McCabe's Treasure Hunter Ability

[Hollow]

Can McCabe use this ability to re-attach an upgrade to himself? Would he gain any Shielded for doing this? Looks similar to Shenlong's Star Pupil trigger, but maybe it's forbidden somehow.

[solkan]

Nah, it should work.  There's a little bit of potential fussiness due to the fact that the mechanics for attaching an upgrade already in play have to implicitly remove the upgrade first (compare the wording to Relic Hunter McCabe's Doling Out the Loot trigger).   But Relic Hunter MCCabe's demise is guilty of the same attaching of an already in play upgrade to someone new, so you're apparently just supposed to make it work...  🙃

Edit: McCabe doing the "Me, myself and I" trick only gets Shield +1.

 

[Hollow]

6 hours ago, solkan said:

Edit: McCabe doing the "Me, myself and I" trick only gets Shield +1.

I think this statement is a bit controversial and better be clarified in the future FAQ. Why can't he count himself twice for the purpose of this ability and resolve the effect twice? Can't find anything similar in FAQ right now. The most alike question I can find is about Exclusive Interview. It's allowed to resolve abilities on the same model being both friendly and enemy.

[Adran]

This works if you are able to detach the upgrade before you check the validity of the target gaining the upgrade, but doesn't work if you check the validity of the target getting the upgrade before you detach the upgrade. I honestly don't know the answer, I don't think its specified anywhere.

A similar question would be could you use treasure hunter to discard an upgrade from McCabe by targeting a model that already had that upgrade attached?

 

 

[santaclaws01]

43 minutes ago, Adran said:

This works if you are able to detach the upgrade before you check the validity of the target gaining the upgrade, but doesn't work if you check the validity of the target getting the upgrade before you detach the upgrade. I honestly don't know the answer, I don't think its specified anywhere.

A similar question would be could you use treasure hunter to discard an upgrade from McCabe by targeting a model that already had that upgrade attached?

 

 

Why would it be checking if the chosen model can attach the upgrade before it actually tries to attach them?

[Hollow]

1 hour ago, Adran said:

A similar question would be could you use treasure hunter to discard an upgrade from McCabe by targeting a model that already had that upgrade attached?

As far as I can see, attaching the second copy of an Upgrade is allowed. McCabe's Upgrades are Plentiful(2). So if, for example, McCabe and Sidir both have a copy of Timeworn Blade, McCabe can attach the second copy to Sidir and Sidir must discards the second one.

Edit: Or not. I don't know 😓The wording is ambiguous. It states that situation is possible, but it's unclear if this Ability can cause it.

[solkan]

On 9/11/2023 at 8:38 AM, Adran said:

This works if you are able to detach the upgrade before you check the validity of the target gaining the upgrade, but doesn't work if you check the validity of the target getting the upgrade before you detach the upgrade. I honestly don't know the answer, I don't think its specified anywhere.

See, for instance:

• LucasMcCabe, Relic Hunter's Demise:  "... Then, Attach all Upgrades on this model to the new model, which then ..."

for other places on cards where effects don't bother to say to discard an upgrade in play before attaching the same upgrade to a model.   And I'm pretty sure no one wants to say "Oh, well, we're not going to try to make that ability work..."

"If one McCabe can do it during demise, why can't the other McCabe do it during an ability?" is what I'm saying.    

[Adran]

6 hours ago, solkan said:

See, for instance:

• LucasMcCabe, Relic Hunter's Demise:  "... Then, Attach all Upgrades on this model to the new model, which then ..."

for other places on cards where effects don't bother to say to discard an upgrade in play before attaching the same upgrade to a model.   And I'm pretty sure no one wants to say "Oh, well, we're not going to try to make that ability work..."

"If one McCabe can do it during demise, why can't the other McCabe do it during an ability?" is what I'm saying.    

That's a different case, in that the upgrades are moving to a model that can't have the upgrades attached already, so it will never matter which order it happens in (and also the fact that the original model is leaving play does change the decision space to make it not matter).

Although, answering this did lead to a revelation (see below)

 

On 9/11/2023 at 3:49 PM, Hollow said:

As far as I can see, attaching the second copy of an Upgrade is allowed. McCabe's Upgrades are Plentiful(2). So if, for example, McCabe and Sidir both have a copy of Timeworn Blade, McCabe can attach the second copy to Sidir and Sidir must discards the second one.

Edit: Or not. I don't know 😓The wording is ambiguous. It states that situation is possible, but it's unclear if this Ability can cause it.

As I read it, if McCabe tried to attach a timeworn blade to Sidir whilst he already held a timeworn blade, the second blade would be discarded and neither would gain shielded. 

This does make me realize at no time would McCabe attach a second copy if he targeted himself, so it is never going to fall foul of this rule. (this always attaches the same copy of the upgrade). 

[SunTsu]

On 9/10/2023 at 7:03 PM, Hollow said:

Can McCabe use this ability to re-attach an upgrade to himself? Would he gain any Shielded for doing this? Looks similar to Shenlong's Star Pupil trigger, but maybe it's forbidden somehow.

A question, just to be clear about it: as I read the ability, if McCabe use that ability to another model that don't have any upgrade attached, McCabe itself would remove the upgrade on itself in order to attach it to the new model. Or it would results in two upgrades from one?

I'm asking this, because that could change the outcome in some ways... 🤔

[Adran]

On 9/27/2023 at 7:49 AM, SunTsu said:

A question, just to be clear about it: as I read the ability, if McCabe use that ability to another model that don't have any upgrade attached, McCabe itself would remove the upgrade on itself in order to attach it to the new model. Or it would results in two upgrades from one?

I'm asking this, because that could change the outcome in some ways... 🤔

I read that as it attaches the same upgrade to the new model, not that it attaches a copy of the upgrade to a new model. 

[SunTsu]

18 minutes ago, Adran said:

I read that as it attaches the same upgrade to the new model, not that it attaches a copy of the upgrade to a new model. 

Exactly what I thought. Essentially is a transfer.

So, finally the main question is about the timing about when you remove the "old" upgrade and when the "new" one is attached.

If the new upgrade is attached when the old one is already in play, you wouldn't be able to attach it to McCabe again. But frankly I can't remember anything leading in that direction, also because if that's the case you could not attach an upgrade you already have 2 in play, that frankly in my mind don't seems the intent of that rule...

A more intuitive way to think about it, is that you detach the previous upgrade in order to attach the next one. But reading the rule as written, my insight is that you attach the very same upgrade to the new model, literally "moving" that specific upgrade from a model (detaching it) to a new model (that attach it).

If we postulate that you cannot attach that upgrade to a model if previously you hadn't detached it, the result is that McCabe should be able to detach an upgrade to attach it again to himself.