Help bayou zoraida

[extremor]

Hello. A Friend of mine starts with bayou zoraida. We both don’t know how to Build a List for bayou zoraida and what is really Necessairy He has the following models: (a weird combination i know)

New Zoraida Crew (Bayou)
Leader:
  Zoraida
Hires:
  Bad Juju
  McTavish
  Adze
  Waldgeist
  Will o' the Wisp
  Will o' the Wisp 2
  Will o' the Wisp 3
  Silurid
  Silurid 2
  Silurid 3
  Gautraeux Bokor
References:
  Voodoo Doll

How important are the kurgan, grootslang or the First Mare? Or the spawn mother and all the other stuff. Or the emissary???
Wowww the keyword is really huge. …

 

[TimH]

Well not having the gators from the McTavish box is no great loss, they aren't good.

Grootslang is cool but he costs a lot for what he is so he's not a priority, same for Spawn Mother (gupps are only ever really summoned off of her too). First Mate is unfortunately something of a must have but luckily your friend is playing Bayou and not NB and so they will at least have the start of a ZIpp crew down the line if they grab that box. Kurgan feels like a lot more of a Zoraida mothwitch model than a Zoraida model. I'd avoid it for the time being as Mothwithc is a very expensive and unfriendly list to purchase and base Zoraida is still very good (Mothwitch is partially a summoner and her summoning pool is spread across every faction including every effigy, mannequins (but not Coryphee) and a couple of the smaller NB puppets.

As for versatiles I play in NB so I can't say for certain what you want, but you definitely want some Bayou Gremlins for when they get summoned off of Two Gremlin's in a Ghillie suit. Maybe Gracie or the Mechanical pork chop as an obey target? Gracie also has Ride With me for helping move the very slow Zoraida around a little without her spending ap on walks, Prokchop drops scrap markers for McTavish to eat? Really not sure what (if anything) you want for that obey target role in Bayou.

[Math Mathonwy]

First, Zoraida is an excellent Master to start with. She will take quite a few games to learn thoroughly and get used to her playstyle and tricks but she is extremely versatile, can work in any Strat and against any other Master. She can work with an elite force where her Obey is a force multiplier or she can work with Silurids and be very schemey dancing around the opponent.

The collection that your friend has is perfectly fine to start with so I would suggest playing a couple of games with her before buying anything more. Now, that set of minis does kinda lack in heavy hitters so the shemey dance is probably what you'll be doing but it can be a very powerful playstyle.

As for the minis themselves, Bad Juju is a fine beater. He does have his weaknesses but I do like him. Adze is a tricky model to use but has performed well for me whenever I've taken him. Just needs very careful play and picking the right targets to engage with. He is a sidelines harasser that bullies the enemy schemers.

Silurids are absolute money but again need care in use. Three is a lot, one or two is more common to include in a list. If your friend is handy with green stuff, adding a cap to one and giving it an anchor and a cigar can make you an excellent First Mate pretty easily. You might be able to find a suitable anchor for cheap as a pendant. Just make sure to use the correct size base for him.

Willowisps are pretty strange. One is fantastic for tormenting the Voodoo Doll but they are paper thin.

Gautreaux Bokor was nerfed massively in the latest errata and he really isn't what he used to be. He is kinda fine but Zoraida is already a support Master so including lots of support models with her is always very awkward.

Waldgeist has always been a bit strange in Zoraida. They don't seem to have a clear role with her but they aren't awful by any means so testing one is certainly sound. McTavish is in dire need of some buffing but he isn't unusable just a bit lacking in stats and durability.

Depending on the strat and schemes, a core list from that collection could be Zoraida, Bad Juju, Wisp, two Silurids, and then test the other models and see how you like them. If you do convert a First Mate, replace one of the Silurids with him.

[TeddyBear]

I'll be brutally honest, Zoraida to perform at her best in the bayou needs some out ofkeywords/versatiles. There is no alternative. Because bayou swampfiends, are situational, meaning you choose them for a certain schemes, or in combination with other pieces. His keyword as you rightly noted is really huge.

That doesn't mean there isn't a way to have fun trying to use the pieces you have and maybe be successuful in games.

The best advice I can give you is to try with what you have, if you're not satisfied maybe try to play a few games by proxing the pieces: it won't be the best aesthetically, but even just some bases will be enough.

as regards your question, you will only be able to realize by playing, which pieces are better and their best uses based on the schemes and strategies you will play 🙂

[SEV]

22 hours ago, TimH said:

Well not having the gators from the McTavish box is no great loss, they aren't good.

Gators are really good ! McTavish is pure jank but you can do a lot of mileage with the gators. They're part of a nice all-stealth list (with Silurid and TFM).

My suggestion : convert one of your Silurid in TFM (easy) or buy Zipp box.

Even with TFM you'll need an other beater (Juju is ok, but really struggle in a lot of matchup).

if you plan to buy Zipp already, go for Mancha. The Emissary is always nice to have. If you buy in to Ophelia, I think Raphael is now a better OOk choice than Frank since it's nerf. 

You can also go mini wizz-bang with Alphonse + Samy + Bokor (24 pts) and feel with KW models.

The new Auntie from the antler KW has a lot of potential as well.

 

[Thatguy]

19 hours ago, SEV said:

Even with TFM you'll need an other beater (Juju is ok, but really struggle in a lot of matchup).

After the Nerf I don't really think of the first mate as a beater anymore. More like an upgraded Slurid.

19 hours ago, SEV said:

The Emissary is always nice to have. If you buy in to Ophelia, I think Raphael is now a better OOk choice than Frank since it's nerf. 

I think that after the recent nerfs, The Whiskey Golem is probably our best beater. Especially if you're not expecting a whole lot of anti armor, which you probably won't see if you declare Zorida. He competes with Zorida for Masks, but that's true of  TFM too. 

[extremor]

Thank you all. 
why is tavish considered crap? He Looks all right to me. Not particularly Good but allright. is juju better?

[SEV]

McTavish is extremely squeeshy : 5/5 no defense tech is horrible for a 9ss model. 

Even though his gun ignore FF and concealment (wich is good) it's only stat 5 and super vulnerable to cover.

His melee attack is fine, but he'll melt in combat so he is reduced to prey on easy kill/scheme runner... And TFM will do that as well but more efficiently and with more survivability.

Toss in the mud with no trigger is useless 90% of the time. 

Gator snack is annoyingly RNG but is fine. Swampscreen is ok.

This is really bad for 9ss... I think he's in the top 5 of the worst henchman in the game...

 

 

[Thatguy]

15 minutes ago, extremor said:

why is tavish considered crap?

It's mostly that is an expensive model that doesn't fit any niche really well.

He's got a pretty good melee attack, but no ability to generate more than two attacks a turn himself. Also he doesn't really have defensive tech to stay stuck in. 

Range wise, he's a 9 ss henchmen with a stat 5 mediocre ranged attack. 

 

I think he suffers a little bit from Zorida henchman syndrome. Because Zorida is so good at feeding your models extra AP, a lot of them kind of have to be bad at their job to not be OP. Hence why TFM got nerfed.

[Scoffer]

On 12/9/2022 at 7:55 PM, extremor said:

Thank you all. 
why is tavish considered crap? He Looks all right to me. Not particularly Good but allright. is juju better?

Juju is a waste of stones too. 

[Adran]

On 12/9/2022 at 4:55 PM, extremor said:

Thank you all. 
why is tavish considered crap? He Looks all right to me. Not particularly Good but allright. is juju better?

In general the biggest problem with both of them is that the questions they ask the opponent are fairly easy to answer for an experienced opponent. So they often do ok in early games, but their effectiveness will tail off as the people facing them get better.  

[Thatguy]

5 hours ago, Scoffer said:

Juju is a waste of stones too. 

Juju is totally okay. He's an okay beater and outlet for Zorida ap. With hard to wound, eternal, regeneration and a 2" engagement it's a pretty good tar pit. Not as good to say Montresor but that guy is nuts. 

What do you think he needs to be worth his cost? 

[Scoffer]

8 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Juju is totally okay. He's an okay beater and outlet for Zorida ap. With hard to wound, eternal, regeneration and a 2" engagement it's a pretty good tar pit. Not as good to say Montresor but that guy is nuts. 

What do you think he needs to be worth his cost? 

Terrifying could help. With df3 everything can hit him without cheating. It means that Juju drains your resources (cards and stones) to stay alive. Terrifying would make opponent spend his resources.