Nightmares and Woes - any experiences?

[Regelridderen]

I’m going to a double master tournament, and wanted to keep things fairly simple - as I’ve got little room to practice.

So I was looking at bringing OG Dreamer and Tyrant-torn as a couple and would love your experiences with them?

[jtbk]

Yes, I did it recently (end of GG2) and it worked out really well.

I can heartily recommend from a play/fun perspective! It is not straightforward to play and presents a challenge to the opponent.

Strat: Symbols, deploy: Flank, Schemes; Detonate charges, vendetta, breakthrough, research mission, hidden martyrs
Played into Rasputina.

I ran:
    Dreamer + LCB, cache 6
    Pandora, Tyrant Torn
    2x Daydream w. ancient pact
    Widow Weaver
    Teddy

Generally Teddy charged in, WW schemed/supported while dreamer + daydreams were reserves/support. Pandora held another flank. LCB went for the weak points, trying to teleport into combat.

For GG2 at least, it seemed very powerful. Once you get the summoning going (dreamer, Pandora, WW) it will be very tough to resist it - very obstructive and forces the opponent to always deal with e.g. Alps, Madness, Sorrows and Poltergeists spawning on top of their models. The trick is getting to that point, for which Teddy and maybe LCB could be good sacrifices. WW and dreamer can then scheme or engage as needed.

Pandora TT is a great choice with dreamer, as she is more or less self-sufficient and can extend her power greatly.

I don't know how well it will fare in GG3 - the changes to summoning, especially for strats where this matters directly, can be a big detriment. But for some pools it could be ok.
 

Also, exchanging Teddy for Candy + Wicked Doll/Daydream is naturally a consideration. It would probably also work well.

I say go for it, it is definitely in my repertoire for an upcoming Danish tournament.

 

[Regelridderen]

I imagine your playbook somewhat like this.

Dreamer hands out shielded to chompy and teddy, then summons some stuff.

Pandora turns shielded into fast/focus, stuns an opponent to bring out a nightmare and summons a woe from the stunned opponent.

At which point, you’d be 10+ stones ahead.

I’d hate to see that at Aros con 🤮

[jtbk]

Yes, that is it - more or less the opening.

Let's see if the above is the worst that happens at ArosCon 😉

[jtbk]

But, @Regelridderen, you were considering this combo from the outset. What did you think to bring?

What are others thinking about this pair?

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

One heads up about double summoner  builds is they feel really strong if opponents let you durdle, but can be weak to aggression.

[Regelridderen]

32 minutes ago, jtbk said:

But, @Regelridderen, you were considering this combo from the outset. What did you think to bring?

What are others thinking about this pair?

I wasn’t considering Widow Weaver - too much a drain on the hand with two summoners already, and I rarely run her without Bandersnatch.

I was considering something like : 

Insidious w. AP - healing, scheme running, card draw.

Wicked Doll w. AP - For Luck Thief and scheme running, first turn adversary/fast on Candy.

Candy - the least resource intensive model in the game. And with fast, she’s got 23” range for on your feet for T2.

9 Stones

-

But I think the schemes/strats will require more mobility in general.

32 minutes ago, jtbk said:

[Maniacal_cackle]

New The Dreamer Crew (Neverborn)

Size: 50 - Pool: 5

Leader:

  The Dreamer

Totem(s):

  Lord Chompy Bits

Hires:

•   Pandora, Tyrant Torn
•   Teddy
•   Wicked Doll
•     Ancient Pact
•   Wicked Doll 2
•     Ancient Pact
•   Candy

This could work as well.

Two beaters, two schemers, two ap, and candy as support is a pretty good combo.

Can even fast both the beaters pretty efficiently!

[Regelridderen]

3 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

New The Dreamer Crew (Neverborn)

Size: 50 - Pool: 5

Leader:

  The Dreamer

Totem(s):

  Lord Chompy Bits

Hires:

•   Pandora, Tyrant Torn
•   Teddy
•   Wicked Doll
•     Ancient Pact
•   Wicked Doll 2
•     Ancient Pact
•   Candy

This could work as well.

Two beaters, two schemers, two ap, and candy as support is a pretty good combo.

Can even fast both the beaters pretty efficiently!

Looks nasty.

[SEV]

5 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

New The Dreamer Crew (Neverborn)

Size: 50 - Pool: 5

Leader:

  The Dreamer

Totem(s):

  Lord Chompy Bits

Hires:

•   Pandora, Tyrant Torn
•   Teddy
•   Wicked Doll
•     Ancient Pact
•   Wicked Doll 2
•     Ancient Pact
•   Candy

This could work as well.

Two beaters, two schemers, two ap, and candy as support is a pretty good combo.

Can even fast both the beaters pretty efficiently!

5ss is too low imo. I think the double beater build is a trap. You'll win by attrition anyway. Also Teddy is weak.

I would go for more utility and ideally 7 or 8 as model in this slot. Either Dorian, Serena or Vasilissa (always nice with 2 dolls). If you really need a beater, Hina will do the trick.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

Just now, SEV said:

5ss is too low imo. I think the double beater build is a trap. You'll win by attrition anyway. Also Teddy is weak.

I would go for more utility and ideally 7 or 8 as model in this slot. Either Dorian, Serena or Vasilissa (always nice with 2 dolls). If you really need a beater, Hina will do the trick.

 

True, but I also like the utility of Teddy's Terrorize, as it opens up a lot of space to get your durdle engines up to full strength.

If you bog your opponent down long enough to get 4 summons off, you're really snowballing.

[SEV]

WW is way better if you're looking for a terrorize package IMO. 

 

[jtbk]

On 9/14/2022 at 11:32 PM, Regelridderen said:

I wasn’t considering Widow Weaver - too much a drain on the hand with two summoners already, and I rarely run her without Bandersnatch.

I was considering something like : 

Insidious w. AP - healing, scheme running, card draw.

Wicked Doll w. AP - For Luck Thief and scheme running, first turn adversary/fast on Candy.

Candy - the least resource intensive model in the game. And with fast, she’s got 23” range for on your feet for T2.

9 Stones

-

But I think the schemes/strats will require more mobility in general.

Those are interesting pieces - also the build later by Maniacal (Teddy, Candy, 2xWDwAP). Depending on the matchup, Candy could synergize better (obviously with Pandora), and she is a very effective tar-pit. A different threat than Teddy/Hinamatsu, but a valid threat nonetheless.

I can see you prefer Wicked Dolls to daydreams. There is indeed a downside to using Daydreams as they are insignificant - some schemes are simply out of the question. I do like their movement-tricks though, and if you can get someone on a negative flip on WP (Poltergeist), they can also do damage. But I'll consider bringing Wicked Dolls - especially for Dreamer + Pandora TT. Thanks 🙂

I just like the Widow Weaver, she always performs well IMO. I play her with her summoning as an option (you have to kill or get scrap anyway), but her toughness, ability to kill + reposition and her own mobility is a good package. I don't miss the Bandersnatch, too circumstantial to get to work properly and dies too easily.

I am considering a build of Dreamer + LCB, Pandora TT, WW + Bandersnatch, WD, Candy, but that leaves a cache of only 7SS and no AP. Removing the Bandersnatch and adding a WD + APs looks like Maniacals build, but with WW instead of Teddy. Or SEVs proposal with Hinamatsu, Serena etc.
 

So, a good core seems like: Dreamer, LCB, Pandora TT,  1x(Wicked Doll + Ancient Pact), Candy - this leaves 20SS to suit ones own taste, strategy/schemes and matchup, or just 15SS with an extra Wicked Doll + AP (maybe you don't need the extra AP - Pandora draws an extra card). I can see that working.

 

It will be interesting to see how The Dreamer fares in GG3, being a summoner and all and seeing if opponents lets him durdle. But Pandora TT will definitely discourage anti-durdling behaviour, as will Candy \o/.
Also interesting that there seems to be a general consensus around Wicked Dolls, Teddy/Hinamatsu, Candy, Ancient Pact etc.  🙂

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think daydreams are very good with a dreamer crew, but if you're taking pandora and candy half you don't have many nightmare models.

[jtbk]

16 hours ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I think daydreams are very good with a dreamer crew, but if you're taking pandora and candy half you don't have many nightmare models.

Yes, that makes sense - but being insignificant is really troublesome.. agreed that they work well in Dreamer-crews 🙂

 

[Maigaard]

I was playing a crew like this a while ago:

Dreamer

Chompy

Pandora TT

Poltergeist

Wicked Doll

Serena Bowman

Widow Weaver

Daydream

 

It was corner deployment and opponent was Hoffmann2 so lots of scrap. 

I had plenty of time to setup and crew feels strong, but I'd probably consider switching WW or Serena for Candy. I have a feeling that single master Pandora TT will play more straight forward in many situations. 

 

[goth]

I hire as many Nightmare and Woe models in a given game as I do Versatiles, and I've never played dreamer.  Just some sick glass cannons with cute tricks.