Painting eyes?

[JonasD]

Okay, here is my "poll".

In a historical forum (Geramny-based) I put fuel into a burning fire.

As some of the self-claimed experts agreed on the fact that in 28mm-scale the painting of eys with pupils etc. is not only unnecessary, but completely ridiculous and only for those, who have no idea of how to paint properly.

I then mentioned, I supected that these kind of arguments mostly come from those, who are more than fustrated with their inability concernig painting eyes.

Oh, I should have kept quiet. Now I am the black man of the game

Well, could be worse...

So then:

Is it okay or even necessary to paint eyes on 28mm Miniatures?

[Maestro]

I say it's up to the painter.

It is not at all necessary to paint them if you are, for instance doing a unit of 25 guys for Warhammer Fantasy, or even for 10 man units for WarMachine. Not if you're just aiming at a table-top miniatures that is.

But if, like me, you're aiming at the high-end of table-top armies or even showcase models, then I think you SHOULD do the eyes.

John

[SteveB]

Works either way. I rarely paint eyes on figures when I'm going for a realistic look. Usually don't bother on LotR figures for example.

[EldinTux]

At 25 or 28mm I feel it's almost essential, even for table top. When I first started I didn't do eyes (just painted them white) & they looked possessed.

[cdukino]

I think eyes gives the figures life. Eyes are the windows of the soul afterall. But for some figs you can get away with just shading (some Tom meier figs for instance are so fine and delicate in that area that they are near on impossible to paint wuthout getting a racoon, blow up dol look. I guess as the eyes are so small and such that you wouldn't see them really. Painted eyes on a figure often are more pronounced then they would be in real life. Also for tabletop I can see it not being as important all the time.

But for me... i always prefer to paint them. Adds expression and makes it complete.

[supervike]

I agree with Cindy completely. Minis without eyes are lifeless.

[Ritual]

If the eyes are paintable then I think that they SHOULD be painted. If the sculpt is such that you can't paint the eyes without making the eyes larger than it is in the sculpt, then don't. A clearly visible eye with plenty of space to paint it would look really shoddy if it wasn't painted, IMO.

[Wren]

I have heard this argument before, and sometimes wonder if the difference of opinion is one between historical vs fantasy/sci-fi painters, or perhaps even long-time vs. newer paint styles/preferences. The argument on one side is to paint the mini as if it were a person standing far enough away to look that small. So if you were standing at a distance to make a 6 foot tall man look 28mm tall, you probably wouldn't see his eyes. I suspect that's true, but my personal preference is to paint a detailed, miniature person. Particularly if it's intended for macro photography.

I have a couple of painting books focused on historicals, so I thought I'd take a look and see what they said. From How to Paint Realistic Military Figures:

"If the figure is 1/35 scale, we don't bother with the whites of the eyes at all. Realistically, at normal viewing distances you couldn't possibly see the whites of the eyes anyway. Instead, using a no. 000 brush, apply a very thin line of dark gray where the eyelids will normally meet. This will give a 1/35 scale figure a squinting appearance. If the figure is 90 millimeters or larger, the eyeballs would be distinct and must be filled in." (And then explanation of how to paint that, including an interesting tip for painting the reflection dot - "You do this by drawing the wet tip of your brush across your palette to flatten the bristles into a wide tip, then turn the brush 90 degrees and just touch the corner point to the center of the eye.")

From How to Build Dioramas:

"There is no point in including detail on a 1/32 figure that would not be visible on a man standing 12' away - if you can't see it in real life, you shouldn't be able to see it on a figure."

Later in the chapter he talks about specifics:

"Most diorama scenes are set outdoors, where men tend to squint in the sunlight. This makes their eyes little more than slits, even in 1/32 scale. Also, in all common modeling scales, the whites of the eyes are not white at all, but essentially the same color as the rest of the face. This is an instance of scale distance in which the tiny blood vessels blend in with the white of the eye to make it appear pink. Painting pure whites in the eyes is the major cause of the notorious "popeyed look" that every modeler wants to avoid."

The rest of the section on painting eyes uses diagrams and such, but basically he paints the whites of the eyes flesh colour, paints a full upper lid line but just a tiny bit of a lower lid line at the inside corner of the eye. But he does paint in the iris/pupil main eye area too.

[Ritual]

I don't paint the eyes white as I think that becomes too intense. I usually use an ivory or bone colour. But the way we paint minis, we often look very closely at the miniatures and an unpainted eye would then look bad.

I can see the argument the historical painters use, but it's from a perspective where the actual paintjob and the individual mini is not as important as the scene the miniature is part of.

[Wristaction]

I started using GW bleached bone for the white's myself for the same reason.

It all depends on the figure itself and i would try doing the eye's if possible but sometime's the figure can look better with just shading there instead.

[Skya]

The thing is historicals guys are either putting out a million guys for an army, in which case doing the eyes is so not worth the effort, or they're going for a diorama feel where it's not about looking at the individual figure, but at the piece as a whole. Even in the painters division at the historicals shows they're mostly judging on the overall presentation of the pieces as opposed to the quality and technique of the paint that's on the figures. They just dont seem to "get " what you can and cant accomplish with the scale.

[lauth81]

History players tend to have a zealous ambition to get things historically correct.

(On another historical wargaming forum in Germany, there`s a flaming war on which kind of elephants Hannibal used in his crossing of the alps and which impact this has on gamestats ... It goes on for lots of pages)

I think that transfers to their painting habits - which means not painting things which you can´t really see if you would stand far away to get the scale right.

Why they - on the same mini - paint small patterns on clothes (tartans e.g.) eludes me, though.

Personally I think you should paint the eyes. I don´t like it when the eyes are painted not up to scale and look like anime/manga characters´s eyes. That´s too big for a 28mm mini.

[callumrice]

Tis a great arguement and wren has some good points. I agree with the majority though in that eyes should be painted.

I dont understand the arguement of "if you cant see the guys eyes in real life from 12 feet away then dont paint them onto a mini". How does that work? When you look at a mini (with my blind eyes especially) its no more than 6 inches from my face!! Therefore any detail SHOULD be painted. Blemishes in skin, moles, eyes, spots, whatever, if you CAN paint them convincingly, paint them. If not, get better at it and do it! Its like saying "whats the point in highlighting and shading a belt buckle because from 15 meters away in real life you wouldnt see it". Might as well just paint the model in bobby basic colours with no shading/highlighting!

[Ritual]

Tis a great arguement and wren has some good points. I agree with the majority though in that eyes should be painted.

I dont understand the arguement of "if you cant see the guys eyes in real life from 12 feet away then dont paint them onto a mini". How does that work? When you look at a mini (with my blind eyes especially) its no more than 6 inches from my face!! Therefore any detail SHOULD be painted. Blemishes in skin, moles, eyes, spots, whatever, if you CAN paint them convincingly, paint them. If not, get better at it and do it! Its like saying "whats the point in highlighting and shading a belt buckle because from 15 meters away in real life you wouldnt see it". Might as well just paint the model in bobby basic colours with no shading/highlighting!

Years ago there was a guy at CMON who thought just like that. And he was furious when people adviced him to up his highlights and paint the smaller details.

[vincegamer]

I remember that guy. He claimed the ambiant light created enough shadow on the mini already.

Anyway, I say "Hell yeah" but disagree with the rest of that choice.

You shouldn't paint difficult stuff just to show off that you can paint difficult stuff.

Painting the eyes makes the mini complete.

I haven't spent too much time with tabletop gamers, but whenever I have, people come by and lean in real close to look at the minis.

Like Callumrice said, if you get real close, you will see if the eyes are painted. If they aren't, the mini just won't look complete.

And the eyes don't have to be detailed. If they are small, sometimes all I do is paint the socket black or brown and put a tiny (pink or gray or bone colored) dot on the left and on the right. That is the simplest method I know, and on the smaller stuff (and I do this on 10mm minis) it makes a big difference.

[Vytis]

I pretty much always paint eyes, and use Ivory for the whites and Black Grey for the pupils. It takes so little time for me I don't see why I would ever omit them, even in my game units.

[Wren]

Just as a note, I personally am from the fantasy school of painting and definitely believe in painting eyes! I like to paint them first, partly to allow room for errors that can more easily be repaired, but mostly because it really does give a little bit of personality to the mini for me, and makes it more fun painting all the rest. I just happened to have some historical painting books and thought I'd pass along their thoughts on the topic since I think there aren't as many historical painters as fantasy painters here on the Wyrd forums.

[callumrice]

I find that if the eyes are painted the mini looks complete, regardless of whether the eyes are painted well or not. BUT, painting the eyes well, makes the mini look good. Paint the eyes well and the mini looks cool I feel, there was an entry in female fetale where there was a model with the eyes painted, but not the best, and the same model painted but the eyes were well proportioned/detailed and to me it makes all the difference. To not paint the eyes at all is just silly in my view. Why buy a mini to paint then not paint part of it?

Wish I was good at painting eyes, my Eldar army has one of those strange diseases which makes every painted trooper cock-eyed! I will try Vincegamers way of painting eyes though, I generally painted them vice versa, bleached bone first then the dot. This often gives the "crazy" dilated pupils look! Works on some models though!

[Nathan Caroland]

Paint the eyes I say - only look right IMO but hey, each their own.

I used to really cock up the eyes real bad on mine and I had been making the mistake of doing them last instead of first, was a godsend when I finally got it figured out. That being said, I used to always make them too big I felt but finally got the idea of taking one of those Paint Pens (real small tip on it, great for drawing tattoos and the like) and using that to dot my eyes. Came out fairly well I thought.

Of course, on some of the bigger minis they looked a bit zombie'ish.

[Hinton]

I paint the eyes unless I'm going for an undead/zombie/possessed look.

[vincegamer]

For zombies I pant the eyes completely white and put a tiny black dot in the center. Sort of pupil without iris.

I think it looks creepy.

[EldinTux]

As to method of painting eyes (& there are far better painters than me here) I do them first with the who face. IOnce the flesh tones are complete, I white in the eyes, then 'dot' in the pupils. try to make the pupils slightly oval. Also I try to oversize the pupils rather than undersize then , you can always use your white or ivory to shrink them a little. If you find the whites getting too big, I'll use a wash around the eye to give is a little more shadow (colour depends on the mini).