin and cheat the same way. Now you just earned 4 Soulstones, going from a 2 point Gremlin to two 3 point piglets.

Also with Git yer bro, decently hard cast, but for every SS you don't spend on models, it's almost an automatic success for the Git yer bro spell. Also keep a SS or two on hand if you plan on bringing Jones to the front, a well cheated mask plus a added card with a melee attack against a weakened enemy model can easily earn you a brand new piglet... from small mechanical spiders, pigs. Spiderpigs, Spider pigs....

Well that seems to be all I can think of to talk about in way of how my strategy works, I tend to win, I lost against Z, armor on everything really slows my strategy down, beat Angel twice, and wiped the floor with Ramos more than once. I plan on showing up at the York tournament and trying my hand with a few new players. I'd love to play against Lilith, I think they'd all die nice and fast like. Aft'r all, she does got a purty mouth.

[Wombats]

Can you Eat Your Fill while Stampeding?

I assumed it was not a Pigcharge and therefore can't be done while Stampeding...

...I could be quite wrong...in fact, I hope I am

[n0signal]

I'd always interpreted it that a stampeding Pig must use all it's AP to Pigcharge at a (1) AP cost; noth that it can't do anything else. (0)Eat Your Fill doesn't cost any AP, so you're not spending AP on something that isn't a Pigcharge; therefore I would think it is legal.

[Tyrant]

I'd always interpreted it that a stampeding Pig must use all it's AP to Pigcharge at a (1) AP cost; noth that it can't do anything else. (0)Eat Your Fill doesn't cost any AP, so you're not spending AP on something that isn't a Pigcharge; therefore I would think it is legal.

Right, that's how I've got it, if you're reading the card it says "can take no other actions than pigcharge" (Paraphrased), but the errata changed it to what was listed by n0signal there. Pigs are where it's at in the gremlin list, gremlins themselves are for summoning more pigs.

Bet I look purty smart right 'bout now. (Sorry, at least one Gremlin-like comment required per post, can't help it.)

[Pandora]

In response to the question what makes teeth competitive? The number one thing in my mind in the game. Cards. He can draw more, and he can make you discard yours. Played properly this guy is more than a handfull.

Throw in pigs and 2 point models that shoot at cb 4 with range 12 and high damage. What else do you need? Did I mention he's also the most fun to play?