NEWS: New sculpting putty Pro-create

[cdukino]

Well it's official now and I can finally tell about it I'm sure... as i found mention of it on the net by the people themselves.

I've been one of the people to be involved in the testing of a new sculptors putty like greenstuff. In fact it's from the same people responsible for greenstuff. It isn't quite greenstuff though... First of all... it's not green ... and it's called differently... It's called:

And this is one of the initial figures made with it:

Sculpted by Stephan Niehues from Masquarade

A fair few well known names in the industry have played with it or gotten it to try it out and given feedback on what they liked and didn't like, like Chaz Elliott, Stephan Niehues, The Perry brothers and more. (Can't beat sitting on a terrace, drinking a cocktail with Bob (the Pro-create guy) Chaz and Ming-Hua, playing with new putty and burying Bob in comments Was a fun day I can tell you... anyway... O drifting off...)

Finally batch 3 was considered to be ripe for marketing.

What are the new features I hear you ask:

I have tested the putty so I will give some of my experiences with batch 3... now known as Pro-create.

First of all I love the stuff. I was and still am very enthusiastic about it (and having to keep it quiet for months nearly killed me ). But of course it's no wonder stuff. You still have a learning curve like with greenstuff... and it still doesn't sculpt itself.

It's not that drastically different I think, but the small improvements are definitely nice. I think the easiest way to explain for people already used to fresh green- and brownstuff is... somewhere in the middle of that. But like with all sculpting putty's... it's a matter of preference. So I can't say this one is better or that one. You will in the end have to find out for yourself. Personally... I prefer Pro-create over the others.

As you can see the colour is different. It's light grey. This allows you to see much better what you have done I think then greenstuff or even more so brownstuff. Brownstuff I always liked but it was to dark). And it photographs a bit easier I think. Also the colour remains more uniform then with greenstuff even when mixed in different ratios. For me these colour issues are actually the best changes and the main reason I love it.

I'll keep it at this for the time being as I don't want to steal their thunder so to speak. More updates on my experiences with it as soon as it's been released officially and widespread.

http://www.procreate.de/

[Sergeant_Crunch]

How does it compare to greenstuff for things like filing, drilling, cutting, and such?

[Nathan Caroland]

I'm rather curious about this having heard about it today for the first time though I've spotted a few miniatures made with it at one time or another, though didn't realize it was the new Procreate stuff.

Same texture? What is the work time with it compared to GS or BS? How well does it hold up to vulcanize mold casting?

[cdukino]

How does it compare to greenstuff for things like filing, drilling, cutting, and such?

I think filling is a bit easier as it smoothens out more easily I think.

Drilling, cutting and filing more comparable to brownstuff... so better then with greenstuff.

Same texture? What is the work time with it compared to GS or BS? How well does it hold up to vulcanize mold casting?

Texture and feel is pretty much like greenstuff when it's fresh. Well slightly less rubbery and more sticky with a little less feedback (which helps with keeping the details sharp... but you need to get used to a bit. But if you sculpted more that won't take long at all). Worktime is a longer then green and brownstuff I've been told as that was one of the sculptors main wishes alongside with colour change. But I hardly ever use the whole time. I work small bits at a time and always speed up curingtime under a lamp. Which works very well with this. I still need to experiment more on the diffrent stages and times during the curing proces.

As for vulcanize mold casting. It was designed to withstand it. In fact it isn't differntly as far as I understand there to greenstuff and brownstuff. Goes perfectly.

You should really see it as a brother of green and brownstuff. What you can do with that you can do with this. It has some changes between then (just like brown and greenstuff are different) but they are the same family.

[Patrick]

I am way more interested in this material than ever using green stuff. I have a few specific technical questions regarding it's handling properties and it may all be answered under the umbrella "works like green stuff" but I'll ask anyway.

Does it respond to tools in the same way? (sticky? needs lube/water?)

In that regard, how does it respond to rubber clay shapers?

Since the elasticity is less, does it blend and smooth seamlessly to flat, smooth cured areas. (adding another muscle to an arm or leg)

Does it discolor much after being vulcanized? (not as important, but just for fun)

I can't wait to get some!!!

[cdukino]

I am way more interested in this material than ever using green stuff. I have a few specific technical questions regarding it's handling properties and it may all be answered under the umbrella "works like green stuff" but I'll ask anyway.

1. Does it respond to tools in the same way? (sticky? needs lube/water?)

2. In that regard, how does it respond to rubber clay shapers?

3. Since the elasticity is less, does it blend and smooth seamlessly to flat, smooth cured areas. (adding another muscle to an arm or leg)

4. Does it discolor much after being vulcanized? (not as important, but just for fun)

I can't wait to get some!!!

1. yes it does. You need to lubricate just like you would do with fresh greenstuff. it's a tad more sticky so lubrication is wanted. But basically you don't need to change your ways from working with greenstuff. You will get the feel of this in a few minutes already.

2. Same as greenstuff. I work a lot with clayshapers and that's the same with this material... see answer nr 1.

3. It blends and smooths easier I think. But your tool gets a tad less feedback as the material is less feedback like (doesn't work against you so much, doesn't push back as much.... i think i would call it feeling less rubbery)... Small change but I found it noticable. This is something that needs a little getting used to as you might have to work with a tad more care as it shapes (or deforms) more easily and faster.

4. The examples of the vulcanised putty i saw had hardly or no discollouration at all. But then again i also saw greens who hardly discoloured and some who darkened conciderably. Guess that depends on the moldmaker and heat as well. But as far as I saw... no change in colour after molding.

I don't know if I'm supposed to tell all these details yet (I don't think it will be a problem)... but just to be on the save side... keep it to this group a bit.

As for can't wait to get some.... I will mention it here when it's available and where when I know.

PS. The colour in the example picture isn't quite accurate (not on my screen atleast) I's a bit to light and not grey enough. It's a pretty neutral cold grey.

[SteveB]

Will be very curious to try this putty out. At the moment I'm using pure brownstuff after switching from green. Oddly I don't like mixing the two much due to the muddy colour. Annoys me (though it really shouldn't).

So, will try this when I can get some...

Steve B

[cdukino]

Will be very curious to try this putty out. At the moment I'm using pure brownstuff after switching from green. Oddly I don't like mixing the two much due to the muddy colour. Annoys me (though it really shouldn't).

So, will try this when I can get some...

Steve B

This was exactly my idea too.... I always prefered brownstuff over green save for 2 reasons why I did not use it... the dark colour and a bit more brittle. Procreate combines the best of the 2 with a perfect colour and a few nice new changes.

[green stuff]

The color seems perfect for readability, it's the sticky and hard to control factor I'm worried about. But if it doesn't "puff up" while curing then it may be interesting to look into. Any idea about the price?

[supervike]

So...being a devils advocate here....Is there a demand for such a product? If, from what I can tell, it has similar properties than what is already on the market, what is the point? Kind of a mid point between green and brown stuff?

Once the novelty of the newness goes away, are we still left with a product that is different and appealing enough to endure? I suppose price will be a large facter, as will availability.

[SteveB]

I think there's a market. A lot of sculptors use the brown/green mix now as it's a good compromise between the properties. The idea of a single putty which achieves this and has a more readable colour seems very useful.

Depending on cost I could imagine this becoming my putty of choice. It seems to tick the boxes. I'll reserve absolute judgement of course...

[SteveB]

Actually, I have another question. How is it when freshly mixed? I've found a lot of putties other than green/brown tend to be massively soft when mixed (aves, maicsculp, grey matter). They are all great putties when they've gone off a little but are really hard to use right away and are really mucky to mix because of this.

[Sergeant_Crunch]

What's the cure time like. I know you said the working time is longer, so I'm assumming the cure time is a little longer. Also assuming that "cooking" it like greenstuff will also work.

[minimaker]

Hi,

Cindy pointed out this thread to me, so I thought I'd drop in and add a few replies. I expect that more official info will become available soon (Cindy, I'll send you the official info when I get so you can report it as it's your job here ).

> it's the sticky and hard to control factor I'm worried about.

It's only a little more sticky than GS and you get used to that very soon. This was one of the things changed during finetuning. The first batch stuck to everything but the current is very decent. Also, like GS it will become less sticky during curing and you can make use of that by using the sticky phase for application and the drier phase for sculpting.

> But if it doesn't "puff up" while curing then it may be interesting to look into.

No memory effect like GS if that's what you mean. It's a little softer in feel and if you put something somewhere it will not try to get back in it's original shape. Still, it gives enough feedback to do precise work and it's cohesion is good enough to use push and pull techniques like with GS.

> Any idea about the price?

I have an idea but I'll check for the official reply.

> Is there a demand for such a product?

Yes. Green stuff is the most popular miniature sculpting putty around but both experienced and starting sculptors have had to deal with issues like visibility, memory, curing time and problematic post cure work. Since GS still sells good it's unlikely the makers of GS will change their putty to solve this. So yes, there is a demand for a new putty.

Other companies have already tried to create a new putty but none have been really succesfull. I think one main difference with them may be the large involvement of experienced miniature sculptors and casters from several countries (more than the ones mentioned by Cindy as an example) during the whole design process. And I think that because of that this putty has the potential to fulfill the demand.

Personally, I've been using different protoypes since the start of the year and going from the current batch I intend to switch to it when my GS stock is finished. Possibly before.

> How is it when freshly mixed?

Also soft like the others. I usually wait just a little but have also used it straight away. Like GS it's very sticky at the start so that's a good time to adhere it to the figure and roughshape it. Especially if it's small parts.

> What's the cure time like.

Full cure? Probably Similar to GS. I've never measured it but the next day it's hard like GS.

> Also assuming that "cooking" it like greenstuff will also work.

Yup.

> 4. Does it discolor much after being vulcanized? (not as important, but just for

fun)

In addition to Cindy's reply. The master we saw was indeed not discoloured. On the other hand I've accidentally left a figure in my putty oven for 12 hours (forgot to turn off the light) and that had a light grey-brown colour instead of grey. So I think that depending on the settings during vulcanising the master may change colour.

Bye, Ming-Hua

[green stuff]

Thanks for your reply Ming-Hua .

[mirlo]

Hi people,

Minimaker was kind enough to give me some of this to try out at Salute.

I have to say I didn't like it. Don't get me wrong- you can make a figure out of it, but I found nothing that was better than greenstuff and generally just not as nice to use.

It's a lot like 'white stuff' (blue and white strips) if anyone's used that.

There is room for improvement on greenstuff, many sculptors mix putties so that says something.

This has a 'plastic' feel to it that I don't like.

I really think brownstuff is the alternative. I don't use it as it doesn't survive moulding with my mouldmaker well.

I have a little left and I'll experiment more with little bits and pieces and maybe I'll find it has a use.

This is just my opinion for what it's worth, others may prefer the putty.

The problem with alternative putties is that beginners often think this is the reason things aren't going well and that they will be better with a 'better' putty.

Just stick to greenstuff is my advice.

[minimaker]

Hi Mirlo,

good to hear from you and interesting to hear your comments. What do you mean with plastic feel? The softness? Compared to the rubbery feel of GS? Bob should be interested to hear more about this.

As to white stuff, yeah, it does remind me a little of it. I still have some strips here but I don't like the material since it forms a skin whileg curing. During the tries I've had a few cases where it messed up the surface. Also, the properties were too close to GS to warant the price difference.

I really like brownstuff too but my problem with it is that adhesion is limited and I find it hard to see details when I'm using it. So your mouldmaker has problems with it? What problems exactly? Parts breaking and delamination when applied on metal by any chance? I had that too when I first used brown and I've found out that mixing in GS does help. It seems to become stronger and stickier. My "captian of the cards" was made of that mix and it survived mouldmaking with no problem at all.

Hehe, as to your comments on the beginners: you're right. Better putty, better tools, etc. Heard it all and added to the FAQ. But I've seen from 1listsculpting that the two of the things that beginners have most problems with are the memory effect of GS and the working time. I think that pro-create will be easier for that. On the other hand, the most asked question will remain: how do I keep my tool from sticking to the putty/how do I smooth putty.

Bye, Ming-Hua

(By the way, cool female figures in the tombstone range. Do you already know there is a weird west sculpting showcase over at the forum of doom?).

[mirlo]

Hi Minimaker,

Yeah I mean that green stuff is kind of 'rubbery'. Also when hardened which I like for cutting etc. This has a more solid plastic feel.

Although it's similar to white stuff it's certainly better! White stuff is just awful!

This putty needs time and lots of users and it may find it's place or use. It may just be a case of getting used to it.

Also, I'm not keen on the colour for working with and viewing as finished. Just a personal thing.

My mouldmaker can mould brownstuff with no problem. It's just when the master comes back it's completely disintegrated! No good for conversions etc..

I didn't know about that at FOD- I'll go check it out!!

Cheers!

Adam.

[mirlo]

Do you have a link for the weird west showcase? I can't find anything on FOD..

[cdukino]

@ Mirlo: here you go http://heresyminiatures.com/forumofdoom/index.php?topic=3416.0

[minimaker]

Sure, here it is: http://heresyminiatures.com/forumofdoom/index.php?PHPSESSID=39ac81450533a07b3773b3cdb6f94472&topic=3416.0

It's nothing official. Just something a few members came up with.

As to the brown stuff, this is that figure I just mentioned: http://wk.frothersunite.com/contest/2004/imag/ccmckao.jpg

It's mostly brown/green stuff mix and it survived the vulcanizer with no damage at all.

Pete B is the guy who cast it.

Bye, Ming-Hua

P.s. Hi Cindy, you just beat me to it.

[minimaker]

Quick addition for the US members, Jeff Valent has pro-create on his site now:

http://www.jeffvalentstudios.com/pnuke/index.php?module=PayPalCart&func=detail&pid=156&offset=0

$10,-- per 70 grams.

Actually, that ad just reminded me of another property I forgot to mention. Just like with GS you can change the properties of the material by changing the ratios of the component. Thing is though that the changes are a bit more extreme than with GS.It goes from soft to rubbery in the sculpting phase and GS-rubbery to Brown stuff-hard after curing. I mostly use a +/- 65 grey, 35 white mix.

And one more thing on the colour. The colour is pretty constant and not as dependent on the ratios of the components used like with GS. So the colour of the sculpt stays the same overal even if you use different ratios on different parts of the sculpt.

[cdukino]

Some more words from the guys behind procreate:

To maintain good shelf life we are using a foil backed paper wrapper and

each piece is wrapped individually. Also, the foil paper is heat sealed shut

so it will not unwrap. Foil is the best moisture and oxygen barrier

available. Also, each piece is extruded into its own individual tray before

it is wrapped to provide additional protection.

If ProCreate is left in a hot environment then over time I would expect, as

with any putty, to get slightly thicker. This is another reason we think

that starting out in production with a slightly less thick consistency is

the right way to go.

We try not to make the putty to stiff and difficult to mix. In facy we try to err on the side of being slightly to soft since we know that it will ultimately get stiffer after mixing.

Tim Mayer our technical manager will be attending Gencon and he will be bringing Procreate with him.

Not sure where it will be on sale in Europe. Stefan from Masquarade (Germany) possibly, and we will send Andy from Heresy (UK) samples for evaluation.

[Wren]

Does anyone know if the company is going to have a booth at GenCon, or is Tim more just doing this as a personal trip and any sculptors he touches base with will get a look at it?

[minimaker]

Hi,

they will not have a boot there but Bob is checking if anybody is interested in selling pro-create. I'll let you know when I get more info on that. In any case, Tim will be at some of the classes and he will be at the sculptors' meet. This is at the Hyatt Hotel, Friday night from 8pm. For more info you best check with Ron Hawkins at the Reaper boot or Sandy Garrity. Sandy is probably organising it.

If you don't know what I'm talking about, it's not a Gencon event but a privatly organised event which was started years ago. Sculptors just get together for a night of sculpting. It's very informal and everybody who is interested in sculpting is welcome. If you go, please say hello to Sandy, Bobby Jackson, Jason Wiebe and Ron Hawkins for me. And any other sculptor there who may know me (just say Ming-Hua from 1listsculpting, they know.).

Tim will also be walking about on Gencon himself. He will be wearing a T-shirt with this logo:

It's the first time he's on the convention so be kind to him to keep him from getting a culture shock.

Also, I just got a confimation from Stefan of Masquerade miniatures that he will be restocked soon and the putty can be ordered at www.procreate.de (and while you're at it, have a look at his miniatures and tools). It will be 12 Euro per package.

Bye, Ming-Hua