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Looking into Nekima


Funinyourgame

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Keeping it short, i've tried Pandora and even if I do love the Misery ability, I dislike the  "bubble" playstyle.

Next in line for some chip damage passive is Nekima. I do like the grow token ability and the black blood effect, but I'm not sure how much of a "Bubble" playstyle she is.
Also not sure between Nekima 1-2, I really like the idea of the grow token, to end up with "Free" beaters, but I'm not sure which would feel better.

I tend to play my list as seperate "Squads" like, usually splitting in 3 groups. Not sure if it is a good playstyle, but that is how my brain seems to go towards, even if I try to do something else.

I know it may seem confusing, so feel free to ask me clarifications.

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Not played extensively with N1 but found I spread out a lot.

N2 I've played 1 game, but found about 50% of my crew stayed bubbley with the other 50% spreading out.

N2 seems to want to bubble up to take advantage of the built on grow stuff they can do themselves and also for Nekimas summon attack. Just one game though so limited experience

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Sword Maiden Nekima is more than happy to not play like a bubble. She basically needs Inhuman Reflexes stapled to her card, since her ability to multi-charge allows her to stack up Blade Rush damage, and Scamper lets her stiff-arm 1 inch reach foes, which is a focus on mobility rather than being within a bubble of yourself. In my experience her most effective builds involve hiring two Matures. Modern Shamans also encourage the hiring of at least one Terror Tot so you can take advantage of Ancient Ritual's contribution to the growth cycle, and in my opinion are essential for Nekima as the keyword lives and dies by forcing stones/cheats with focused attacks from Nekima and her Matures. This typically leaves you with a slot for an 8-9 cost model, and you can make the choice between a helpful versatile such as Serena if you need the armor pen/condition removal, or something in keyword like the Noxious Nephilim whose card cycling effect on being damaged and HtW makes him an ideal Knife target for a Shaman, whom you'd use to carve off corpses for Ancient Ritual and/or growth, or Hayreddin whose basically-Min-5, Revitalizing Ichor, and ability to cause Tots on black blood death are quite helpful tools to have.
Overall, once you've finished what I call your initial "Nephilim huddle" actions, you're good to separate and fight where you need to be. Teach Them Fear is a good aura, but not a must-have to fight near Nekima for. Enraged by Insolence is a nice consolation prize for keyword death, but just as often that last point of damage from Blood for Blood is just as impactful.
Broodmother is less solved for me, the strongest attack action without Sword Maiden then becomes Hayreddin, and he's harder to keep alive, since his value far outstrips his tankiness. She needs Matures to serve as her front line, but doesn't want to hire them because she can grow into them, but a focus on growth loses you board control (since Nekima's actions are spent supporting her crew, rather than being a threat) and then wants to win by more or less, a war of attrition. With current rules devaluing the impact of summons on strategies, I'm not sure I rate her highly at all. That being said, there are people who find success with Broodmother, and I'm not saying they're wrong, but I personally haven't been able to unlock her potential to the same extent as Sword Maiden.

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Thank you very much

I was looking into Nekima 2 and might have found a good combo, but I'll focus on a basic list first before checking if my theory list works.
 

Quote

Overall, once you've finished what I call your initial "Nephilim huddle" actions, you're good to separate and fight where you need to be...

Mind clarifying what you mean by "Nephilim huddle"

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7 minutes ago, Adran said:

I think that is them all standing close enough to get focus from the pulse of the shamen.  

Or shawomen 😉

But yes, Adran's got it right. Typically your Blood Hunter pukes up a corpse for your Shaman to Ancient Ritual off of, who will then step on that marker when they charge your Noxious (or whoever, but for sure not your matures because combat finesse doesn’t distinguish friend-or-foe and you want to be able to cheat at least one mask trigger for your Tot to eat) and you need your crew to be real tightly packed for the 2 inch pulse of focused that comes from the Shaman. After that, go nuts. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

So I just tried a quick match with the following list
SS pool: 6
Leader: Nekima, Broodmother (2)
Totem(s): Blood Hunter inhuman reflexe (Ignore because bad decision)
Hires:
Black Blood Shaman Ancient Pact
Mature Nephilim Ancient Pact
Young Nephilim
Young Nephilim 2
Terror Tot
Terror Tot 2

I fought agaisn't Dashel 1 Guard Guild with an extra Disease Containement Unit, he was summoning like crazy.
I think I got a bad match up since Guard loves to use your own Corpse markers and he can summon better units then I can.
I feel I should drop my upgrades to only 1 Ancient Pact and add 1 extra Young Nephilim. I did enjoy the hundle up and replacing a YN on turn 1, 3 free SS.

Any extra tips to be "better" with Nekima? I really enjoy the grow mechanic, but I feel I'm doing something wrong.
If I play first, it never feels like I can jump in without my opponent focusing down my beaters. But if I don't go first, it feels like I'm loosing way too much ground for very little pay out.

I use Fly with me a lot, so at least I'm doing something right :P

TL:DR
Basic (Bad) list and I need help to get better :)

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I'm interested in feedback too. I think Nekima might be my next Master. Broodmother looks like a lot of fun, and looks like it would play a lot like Som'er used to. 

Hayreddin and Vasilisa seen like top picks with Broodmother. 

Hayreddin punches hard, but seems amazing with Newkima's ability to drop a Terror Tot wherever. With swift reflexes he can potentially Black Blood pustule off the newly summoned tot 4 times for 4 damage in a big area with no resist. You might get more Tots out of it too. Cruel Teachings increases the chances of successfully summoning from Life From Blood. 

Vanilla seems great too for extra healing and speeding up growth. With Pulling The Strings she can help grow a Tot to a Mature in a single round. Pulling The Strings combos well with Broodmother's Birthright ability.

 

 

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  • 2 weeks later...

After discussing with a friend (Also the player that destroyed my crew with Dashel), we concluded that the Mature Nephilim are not worth adding in the crew, it would be better to get more Young nephilim and transform them through grow tokens.

We also find weird that the Nephilims are the only unit that doesn't get healed after being replaced. I wouldn't mind if they could use Grim feast to grow and then get healed or something similar.

Lastly, Am I the only one really disapointed by the Blood Hunter? It the only unit that doesn't use or generate grow beside it corpse generation and even this is lame when compared to many other totems. I believe it would help a lot to give him the same ability as the Botanist "Feed me!" it would make it a squishy glass canon that still helps Nekima's crew beside just be a weak corpse generator.

I could also be looking at Nekima's crew the wrong way. I just feel like there is a few tweak needed, to help the grow play style of Nekima 2

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19 hours ago, Funinyourgame said:

Am I the only one really disapointed by the Blood Hunter?

I think the bloodhunter is pretty great. He gets you a corpse for that early game huddle.

He can also put out a significant amount of damage, without any resists. Like with Brood Mother he can charge something  in Cruel Teachings range, and between Stampede, failing two attacks and Regurgitation he can put out 4 damage, some of it in a pulse, with no way to stop it. Yes, it kills him but you put out a bunch of damage and dropped a couple corpses for your crew. The stampede +Regurgitation is also a good way to finish off models in Hayreddin's Life From Blood aura.

I think of him a lot like Nico's vulture. It's job is mostly to eat AP and die while leaving a corpse somewhere. But, like Piglets, the Blood Hunter can also do some surprising damage for an expendable model.

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Also worth noting that 2/4/5 is a VERY competitive damage track, and it often seems like they got the power budget wrong on 2/4/5 models.

With focus (or puncture), those mod 4s are super efficient. And even on a negative, you've got over a 1/3 chance of just flipping double moderates. I've had one of my masters chunked by an enemy blood hunter before xD

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I feel I get value out of the pig nearly every game.

If my opponent goes after it, that's actions not spent against my other models, and I get a corpse and maybe som black blood damage on the opponents crew. If he doesn't go after it, I usually get at least one attack with focus on a relevant model before my opponent realises the error and kills it (and splashes black blood on everyone, and leaves a corpse or two).

It's not a Chompy level totem, and it's not supposed to be, but it is far from a bad model.

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  • 3 months later...

English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse me for any mistakes I might make.

The models with Relish in Blood can choose not to grow after getting the Token, so we can stack 2 tokens on a terror tot, and then get Ancient Ritual again in turn 2. With 3 Tot, 2 Shaman and enough corpses(provided by Black Blood Shaman or Noxious or Hayreddin). Nekima2 can grow 3 Sz 3 Nephilims in turn 2.

Turn 1 with 7 tokens (6 corpses needed):

4 Grim Feast(including 1 tot summoned this turn)

2 Ancient Ritual

1 Only the Strong Survie (with Vicious Vitality)

Two tots should hold the tokens for turn 2.

Ideally we should have a Young Nephilim(we need one tot to grow because of the model limt of Terror Tot) with 0 token. 2 tots with 2 tokens and 1 tot with 1 token.

I've practiced this opening for several times, it is not hard, but it really needs some practice. Remember to use Bloody Banner if able.

Plan carefully for each activation, the sequence is not fixed. Sometimes we need Hayreddin to use stones and sometimes 2 Black Blood Shaman can drop 4 corpses.

And be careful with the 4HP Young Nephilim, without Protected, it is just one shot away from death.

Turn 2 with 8 tokens (7 corpses needed, ideally)

The Young Nephilim with 0 token can get 2 tokens by Grim Feast and Only the Strong Survie (with Vicious Vitality).

2 tots with 2 tokens can get 2 tokens for each by Ancient Ritual (remember to grow after the Ancient Ritual) and Grim Feast. Pay attention to the activations, because the Ancient Ritual need to be applied before the Grim Feast.

1 tots with 1 token can get 1 token by Grim Feast.

1 tot summoned this turn can get 1 token by Grim Feast.

The first 7HP Mature will be killed in late turn 2 in most cases, so we can grow the second and the third one to maintain the pressure.

Or we can grow a Cavern if we were lucky.

I've played this list about 3-4 times. The turn 2 requires a lot of improvisation without disrupting the buff chain.

What do you think of this idea?

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On 2/17/2023 at 4:25 PM, RayIch said:

English is not my mother tongue, so please excuse me for any mistakes I might make.

The models with Relish in Blood can choose not to grow after getting the Token, so we can stack 2 tokens on a terror tot, and then get Ancient Ritual again in turn 2. With 3 Tot, 2 Shaman and enough corpses(provided by Black Blood Shaman or Noxious or Hayreddin). Nekima2 can grow 3 Sz 3 Nephilims in turn 2.

Turn 1 with 7 tokens (6 corpses needed):

4 Grim Feast(including 1 tot summoned this turn)

2 Ancient Ritual

1 Only the Strong Survie (with Vicious Vitality)

Two tots should hold the tokens for turn 2.

Ideally we should have a Young Nephilim(we need one tot to grow because of the model limt of Terror Tot) with 0 token. 2 tots with 2 tokens and 1 tot with 1 token.

I've practiced this opening for several times, it is not hard, but it really needs some practice. Remember to use Bloody Banner if able.

Plan carefully for each activation, the sequence is not fixed. Sometimes we need Hayreddin to use stones and sometimes 2 Black Blood Shaman can drop 4 corpses.

And be careful with the 4HP Young Nephilim, without Protected, it is just one shot away from death.

Turn 2 with 8 tokens (7 corpses needed, ideally)

The Young Nephilim with 0 token can get 2 tokens by Grim Feast and Only the Strong Survie (with Vicious Vitality).

2 tots with 2 tokens can get 2 tokens for each by Ancient Ritual (remember to grow after the Ancient Ritual) and Grim Feast. Pay attention to the activations, because the Ancient Ritual need to be applied before the Grim Feast.

1 tots with 1 token can get 1 token by Grim Feast.

1 tot summoned this turn can get 1 token by Grim Feast.

The first 7HP Mature will be killed in late turn 2 in most cases, so we can grow the second and the third one to maintain the pressure.

Or we can grow a Cavern if we were lucky.

I've played this list about 3-4 times. The turn 2 requires a lot of improvisation without disrupting the buff chain.

What do you think of this idea?

If you really want to play the grow-game, you probably should bring Vasilisa to get that 2'nd grim feast on a young nephilim. (She also has "move along" that bumps mv up to 7. With df/wp 6, armour +2, and one of the best self heals in the game, she brings tankyness to a very squishy crew.)

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Here's an example of using Vasilisa in the grow engine.

Grow strong (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Nekima, Broodmother (Nek)
Totem(s):
  Blood Hunter (Pig)
Hires:
  Terror Tot (tot1)
  Terror Tot 2 (tot2)
  Black Blood Shaman (S1)
    Ancient Pact
  Black Blood Shaman 2 (S2)
    Ancient Pact
  Vasilisa (V)
  Noxious Nephilim (NN)
  Terror Tot 3 (tot3)

Ideal activation order

Turn 1:

  • Pig makes corpse near NN
  • S1 charge NN-gives tot1 token-makes 2 corpses.
  • S2 charge NN-gives tot2 token-makes 2 corpses
  • V puts out a scheme-use scheme to make tot1 take grim feast and turn into young(Y1)
  • Nek gives token to tot2 to grow it into a young(Y2)- makes 2 corpses and summons tot4
  • Y1 use grim feast to gain a token
  • Y2 use grim feast to gain a token
  • Tot3 and tot4 use grim feast to gain token.
  • NN makes corpse

Turn 2:

  • Pig makes corpse near NN
  • S1 charge NN-gives tot3 token to turn into young(Y3)-makes 2 corpses
  • S2 charge NN-gives tot4 token to turn into young(Y4)-makes 2 corpses
  • Y1 use grim feast to turn into mature(M1)
  • Y2 use grim feast to turn into mature(M2)
  • V puts out scheme-use scheme to make Y3 gain token from grim feast
  • Y3 use grim feast to turn into cavern(C3)
  • Nek gives token to Y4-makes 2 corpses and summons tot5
  • Y4 use grim feast to turn into cavern (C4)

If everything goes smoothly (which is quite uncertain it will I may add!), you now got 4 sz3 minions in play

Edit: Math didn't check out, so had to change up the order.

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3 hours ago, Hawkoon said:

Here's an example of using Vasilisa in the grow engine.

Grow strong (Neverborn)
Size: 50 - Pool: 5
Leader:
  Nekima, Broodmother (Nek)
Totem(s):
  Blood Hunter (Pig)
Hires:
  Terror Tot (tot1)
  Terror Tot 2 (tot2)
  Black Blood Shaman (S1)
    Ancient Pact
  Black Blood Shaman 2 (S2)
    Ancient Pact
  Vasilisa (V)
  Noxious Nephilim (NN)
  Terror Tot 3 (tot3)

Ideal activation order

Turn 1:

  • Pig makes corpse near NN
  • S1 charge NN-gives tot1 token-makes 2 corpses.
  • S2 charge NN-gives tot2 token-makes 2 corpses
  • V puts out a scheme-use scheme to make tot1 take grim feast and turn into young(Y1)
  • Nek gives token to Y1- makes 2 corpses and summons tot4
  • Y1 use grim feast to turn into mature (M1)
  • Tot2 use grim feast to turn into young (Y2)
  • Tot3 and tot4 use grim feast to gain token.
  • NN makes corpse

Turn 2:

  • Pig makes corpse near NN
  • S1 charge NN-gives tot3 token to turn into young(Y3)-makes 2 corpses
  • S2 charge NN-gives tot4 token to turn into young(Y4)-makes 2 corpses
  • V puts out scheme-use scheme to make Y3 gain token from grim feast
  • Y3 use grim feast to turn into cavern(C3)
  • Nek gives token to Y4-makes 2 corpses and summons tot5
  • Y4 use grim feast to turn into cavern (C4)

If everything goes smoothly (which is quite uncertain it will I may add!), you now got 4 sz3 minions in play😈

 

Thanks for your reply, never thought Vasilisa could be used like this before, really helpful.

Sometimes those shamans just can't provide enough corpses because there's no Mask in my hand. If I put all my effort into growing and just can't get enough corpses, I will probably lose the game. I think I can't turn the tide in this situation without Hayreddin and some precious stones :(

Do you have any good suggestions for this situation? Thanks!

 

PS: If you want 4 sz3 in turn 2, the M1 should grow in turn 2, or the Y2 won't get enough tokens.

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10 hours ago, RayIch said:

  

 

Thanks for your reply, never thought Vasilisa could be used like this before, really helpful.

Sometimes those shamans just can't provide enough corpses because there's no Mask in my hand. If I put all my effort into growing and just can't get enough corpses, I will probably lose the game. I think I can't turn the tide in this situation without Hayreddin and some precious stones :(

Do you have any good suggestions for this situation? Thanks!

 

PS: If you want 4 sz3 in turn 2, the M1 should grow in turn 2, or the Y2 won't get enough tokens.

Didn't have my math straight, but I knew it was possible, so changed up the order above, thanks for pointing it out.

If you go for a list like this you either go big or go home so getting the masks are really important. Though there isn't much straight up card draw in the crew, attacking Noxious lets you cycle cards with memories of blood (the once per turn can be done once per model, so you should be able to cycle up to 4 cards from attacks from shamen), as does Nekimas bloody banner trigger. Should be enough to get you the masks you need for the shamen, though not 100% guaranteed. (and you may need to ditch high cards for lower masks)

The card draw from ancient pact is really helpful there as well as it also contributes to the pool of cards you may cycle.

Using a SS for cards in turn 1 and 2 if you don't have a couple of masks on hand is essential to make a list like this work.

Another neat trick you could do is hire a wicked doll to have it put adversary(nephilim) on the noxious to put your shamen on :+flipflips. But I don't know how to fit one in the above list.

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13 hours ago, Hawkoon said:

Didn't have my math straight, but I knew it was possible, so changed up the order above, thanks for pointing it out.

If you go for a list like this you either go big or go home so getting the masks are really important. Though there isn't much straight up card draw in the crew, attacking Noxious lets you cycle cards with memories of blood (the once per turn can be done once per model, so you should be able to cycle up to 4 cards from attacks from shamen), as does Nekimas bloody banner trigger. Should be enough to get you the masks you need for the shamen, though not 100% guaranteed. (and you may need to ditch high cards for lower masks)

The card draw from ancient pact is really helpful there as well as it also contributes to the pool of cards you may cycle.

Using a SS for cards in turn 1 and 2 if you don't have a couple of masks on hand is essential to make a list like this work.

Another neat trick you could do is hire a wicked doll to have it put adversary(nephilim) on the noxious to put your shamen on :+flipflips. But I don't know how to fit one in the above list.

Just realized that Birthright can provide scheme marks for V.  So we can have some extra actions for focus or reposition.

Does Nekima2 have any more 'balanced' lists that avoid situations where you go big or go home? 

As for Nekima1, I don't know how she can survive in the middle of the field, even if I charge in from the flank. Inhuman Reflex sometimes can help, but in most cases she will die in that turn or in the beginning of next turn. And I don't think she'll be able to offer much support if she doesn't put herself out there.

Do you have any suggestion about competitive lists with Nekima1 or 2? Or should I choose other Neverborn masters?

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