Sly "Six-Shots" and a request for general Perdita advice

[Radish]

Hello!  I am new to Malifaux and trying to wrap my head around the scheming aspect of the game which is the part I'm really struggling with.  I have a full Perdita crew (and both Perditas) and I'm trying to make it work as without buying too much more since I don't have a lot of time for painting right now. 

I'm a little unclear as to how to use Sly effectively since he seems designed solely for scheming but only kinda "eh" at it.  From what I've read his false claim ability is the star of his card but I'm not really getting how to use it in the Family crew.  It's still only one action for one scheme token by the end of the turn for scoring and the triggers are very situational; 25% chance a family member can get a free shot but if he's off scheming on the opponent's side of the board that seems like it might not happen half the time, and 25% a nice teleport but requires blocking terrain.

Is the trick to using him using false claim to stick two tokens in the target zone for a scheme and then use some other model to place a token anywhere else allowing that random one to be removed at the end of turn?

I'm just a little confused why he would be used instead of making an extra 5 points of room for the Pale Rider for instance that is just as quick getting across the board (and doesn't require situations to use its extra movement abilities), can defend itself much better versus models hunting down schemers, and has other benefits such as ruthless along with Revel in Conflict.  Both of them are still placing one scheme per action and False Claim has a chance for failure.

I'm thinking about something like this:

• Perdita Ortega, Neverborn Hunter
  • 4 Soulstones
• Enslaved Nephilim
• Francisco Ortega
• Santiago Ortega 
• Nino Ortega
• Abuela Ortega
• Monster Hunter
• Pale RIder

or

• Perdita Ortega, Neverborn Hunter
  • 6 Soulstones
• Enslaved Nephilim
• Francisco Ortega
• Santiago Ortega 
  • Lead Lined Coat
• Nino Ortega
• Abuela Ortega
• Papa Loco

I'm just confused since I feel like I'm missing the benefit of Sly or some trick because I feel like he is outclassed so significantly even coming under 5 points than the Rider at the one thing he is designed to do.  Any advice for be really helpful!

 

 

 

[Amateur Contender]

I've only played Sly once and he felt underwhelming. Though, to be fair, I definitely positioned him in a way that he was out of LOS from the rest of the Family and couldn't take advantage of Gun Runner. 

 

He seems to me to want to hang around the fight without actually getting into it. Gun Runner means that everytime someone shoots (which you'll be doing a lot of) Sly gets to move 2". I imagine that activating him near the end of the turn puts him in an advantageous position to False Claim where he wants or to Interact without having to waste AP moving. Bravado is amazing, but it's limited in the fact that it only allows models to move towards enemies models. Gun Runner, Escape Plan, and Squeal gives you more control over where Sly goes outside of his activation. 

 

Given his low stats and health, I don't think he wants to be anywhere without support. So moving him all by his lonesome to the enemy deployment zone might not be the right move. 

 

And you're absolutely right about False Claim (at least, in my experience). Dropping scheme markers early on in the game gives you a reserve to pull from when you use your false claim. This play *should* make it easy to pull off Sabotage or Set the Trap. It does feel that hitting the Triggers for False Claim seem like a long shot, but remember that if you using Bravado around Perdita gives you amazing card cycling. This *should* give Sly a better chance to hit those False Claim Triggers. *Should*. 

 

But like I said earlier, I've only fielded the guy once with lackluster results. All of this is probably just a bad interpretation of his card. 

 

I haven't directly hired a Monster hunter into my crew. Every game I've played I've been able to Summon a Pistolero and Replace it with a Monster Hunter. Have you thought about swapping it out with a Guild Mage instead? Their Glory of the Guild Ability is bonkers with the Family. You're going to be discarding cards left and right with Bravado, meaning you get to keep Santiago and Frank alive that much longer to do what they do. 

[Radish]

Thanks for the advice!!  I'll give Sly another try and be more aggressive with dropping schemes preemptively in the backfield.  I think I need him to have some sort of escort but Perdita and family really seems like they want to clump up somewhat to be effective.

I haven't thought about a guild mage yet.  Reading over they seem not bad but I don't really see any way to buy them.  

I am curious if anyone has had luck with Pale Rider in a Perdita list.  A lot of the advice I've seen about him online was before he got errataed. 

[Antipodean]

The advantage of false claim is that it isn't  an interact... so you can do it while engaged, after disengaging, close to other friendly scheme markers etc. This means you can scheme much more frequently.

[Adran]

4 hours ago, Antipodean said:

The advantage of false claim is that it isn't  an interact... so you can do it while engaged, after disengaging, close to other friendly scheme markers etc. This means you can scheme much more frequently.

Except you can't do it while engaged, but the rest are true. It's certainly one of the best and easiest ways to get multiple scheme markers near a certain place. 

[ShinChan]

Sly is pretty good.

Obviously the Pale Rider is going to be more versatile, but it also costs almost double 😅 Sly can operate outside of Dita2's bubble and he's really difficult if not straight up impossible to pin down.

If you need him to survive, he's a good candidate for a LLC and then he can just go where he pleases, because between armor, flinch and the printed squeal trigger it will be very difficult to the opponent to take him down.

[Amateur Contender]

Pale Rider is awesome. I don't think you'll find a guild player who would say otherwise. His Ride With Me can help get Francisco where you want him without using up his AP to move. Those triggers are buh-rutal. Being able to hand out mass damage/heal without saving throws is a game changer when turn 3 comes around. He tends to attract a lot of aggro because of this, but that will only give the rest of the crew breathing room to do what they wanna do. Obviously Stun is his worst enemy, so be wary of crews that easily hand the condition. 

 

If you haven't already, you should check out the Harlefaux show. This have a nice deep dive into the Family. 

 

[Amateur Contender]

17 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

Sly is pretty good.

Obviously the Pale Rider is going to be more versatile, but it also costs almost double 😅 Sly can operate outside of Dita2's bubble and he's really difficult if not straight up impossible to pin down.

 

It sounds like you've had a good experience fielding him. Are there any tips or tricks when it comes to playing Sly? Or is he just straight forward and I've completely misunderstood him? 

[ShinChan]

Just now, 11Anthonyc said:

It sounds like you've had a good experience fielding him. Are there any tips or tricks when it comes to playing Sly? Or is he just straight forward and I've completely misunderstood him? 

I don't play Dita, but I've played against Dita2 more times that I would like to xD

He's pretty straight forward. In a map with a bunch of blocking terrain, he can just move around dropping scheme markers exactly where you need them with little effort while the rest of your crew scores other points and murders the enemy.

Also, it's not a big deal if you lose a 6ss model after he did his job.

[Amateur Contender]

On 11/28/2022 at 7:24 PM, 11Anthonyc said:

I haven't directly hired a Monster hunter into my crew. Every game I've played I've been able to Summon a Pistolero and Replace it with a Monster Hunter.

One thing to think about with your Pistolero is that it may not be beneficial to upgrade them to Monster Hunters when you get the chance. When you replace a Pistolero the Upgrade Card gets Attached to the Monster Hunter, triggering all that fun text at the top of the card. This means your new Monster Hunter will get Slow and Shielded +1. It may not be worth it if your model needs that extra AP to move somewhere or to interact. 

[Amateur Contender]

16 minutes ago, ShinChan said:

I don't play Dita, but I've played against Dita2 more times that I would like to xD

He's pretty straight forward. In a map with a bunch of blocking terrain, he can just move around dropping scheme markers exactly where you need them with little effort while the rest of your crew scores other points and murders the enemy.

Also, it's not a big deal if you lose a 6ss model after he did his job.

I can absolutely see him exceling in a map lousy with Impassable Terrain. 

One thing I overlooked is his Black Market Arms Trigger: That's two scheme markers AND an attack AND a 2" move for Sly.

[Antipodean]

On 12/3/2022 at 12:00 AM, Adran said:

Except you can't do it while engaged, but the rest are true. It's certainly one of the best and easiest ways to get multiple scheme markers near a certain place. 

You are correct, I had forgot the restriction on the action. Been a time since I played Elite where I usually take at least one.

Pale Rider fits into almost any crew well... quite possibly the best rider of the 4 in general. But that is why he is the most expensive in faction too.