EricJ Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Hi All, I brought this up in a thread a couple weeks ago, but I'm working on my Games Day entries for 2006, and while I suppose there are reasons to keep it secretive, that's just not me, I like painting in a community rather than scheming alone at my desk! It is all probably 6+ months away, but why not start early right? So the point of this thread is to develop ideas, get feed back on WIPs, and decide on final entries. My goal is to have at least 6 entries, and I very much appreciate any help anyone here is willing to offer! I will continue to edit this first post with the status of each entry posting first the current leading idea, then the most recent WIPs or the photo of the finished piece when it is. Categories: Fantasy Single: This is hopeful, as it is not confirmed at the moment his fate due to his upcoming auction Fantasy Monster: This is confirmed!!! I got word 20 minutes ago that the winner of the Paint Aid auction will allow me to borrow the tyrant back in order to compete in a GD Fantasy Squad Currently no ideas 40k Single I have the option of entering Him But his paint job is already a year old, and in this tough catagory may not hold up. I think I can definately do better now. 40k Vehicle I would like to do a highly converted Penitent Engine, I have looked at bits and pieces to add to this, I think this will be one of my ealier efforts in this project 40k Squad Well I have 2 options of squads already completed The Retinue or The Sisters Do you think either of these would work? and which better? or should I look to upgrade this entry. I'm inclided to go with one of these since this is very time consuming catagory and my time might be better spent elsewere. Duel I sort of have this idea brewing about a duel on top of a tower between a Ultramarines Librarian and winged hive tyrant. The other idea I had was was with the penitent engine a a squad of Kroot...well all the squad but one killed, but the last one driving a dagger through the heart of the driver. Then I would need a new vehicle entry Lotr At first I in this catagory I thought I'd do something simple, a single figure just to get something done, then looking at the figures (and the lack of females in the range) I started thinking about Eowen, and envising her facing off with the witch king, which suddenly makes it a huge project, lol. I'm not sure how this catagory will be run, I think perhaps I'll start with Eowen and go from there... Again, feedback is more than welcomed, I'll do my best to keep this thread updated. And if enough people dislike this idea, I'm happy to take it down as well (well, not happy, but i'll understand) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grimeygames Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 These look AWESOME! One question...whats a Gnoblar? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Fantasy Single: This is hopeful, as it is not confirmed at the moment his fate due to his upcoming auction The Elf will win you something in my opinion. Fantasy Monster: This is confirmed!!! I got word 20 minutes ago that the winner of the Paint Aid auction will allow me to borrow the tyrant back in order to compete in a GD Of course he would - you win a GD with that bugger and its price goes through the roof and more importantly, this guy has bragging rights. Lucky bugger. Again, I think this one will win you something. Fantasy Squad Go with your strengths. You like 'pretty' things for the most part I've noticed. The new Wood Elves would probably be right up your alley, though granted, people may be tired of looking at them by then. Dark Elves also might do it for you. 40k Single I have the option of entering Him But his paint job is already a year old, and in this tough catagory may not hold up. I think I can definately do better now. Not up to your standard honestly, though he might place a bronze if you decided to go with him. Go with something that is a crowd pleaser - Space Marines seem to do it and I'm sure something suitable can be found. Maybe bugger Scibor for one of his new Black Templars or something (or do one yourself). Might not be 'legal' though and I wouldn't know. 40k Vehicle I would like to do a highly converted Penitent Engine, I have looked at bits and pieces to add to this, I think this will be one of my ealier efforts in this project Good choice. Lots of fiddly bits, nice piece though. 40k Squad Well I have 2 options of squads already completed The Retinue or The Sisters Do you think either of these would work? and which better? or should I look to upgrade this entry. I'm inclided to go with one of these since this is very time consuming catagory and my time might be better spent elsewere. Can you only enter one? If not, I would enter both of them, though I think the Retinue is the better one and honestly, would probably win you something as it is. Very nice piece. If neither of these do it for you, personally I would go with the Sisters Repentia or something like that - they just appeal to me. Duel I sort of have this idea brewing about a duel on top of a tower between a Ultramarines Librarian and winged hive tyrant. The other idea I had was was with the penitent engine a a squad of Kroot...well all the squad but one killed, but the last one driving a dagger through the heart of the driver. Then I would need a new vehicle entry Neat idea - time consuming as all hell I would think, but points for originality. Lotr At first I in this catagory I thought I'd do something simple, a single figure just to get something done, then looking at the figures (and the lack of females in the range) I started thinking about Eowen, and envising her facing off with the witch king, which suddenly makes it a huge project, lol. I'm not sure how this catagory will be run, I think perhaps I'll start with Eowen and go from there... Again, feedback is more than welcomed, I'll do my best to keep this thread updated. And if enough people dislike this idea, I'm happy to take it down as well (well, not happy, but i'll understand) Hate the LotR stuff but an entry is an entry. Radagast the Brown is a nice miniature. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 One question...whats a Gnoblar? They're the little goblin-ish critters that hang out with the Ogres. Mostly just do the menial tasks but some are fighters. Here's some fluff from the GW site: "The larger members of Gnoblar society have a tendency towards independence. These Gnoblars forsake their baggage-carrying brethren and band together into loose but numerous groups that take to the battlefield in the hope of stealing some particularly choice shiny things. Most of the time, the Gnoblars will loiter near the Ogres and make threatening yelps and shuffle around threateningly. When the Ogres march to war, behind them scuttle Gnoblars who believe themselves tough enough to fight. Great swarms of these cowardly runts take to the battlefield and occasionally even find a way to aid their Ogre masters. Every now and then, the Gnoblars' sheer numbers enable them to pull down their foe in a tide of snapping maws, stabbing blades, and pure malice. Gnoblar Fighters may be included in your Ogre Kingdoms army as Core choices. You cannot have more units of Gnoblar Fighters than you have units of Ogre Bulls." I hope this answers your question! :thumb: @ Eric - Good to hear you are able to borrow the Tyrant! Maybe you can do the same thing with whoever wins the Banner Elf. I've no idea what to recommend for your categories. I do like Eowyn though, she was always my favorire female character from when I read the LOTR books. Good Luck! :thinking: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Thanks for the feedback already Yeah, I figure if the Ogre does well, the guy should be double happy. I'm hoping right now the winner of the Elf Auction will feal the same way, since I don't want to do another piece with so much freehand, but I want to represent freehand on at least one of my minis entered (same with metallics, which I will do on at least one entry) Nathan, that's really funny you should mention it, I think I had already decided it I wasn't going to go with either of those squads I would do repentia, in fact it was one of the reasons I've been recently experimenting with bruises and cuts, which I think would really add something to them If I have time, I'll likely do them, however, if not, I have to decide here (I'm almost possitive only 1 entry per catagory). I am of like mind on that Inquisitor, he might work in a squad, but alone would just show off the rough painting. I'm a little tired of Space Marines, although they do seem popular always. I also checked and it is currently against the rules to use any one elses sculpts or conversions for an entry, so I'm on my own there... Space marines are also probably the easist to convert...Really open to ideas now on 40k entries I'll take a look at Radagast (who was actually always my favorite wizard, haha. Although in single miniatures I think female subjects are a strength for me, so I was even thinking doing another boring Arwen entry here as well Just to get it out of the way. Nathan, like you I'm not overwhelmed by these minis, so I'm thinking more to keep it something simple (single mini) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathan Caroland Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I'm sure the winner of the elf bannerman will loan him out - hell, I'm half tempted to bid the bastard just to get him and give him back to you. I'll check how deep the pockets go on that one. Do the Sisters Repentia, I haven't seen a really good squad of them yet and I think you would get a tickle out of it personally as they are female, plenty of flesh and they have a dark look to them as well that is just begging for abuse like you did for your munchkin. You could always go with something else for the single 40k - my personal feeling is to go with something that perhaps isn't overdone, but then again, you are bucking the trend by going with something that might not be the most 'trendy'. You could always do Ogryn (or however you spell the damnable things) by converting an Ogre to the sci-fi, saw an article on that somewhere. Might make for a nice change. Failing that, how about some chaos female? Get a chance to use some unusual colors and enjoy the hell out of it. As for the LotR stuff, personally I say be different, odds are, everyone is going to go for the same old favorites. In that case, odds are likely in your favor as you can look from one to another and see the difference, but at the same time, a contest with the same miniature all about can be a bit off. Then again, I don't plan on winning squat, so if I was to be honest with you, I would say go for the juggular and just win everything you can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celtic Lilly Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 I'm excited about this, can't wait to see what you come up with. Keep your Elf too I say, or maybe auction it AFTER you go to the GD. It would be worth more then anyhow. Just something to oodle your noodle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green stuff Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Honnestly Eric, I'd advise you to present some new minis. I mean it's really nice of you to want to share your WIPs till the GD, but presenting already seen minis that are starting to date might backfire on you. At GD UK, Jakob presented his Adeptus Custodes for the second time and David W. did also for his ork ... OK they both got a demon, but I was really disappointed by the lack of new stuff on their part. By the way, six months is really short for a GD. I hope you understand that I'm just playing the devil's advocate. When I read your first post, I was surprised by how easy going you sounded. You seemed a lot more motivated when under pressure for the Ogre Tyrant or the Dragyri. By the way, Prophet is doing the Penitent Engine also. Are you two going to the same GD? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Cedric, I know you're right in a lot of ways, and one of the reasons I asked about the pro's & cons before I just posted away. A couple of thoughts on your points. I realize that entries which aren't new will ultimately probably hurt my chances, however the bottom line is that right now I am less worried about this than really learning the process of creating an entry or the project of creating a bunch of entries for an event. I've never been to a GD before or even seen competition level pieces in person, so I really really am in the dark about all of this and just what goes into it. Statues are nice, but I'm still very new to painting at the level I am, and I still have so much to learn. So that's my goal here I also do want to give some of my older work (the tyrant and elf and even maybe a 40k squad) a shot, half because it means I can enter those catagories in this GD and spend my time elsewere, and half because I'd like just to see how they'll do! And, no offense for Nathan here, Wyrd forum is still pretty much a tiny issolated community (with a ton of tallent however!), so I'm not sure if any GD judge or more than just 1 or 2 people who might make the event will even see this thread, lol. So basically I'm just ruining the surprise for all you guys :thumb: All this being said, I am also working on an entry, or entries, which I'm not going to show, in case I make it to a bigger event, such as Baltimore or even UK (there's always the hope!). Thanks for the feedback And as this thread progresses, I'd also love to hear your imput on the pieces, you have far more GD experience than me! Thanks all in advance for the help! -Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 Prophet...I'm not really sure where he lives of if we'd end up at the same GD...although honestly knowing there is another engine in the works if a fun motivation! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green stuff Posted October 12, 2005 Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 He he, I just wanted to get you nervous . Like Silphid says it, the key to a GD is to think up 3 great ideas and then to assume somebody already had them. If you can reinvent your concept then you've got the winning piece; paint wise I have no doubt you'll succeed, all you need now is THE idea . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 12, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2005 so, not to put down US games days...BUT, I'm not really sure that 100% applies here, (maybe it does to Baltimore). However, with my ultimate goal to compete in Europe, I should definately get myself into the habbit of thinking that way! It's this reason I'm less worried about keeping the ideas secret when I'm working on entries for LA Games day, when I am working on entries for tougher events, I will likely be a bit more tight lipped But step one is learning what it takes and geting a feel for it! and that's what this thread is for Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green stuff Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Forgot to say, for your new models, I hope we'll be seeing some of your strong points, ie : reflexive surfaces or OSL. If you have time, I'd advise you to spend more time on surface textures. Although most judges will be happy with a few freehands, if you can give the surface enough "grit", than that will really get you on the podium. It's kind of like "2001 the Space Odyssee" vs "Star Wars". One is clinicaly clean, the other screams realism (but both are good movies ... well maybe not the first 3 episodes of Star Wars ). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 The reflexive surfaces can be a two-sided blade. While it's a unique thing it is DEFINITELY something that only looks right from one angle. Since the judges see the piece in real life the effect might not be as appreciated as when you see the piece in a photograph taken from the right angle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 GS - would you say my painting is too.. "clean" at the moment? Also perhaps that is more an American style thing, and something american judges might be looking for, although maybe is the reason Americans also do very poorly in European competitions. Anders - I thought that as well, since seeing these pieces they definately photo better than they look in person...Although I did see that one piece at the UK GD I think that had you looking into a scene that looked like it was basically in a box so you could only see it from one angle...which might be an option. I definately think I will try to play to my strengths, in fact I am thinking about a piece along the lines of my Tiriel CCV entry, with GW minis of course for perhaps an open catagory piece? Because that piece does actually look good from any angle, since the light source and the shadow are both within the piece. In terms of metalics, I want to be able to enter both nmm and metallics, which I think means a lot more metallic practice (I will try your class soon klute!!), since I think my nmms are much more developed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 ... since I think my nmms are much more developed. You think?? THEN: NOW: Silly boy! :damnmate: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green stuff Posted October 13, 2005 Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 He he, clean is good . But I was, for example, refering to your water reflexion technic. It could IMHO use a bit more ripples, and a bit of semi transparency to see the bottom of the lake. I know I'm asking the moon, but it's these types of details that will be catching the eyes of the judges, and then catching them again and again, ... till their jaws drop . At GD UK, I had an interesting discussion with Sanjay, Mike, Sven, and Sebastian on what the "next effect" that will be big in miniatures. Sanjay was for NMM with "environment mappings" ... Sven said he'd already done it (watch the swedes, they'll baffle more than one of us ). I think it'll rather be ultrarealistic textures (I know, I'm voting for my own country ), but if you've ever held a mini with that kind of details in hand, you'll understand what I mean . Let's take an example; this is one of Allan's minis that I've had the pleasure to hold and see the details up close : http://allanc.art.free.fr/images/images%20figs/klown-post-apokaliptik-1.jpg Forget about the blood soaked cape (not the best part) and the mutant head sculpt for the "clean" comment. In real, that head has ultra-thin veins painted under a very thin skin (I know it doesn't show on the photo ). What I mean is that this mini has different levels to read the details. The first level is perfect blends (which you succeed without a doubt ), but underneath that, you can still see even more details. Basically, what I mean is that I think you have the talent to make a big impact in the US miniature scene. By that I mean more than just making a name. In 1997 during the first French GD, Benoît Menard won the first slayer sword there (he also won it the following year); but it didn't stop there. He inspired the whole french scene, even now. OK ... I'll stop now . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 13, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2005 Cedric, I agree with you about the reflections, the first 2 (and only) times I've did it, was really more just to try to understand the basics of what I was doing, and if you noticed I haven't touched the technique in 5 months or so, mostly because I've been trying adjust my thinking and understanding on it. However I am planning 1 or 2 pieces coming up very soon, (at least one before the end of 2005), which I hope to try to take the idea to the next level. It's been a bit slow because I'm sort of wandering off alone into the dark with it so far, so I don't have other peoples work to feed off of in the process, which would make things way easier... The next big thing...that is a hard one. And while I do think that the layers and sublayers of details are amazing, I don't think it'll be the next big thing, since it may be so difficult that only a few can really pull it off...meaning it won't have quite the same widespread effect as other ideas such as nmm, and osl. I am also skeptical about the environmental mapping in reflective nmm...I am just not sure how well this can be pulled off at this scale. And if it can be, itll be the same issue as I discussed above, so difficult that all but a few could think to try it. I'll think about it...and if I figure it out...I'm not telling!!! (you'll have to wait until UK GD ) Cedric I also very much appreciate your kind words and faith in my painting. Right now I feel I'm still very much learning (thus the reason for this thread), but I do think that the US painting scene could use a kick in the butt, so to speak, and if I can do anything to help, it would be an honor! Duende! now you're compairing metals to nmm! And there is about 2 years between those 2 paint jobs. lol I really appreciate all the ideas here already, you have all given me a ton to think on, keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duende Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Duende! now you're compairing metals to nmm! And there is about 2 years between those 2 paint jobs. lol I really appreciate all the ideas here already, you have all given me a ton to think on, keep it coming! I know it was metallics, but I looked in your gallery and even your old NMM paintjobs are so much better than what I could do on a good day with the help of aliens. :abduct: Another idea for LOTR: Although not a female mini, but how about a flaming Denethor? :flaminghe ( I know, just wrong....) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green stuff Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Another idea for LOTR: Although not a female mini, but how about a flaming Denethor? Excellent idea . But you might want to check the rules for that; due to licencing constraints, conversions have been forbidden for most of the LOTR cats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Cédric, the ultra-realistic surface thing is interesting and something I've began to nibble on. I remember seeing a documentary from one of the LOTR films when one of their artists explained how he painted a model of a dead guy using lots of transparent layers and the result was stunning. I immediately began thinking about how you could apply that in 32 mm scale. However, I'm not sure it could become the next 'big thing', since this kind of effects are so subtle they hardly show up in photos. The picture you showed of Allan's work don't show the skin effect you described and it's still a very good photo. None of my experiments with surface effects show up in photos either. The painting community is to a large extent internet-based and thus relies on photography. Now, I'm not saying it's not worth experimenting with these things! Very much the opposite! It's very interesting and challenging to work with and you can come up with amazing results (I've got a long way to go on this, though...). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
green stuff Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 To a lesser extent, the effect can be seen better here (but the first mini is nicer in real life ); look at the shoulder joints and the gut area : http://www.coolminiornot.com/72904 and here David W. worked more on texture density than transparency : http://www.coolminiornot.com/102863 @Anders : I think you're in the same general movement; your work is always highly detailed and the light contrast builds up the atmosphere in your art, you can sense that it's not going to be a pleasant trip in the forest, even your "good" miniatures are surrounded by dark powers that give the feeling that something gruesome is going to happen to them . Oh, and I think that in the Fellowship documentary they also said they applied that layer effect to Gollum . I had also seen it explained in the Final Fantasy movie documentary. What's interesting is that they are actually applying the oil paint technic . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 ok, so far it seems this technique only gets applied to less "pretty" flesh, zombie-type, nurgle, undead, gollum, etc...it seems that perhaps it's both very difficult to photograph, very difficult to exicute, and has a very limited range of applicable subject matter. I vote against it being the next big thing! I'm not saying it's not super cool however! I've been sort of experimenting along these lines as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ritual Posted October 14, 2005 Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 even your "good" miniatures are surrounded by dark powers that give the feeling that something gruesome is going to happen to them . Everything I touch become tainted and spoiled!! :firedevil Oh, and sorry Eric for sort-of-hijacking your thread! :dancing2: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricJ Posted October 14, 2005 Author Report Share Posted October 14, 2005 Anders, not a worry, I actually see the discussion quite on topic, particualarly since I don't have anything new painted to put up here. Well most of it's on topic, lol Cedric, I just checked, it would seem that Prophet and I would end up at the same event, since we're both in/near the San Fransisco Bay Area, interesting! I hadn't put the handle together with his name. (we have a SF area mini-painting list and he doesn't go by prophet there, lol). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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