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Students of All - font of magic, toss


M33kall

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Hello

I've been wondering if I can perform following actions by using Sandeep Students of All skill on Banasuva:

I activate Sandeep who is in Base contact with Banasuva, discard a card and take action with Banasuva - Toss. Skill Says that im to Draw a LoS and check range from academic (Sandeep in this case) for the purpose of this action. Can Banasuva throw Sandeep in this case? If so, why? 

Next question: the same situation, but Sandeep is now 6" (Max range for Students of all) Apart from Banasuva. Can Banasuva still toss the Sandeep if activate in the same fashion? 

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Yes, you can draw los and range from Sandeep,  but it isn't Sandeep taking the action, so it is fine for him to be the target if its an attack. Following that, since I'm drawing range from Sandeep as long as the target is within 1" of Sandeep ( and los) I can toss them with Banasuva. Sandeep is always within 1" and los of himself. 

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On 3/13/2023 at 1:19 AM, M33kall said:

Can Banasuva throw Sandeep in this case? If so, why? 

If you, or the people you're playing with have played Warmachine/Hordes, the critical difference is that Malifaux doesn't have a notion of "point of origin".  The prohibition for attack actions is simply "A model may not target itself with an Attack Action."

In Warmachine/Hordes, last I checked, the corresponding prohibition was "An attack cannot target its point of origin."  (I forget if the prohibition is on spells specifically, or attacks in general, but either way it applies to the corresponding situation in Warmachine...)  That's what stops a spell caster channelling a spell through an arc node and targeting that same arc node.

It's fair play in Malifaux because that prohibition doesn't exist.  Even though the attack is being measured and line of sight is being drawn from the other model, the rules don't grant any special status to that model, or say to treat that model as the one making the attack.  As a result, you can target the model you're drawing line of sight and measuring range from.  And the line of the sight and range rules state that a model has line of sight to itself and that a model is always in range of itself.

 

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Hello - thank you all for your answers. That does explain that - and to be honest I should have dig deeper through forum. I think that one was also mentioned in a post related to Font of Magic. Yet i still come with question... One infuriating to the extreme. Is Base size (30mm, 50mm) of the hazardous marker considered its trait? Why - i recently had a game in which my oponent argued that, since Sandeep Pyre Marker doesnt have Base size clearly stated I should have used default marker size - 30mm. I did argue that each other Pyre marker on each other card (banasuva, gamin) have 50mm but to no avail. No matter what argument I brought. "It isn't stated so its 30mm" Was the final answer ("but i allow this for this game" Was the other). I did found FAQ about Banasuva Ice Pillar mentioning that all Terrain markers of the same name have the same traits - but still I full expect answer: "Base size is not a trait" Or "if it isn't clearly written in a book or FAQ... ". 

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On 3/23/2023 at 8:22 AM, M33kall said:

Hello - thank you all for your answers. That does explain that - and to be honest I should have dig deeper through forum. I think that one was also mentioned in a post related to Font of Magic. Yet i still come with question... One infuriating to the extreme. Is Base size (30mm, 50mm) of the hazardous marker considered its trait? Why - i recently had a game in which my oponent argued that, since Sandeep Pyre Marker doesnt have Base size clearly stated I should have used default marker size - 30mm. I did argue that each other Pyre marker on each other card (banasuva, gamin) have 50mm but to no avail. No matter what argument I brought. "It isn't stated so its 30mm" Was the final answer ("but i allow this for this game" Was the other). I did found FAQ about Banasuva Ice Pillar mentioning that all Terrain markers of the same name have the same traits - but still I full expect answer: "Base size is not a trait" Or "if it isn't clearly written in a book or FAQ... ". 

When creating/dropping a new marker, all the traits and any properties such as base size have to be the same as any other ones that are mentioned in the game. When you treat a marker (or a model) as (another type of) marker, then the aforementioned object will not change any of its properties. The Wendigo and the Kaltgeists will be Sz2 even though they count as an Ice pillar. The same is with all Scrap and Pit Trap Markers near Sparks. An original Pit Trap will reamain 50 mm and the Srap is 30 mm

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On 3/23/2023 at 8:22 AM, M33kall said:

I did found FAQ about Banasuva Ice Pillar mentioning that all Terrain markers of the same name have the same traits - but still I full expect answer: "Base size is not a trait" Or "if it isn't clearly written in a book or FAQ... ". 

As you wrote, you found the faq that explicitly says all markers of the same name are identical, so there is not possible having two markers with same name with different base size.

That said, the situation wrote about by @King of Draconiss is not a real exception to this general rule: it's true that a model retain all its traits and characteristics even when you count it as a marker (a model you are considering as a scrap/corpse marker doesn't drop its size to 0, neither change its base size), because "counting as a marker" it's not the same as being that marker. So the fact that some models can be treated as a specific marker retaining their stats, it's not a real argument to counter the rule stating all markers of the same name share the same traits.

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