November errata

[Thatguy]

New errata just dropped. Interested so see what you guys think. 

I can't say I'm surprised by the Ophelia Nerf

I think I will have to try Moonshiner out a bit. Seems like a mix of nerf and side grade. Like most of his pushes got larger, if his damage has dropped. 

 

 

[Math Mathonwy]

I think that the changes were probably needed though they seem quite heavy-handed.

I really wish that Brew2 would've received some help against his weaknesses along with the absolutely massive nerfs. I kinda disagree about it being a side grade in that even though the absolute ranges in Pushes might've gone up a bit but the number that he has access to lowered quite drastically so I think it's quite clearly a net loss in his Pushing ability.

That said, both look like valid choices in some situations over to their original versions so they weren't completely gutted, I guess.

But the weirdest part is that the Clampetts look absolutely insane in comparison now and the way that they nerfed the other powerful Burns Masters it really looks like it will be Madness Masters for the next year and a half. It looks like most of the nerfs were against stuff like "this thing also does this additional good thing for no particular reason" and "this randomly has no range restricting it" and Madness stuff is brimming with it.

It's really weird to think that the Burns stuff got through playtesting and then needed these absolutely massive nerfs (Nexus2 for example got hit so incredibly hard) to be balanced and now they do it all over again with Madness.

I also really hoped for some buffs as well. Somer, Wizz-Bang, Wrasslers, McTavish, and so on and so forth.

So I dunno, kinda mixed feelings. I feel that the nerfs hit the correct Masters that were certainly in need of nerfing so this errata should make the game better but I was hoping for a bit more and I'm really really dreading what Madness will do to the balance of this game.

Edit: Oh, and they didn't fix the Pass Token silliness of Brew2+Shojo which I think is the biggest thing wrong with him. So that's a bummer.

[Thatguy]

28 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

 

I really wish that Brew2 would've received some help against his weaknesses along with the absolutely massive nerfs. I kinda disagree about it being a side grade in that even though the absolute ranges in Pushes might've gone up a bit but the number that he has access to lowered quite drastically so I think it's quite clearly a net loss in his Pushing ability.

I think you're mostly right. And I think with doing anything with small pushes like one or two inches, more is probably more important than upgrading to 2-3"

 

Barroom brawl is another interesting mixed bag. Shifting from 1" range to base to base is a major downgrade. But it can now also get pings off of any models not just Tri-chi models. 

I feel like Tri-chi still in a good place. Fermented River monks are still amazing. Whiskey golem is still amazing. Fingers is still great. The rest of the crew is still... there.

30 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

I also really hoped for some buffs as well. Somer, Wizz-Bang, Wrasslers, McTavish, and so on and so forth

I did too. I've heard that some of the stuff was leaked in advance of the errata. I'm hoping we still get some more updates in February erata and this isn't all of it.

31 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Oh, and they didn't fix the Pass Token silliness of Brew2+Shojo which I think is the biggest thing wrong with him. So that's a bummer.

I'm not sure what their options are other than a big Shojo redesign. 

 

[Plaag]

at least this will stop brewy from unresisting denying  and auto scoring

[Math Mathonwy]

22 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Barroom brawl is another interesting mixed bag. Shifting from 1" range to base to base is a major downgrade. But it can now also get pings off of any models not just Tri-chi models. 

But now it's only when Brew moves the model so the number of pings per turn went down from like ten to something like two or so. It's an enormous nerf.

22 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I'm not sure what their options are other than a big Shojo redesign. 

I feel like you could simply put a cap onto how many times you can do it per turn. Wouldn't matter to Youko as she cannot generate enough Poison.

[Plaag]

10 minutes ago, Math Mathonwy said:

But now it's only when Brew moves the model so the number of pings per turn went down from like ten to something like two or so. It's an enormous nerf.

I feel like you could simply put a cap onto how many times you can do it per turn. Wouldn't matter to Youko as she cannot generate enough Poison.

unresisted dmg was another brew problem

now it looks balanced

[Math Mathonwy]

3 minutes ago, Plaag said:

unresisted dmg was another brew problem

now it looks balanced

Yeah, I'm not saying that a nerf wasn't needed - it was an extremely silly ability originally that really shouldn't have passed playtesting.

[Dominion]

And they nerfed the Whiskey Golem too with the changed "Open The Gourd"

the biggest change in Ophelia's Nerfs is now Rami (once again nerfed) cannot double shoot 3/5/6 at 18" 😕 

[Plaag]

also its very hard to read cards before releasing

typo in brew bonus

[GrumpyGrandpa]

7 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I'm not sure what their options are other than a big Shojo redesign. 

I really think they should consider it. It isn’t fun to play with-or-against. Some people were defending it on Discord, but I don’t think it’s good for the game.

I don’t mind the nerfs to Ophelia or Brewie, but I’m so bummed out that they didn’t do anything to push up Somer (1 and/or 2). I get that this errata was focused on bringing down big hitters, but I’m devastated by the fact that we might need to wait 8+ months to see Big Hat on a competitive board.

[Thatguy]

11 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

But now it's only when Brew moves the model so the number of pings per turn went down from like ten to something like two or so. It's an enormous nerf.

You're right. I think it's going to be way more than two though, cuz you can get it off when you Another Round, whenever you hit something with Shiner's Staff, when you get the Reposition trigger, whenever Moonshiner moves and the three Tipsy Slide pushes. 

4 hours ago, GrumpyGrandpa said:

I’m devastated by the fact that we might need to wait 8+ months to see Big Hat on a competitive board.

It's weird how Som'er has gone from the master who launched Bayou as a faction to the redheaded and stepchild.

[ShinChan]

11 hours ago, Plaag said:

at least this will stop brewy from unresisting denying  and auto scoring

I think this was the key. They should had done that and limit the ping of the damage to "Once per activation".

 

11 hours ago, Plaag said:

unresisted dmg was another brew problem

now it looks balanced

Unresisted damage needed to be toned down, but not to this level, let's remember Tri-Chi is one of the 3 keywords in the game with the worst damage tracks/damage output in the game.

 

12 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I think you're mostly right. And I think with doing anything with small pushes like one or two inches, more is probably more important than upgrading to 2-3"

 

Barroom brawl is another interesting mixed bag. Shifting from 1" range to base to base is a major downgrade. But it can now also get pings off of any models not just Tri-chi models. 

I feel like Tri-chi still in a good place. Fermented River monks are still amazing. Whiskey golem is still amazing. Fingers is still great. The rest of the crew is still... there.

I did too. I've heard that some of the stuff was leaked in advance of the errata. I'm hoping we still get some more updates in February erata and this isn't all of it.

I'm not sure what their options are other than a big Shojo redesign. 

 

Shojo is no longer a problem at all, now you don't get much benefits from activation control other that activation control by itself, which other crews just without any effort (Arcanists now have a versatile model that just gives free pass tokens, TT has Youko and Misaki with Jin, ES has Jin).

Bar Room Brawl got hit way more than that, since now only applies to models moved by Brewmaster. So no damage done from Twitching, charges, pushes like drunken stumble or squeal. I understand that what it was before, it was too much, but this is my only complain about the nerfs to Bayou, even with all the damage from before, it was not easy to face many different keywords (or just Guild in general), now the crew won't have any real damage output, while Moon Shinobis, Akanames and Cooper Jones will spend another year without seeing the table.

 

[Plaag]

44 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

I think this was the key. They should had done that and limit the ping of the damage to "Once per activation".

 

Unresisted damage needed to be toned down, but not to this level, let's remember Tri-Chi is one of the 3 keywords in the game with the worst damage tracks/damage output in the game.

 

Shojo is no longer a problem at all, now you don't get much benefits from activation control other that activation control by itself, which other crews just without any effort (Arcanists now have a versatile model that just gives free pass tokens, TT has Youko and Misaki with Jin, ES has Jin).

Bar Room Brawl got hit way more than that, since now only applies to models moved by Brewmaster. So no damage done from Twitching, charges, pushes like drunken stumble or squeal. I understand that what it was before, it was too much, but this is my only complain about the nerfs to Bayou, even with all the damage from before, it was not easy to face many different keywords (or just Guild in general), now the crew won't have any real damage output, while Moon Shinobis, Akanames and Cooper Jones will spend another year without seeing the table.

 

tri-chi is one of the worst dd keywords?

brew1 4/5/6, drunk monks 4/5/6, golem 3/5/6(as i remember), exploid poison just 5dmg

look closer

[ShinChan]

3 minutes ago, Plaag said:

tri-chi is one of the worst dd keywords?

brew1 4/5/6, drunk monks 4/5/6, golem 3/5/6(as i remember), exploid poison just 5dmg

look closer

Brew 1 is reliant on triggers and loading him with poison.
Drunk monks, need to reach there, be alive, and you need a high ram and and 2 poison on a Stat 5 attack. That doesn't come for free. All requires a lot of setup, is pretty telegraphed. Most of the things you mention require setup and depend on other attacks landing first.

Title master: 2/3/4
10ss enforcer: 3/4/6
9ss henchman: 1/3/4 and only if the opponent is engaging someone
8ss henchman: 2/3/4
7ss enforcer: 2/3/4
6ss enforcer: 0
6ss minions: 2/3/4, 0" range
5ss minions: 2/2/3 or 1/2/4
4ss minions: 1/2/3

You look closer, you ain't going to tell someone that has 80 games with Brewie between both version how much damage the keyword does.

 

[Plaag]

11 hours ago, ShinChan said:

Brew 1 is reliant on triggers and loading him with poison.
Drunk monks, need to reach there, be alive, and you need a high ram and and 2 poison on a Stat 5 attack. That doesn't come for free. All requires a lot of setup, is pretty telegraphed. Most of the things you mention require setup and depend on other attacks landing first.

Title master: 2/3/4
10ss enforcer: 3/4/6
9ss henchman: 1/3/4 and only if the opponent is engaging someone
8ss henchman: 2/3/4
7ss enforcer: 2/3/4
6ss enforcer: 0
6ss minions: 2/3/4, 0" range
5ss minions: 2/2/3 or 1/2/4
4ss minions: 1/2/3

You look closer, you ain't going to tell someone that has 80 games with Brewie between both version how much damage the keyword does.

 

monks have stat 7 and  opp will not kill them(i always hire 2-3)

its not hard to find cards with hanch drawing  in average 6 cards with 1 action

so if u look closer again-u will see that crew like this

New The Brewmaster Crew (Bayou)
Size: 50 - Pool: 9
Leader:
  The Brewmaster+coffe
Totem(s):
  Apprentice Wesley
Hires:
  Fermented River Monk
  Fermented River Monk 2
  Fingers Leong
  Popcorn Turner
  Whiskey Golem
References:
  In the Eye of the Beer-Holder
  Fermented River Style

have very big amount of dmg

also include pings, blood poisoning, additional dmg from poison on master and turner

u need to play more with him and try to maximize dmg

[Thatguy]

I think monks are one of the best minions in in the game. One of the rare minions that you will always bring two or three of. But I don't really think of them is damaged dealers.  If you don't get that high Ram, they aren't doing much offensively. 

Because a 2-in engagement and drunken stumble is so good defensively, I'm rarely pushing them into base to base on the off chance I can flip a ram.

8 hours ago, Plaag said:

Popcorn Turner

I'm interested in why you like him. I always leave him at home because he seems like a model in a poison focused crew that doesn't actually hand out poison. I mean you can with Shower Booze and The Hooch didn't ignite, but it seems like you're chewing through soulstones if you want to make it happen consistently.

[Jesy Blue]

I've only found Popcorn useful in HH.  He's fast and that's about it.

I always take 2 FRM, usually I give them Inferiority Complex, as Bully gives them that Ram on small scheme runners to one shot them.  Also, Too Drunk To Care and a Trusty Flask make them so durable that I will taken them into the Terrifying or Manipulative beater with no fear, using a combination of Chi, Poison, and free Focus. It all comes down to how you run them. 

"Get you someone who can do both."

Tri-Chi did!

[Thatguy]

7 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

usually I give them Inferiority Complex, as Bully gives them that Ram on small scheme runners to one shot them. 

This is a neat idea. I usually think about it only on more expensive 7+ ss models, but it's a neat idea. I'll have to remember it when I'm facing off with a crew with a lot of 5ss or less minions.

9 minutes ago, Jesy Blue said:

Too Drunk To Care and a Trusty Flask make them so durable that I will taken them into the Terrifying or Manipulative beater with no fear,

They're so good at tanking, it's nuts. With a stack of poison they can hold up beaters almost twice their cost for the whole game.

[Plaag]

5 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I think monks are one of the best minions in in the game. One of the rare minions that you will always bring two or three of. But I don't really think of them is damaged dealers.  If you don't get that high Ram, they aren't doing much offensively. 

Because a 2-in engagement and drunken stumble is so good defensively, I'm rarely pushing them into base to base on the off chance I can flip a ram.

I'm interested in why you like him. I always leave him at home because he seems like a model in a poison focused crew that doesn't actually hand out poison. I mean you can with Shower Booze and The Hooch didn't ignite, but it seems like you're chewing through soulstones if you want to make it happen consistently.

he have blood poisoning

also can ping dmg with masks, can give additional condition, have aura to give additional dmg to poison

good mobile model with beer gogles

and abt monks-they have stat 7 on atack-u should think more abt them as dd

[Thatguy]

On 12/16/2022 at 3:24 PM, Plaag said:

-they have stat 7 on atack-u should think more abt them as dd

That's a good point. I tend to be spending the chi defensively.

I'll definitely try playing the more aggressively.

[Rufess]

Seems like I am the only one on earth who has concern, but I still want to share these numbers I found in the errata.

 

Lost Knowledge

• Card drawing: 2 cards
• Card required: 5+
• Action required: 1~2 Action
• Activation required: 1~2 model

Raiding Operation(2 targets)

• Card drawing: 2 cards
• Card required: 6+
• Action required: 3 Bonus Action
• Activation required: 3 models

Raiding Operation(3targets)

• Card drawing: 3 cards
• Card required: 8+
• Action required: 4 Bonus Action
• Activation required: 4 models

 

So all numbers in Raiding Operation are greater than Lost Knowledge, it must be a straight up better Action.🙃

[Maniacal_cackle]

1 hour ago, Rufess said:

Seems like I am the only one on earth who has concern, but I still want to share these numbers I found in the errata.

 

Lost Knowledge

• Card drawing: 2 cards
• Card required: 5+
• Action required: 1~2 Action
• Activation required: 1~2 model

Raiding Operation(2 targets)

• Card drawing: 2 cards
• Card required: 6+
• Action required: 3 Bonus Action
• Activation required: 3 models

Raiding Operation(3targets)

• Card drawing: 3 cards
• Card required: 8+
• Action required: 4 Bonus Action
• Activation required: 4 models

 

So all numbers in Raiding Operation are greater than Lost Knowledge, it must be a straight up better Action.🙃

Models vary in how good they are at any particular task, but I think you will find Sammy draws cards a lot better than most Lost Knowledge models xD

[Thatguy]

Raiding Operation is worse at drawing cards than Lost Knowledge.

It is however way better at summoning Young LaCroix than Lost Knowledge. 😎