Malifaux Hot Takes

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

Hello Everyone, I am here to see what your hot takes on Malifaux models/masters are.

 

Do you think a certain unit is vastly underrated?  Is there a master you think gets a bad wrap?  So on and so forth.

 

I'll start.  I think a lot of people are overly harsh on the Forgotten keyword, from the minions (apart from Crooligans/Night Terrors) to Molly herself.   

 

I am fond of of the Rabble Riser.  I think you get quite a bit of bang for the buck for 6 points.  HtW, Df 5, 7 wounds is great for a 6 point model.  They can pretty much open the game with 2 focus without having to perform any actions, and come standard with one of my favorite special abilities, Challenge (with potential stunned).  And if you got Toshiro nearby they are going to have plus flips on top of that.  Are they going to tear through armor +2 models?  No.  Are they going to tear through the enemy like butter?  No.  But they don't need to.  They are a worthy distraction that can take out lesser models, all while hindering masters/henchmen with Challenge.  If you got a night terror nearby with an anti cheat aura, it gets even worse for them.  Say an enemy forces them to discard a card.  It sucks, but at least I get a focus out of it.  All around great package if you ask me.

 

I also like Molly 2.  I always find myself gravitating to models that allow for out of activation movement, be it for my models or the enemy.  Playing against an enemy with low willpower I slingshotted a Night terror with GST into the center of the enemies battle line.  The master likes to target their own models but couldn't do it effectively due to the concealment aura/anti-cheat aura.  The master didn't want to waste AP killing a relatively weak and useless model and moved up exposing himself.  Then all the models in the center line tried to gang up on the night terror but because of their low willpower couldn't overcome the fear checks.  And when they did I would just heal up the next turn.  My opponent had to waste 2 and a half turns to overcome a 7 point model that just held up the entire enemies game plan.

 

Not to mention he moved up the master as a result, which allowed Molly to move the master forwards directly towards Archie and my Rogue Necromancy, who then got swamped and killed.  Not to mention "parade of the dead" gave me that much more extra movement for some of my key models that game.

 

Being able to move your crucial models, and push back enemy ones is very powerful if you ask me.  

 

That's it from me for now.  I'll probably post some of my other takes later.

[Thatguy]

My hot take:

The humble Silurid is the best designed card in the game. Nexus is the worst. 

Slurid- exemplar of 3rd Ed streamlining 

Strong in it's niche.

Two front of card abilities, one sentence each.

Three back of card actions, two triggers. All of them described in a single sentence.

Nexus- Lord of the Bloat

Immediate balance problems on release.

Four front abilities. Only one of which can be summed up in a single sentence. All of the others are small paragraphs.

Four back of card actions half of them require more than one sentence to explain. Six triggers spread amongst them.

Comes with an additional upgrade. That includes two more abilities, and an action with three additional triggers.

 

[Maniacal_cackle]

I think there's a lot of merit to the idea that 'if you have to add an extra card to explain its rules, the model is too complicated.'

Malifaux cards are already one of the most complex out of any game I've played.  And while that's a positive, increasing that complexity also has some undesirable effects for game balance and new player experience.

[Maniacal_cackle]

On the flip side, in 4e, could make sense for every crew to have a crew card like the Hive upgrade with simpler individual cards.

[santaclaws01]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

My hot take:

The humble Silurid is the best designed card in the game. Nexus is the worst. 

Slurid- exemplar of 3rd Ed streamlining 

Strong in it's niche.

Two front of card abilities, one sentence each.

Three back of card actions, two triggers. All of them described in a single sentence.

Nexus- Lord of the Bloat

Immediate balance problems on release.

Four front abilities. Only one of which can be summed up in a single sentence. All of the others are small paragraphs.

Four back of card actions half of them require more than one sentence to explain. Six triggers spread amongst them.

Comes with an additional upgrade. That includes two more abilities, and an action with three additional triggers.

 

Comparing a master and a minion is kind of strange. One is supposed to be simple and one is supposed to be more complex.

[Azahul]

I've probably been vocal enough about this one that it's less a hot take and more a lukewarm one at this stage, but Parker2 is low-key one of the best Outcast Masters. Deceptively so, but he can play most pools well and his crew can take on a good variety of threats.

 

Oh! Also! Paul Crockett is good. Any Cost 6 model capable of generating that many Min 3 attacks has to be respected. Yeah, he's Stat 5, but if he acts late in the turn is your opponent going to hold back a Severe just in case he hits? I've seen a moderate mask in the hands of a Marcus player translate into an extra three Cerberus attacks more than a few times. He's a bit erratic and unreliable but come on, he's cheap as chips. He's a gambler's model, for a fairly small buy-in the potential return is huge. And if he fails? Well, you didn't spend all that much.

 

Can't believe this thread has been sitting here for a month before anyone thought to add to it. I'm disappointed in myself if nothing else.

[Maniacal_cackle]

3 minutes ago, Azahul said:

Oh! Also! Paul Crockett is good. Any Cost 6 model capable of generating that many Min 3 attacks has to be respected. Yeah, he's Stat 5, but if he acts late in the turn is your opponent going to hold back a Severe just in case he hits? I've seen a moderate mask in the hands of a Marcus player translate into an extra three Cerberus attacks more than a few times. He's a bit erratic and unreliable but come on, he's cheap as chips. He's a gambler's model, for a fairly small buy-in the potential return is huge. And if he fails? Well, you didn't spend all that much.

I find Paul gets even better if there's a way he can score points when he's not producing extra attacks. Last season I used him for outflank sometimes.

[Azahul]

2 minutes ago, Maniacal_cackle said:

I find Paul gets even better if there's a way he can score points when he's not producing extra attacks. Last season I used him for outflank sometimes.

Yeah, I've seen him paired as a Hidden Martyrs model a lot for similar reasons. 14" away and Stealthed and Disguised is pretty good for making sure he makes it to Turn 5, just need to kidnap something for him to score the end point on late game.

[Thatguy]

On 10/5/2022 at 11:05 PM, santaclaws01 said:

Comparing a master and a minion is kind of strange. One is supposed to be simple and one is supposed to be more complex.

I chose examples on both extremes of the spectrum, but it's a fair cop.

Though that brings in other questions: Because a model is expensive, or a higher station does that mean it has to be more complex? Or just more powerful?

[santaclaws01]

16 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I chose examples on both extremes of the spectrum, but it's a fair cop.

Though that brings in other questions: Because a model is expensive, or a higher station does that mean it has to be more complex? Or just more powerful?

Master and Minions are probably the only ones where you have some expectation of complexity. If it's something you're taking multiples of you don't want it to be too mentally taxing to do their activations. And for masters people expect them to do things, so that means they'll either be doing one thing extremely well in a straight forward manner, or they'll have a lot of ways to impact the board state. Things tend to lean towards more complexity for masters because that leaves more room for each master to flex their legs and do their own thing.


Also in general I'm not a fan of the "more words=more complex". Sometimes you just need more words to close loopholes or reduce ambiguity. Or it's just combining multiple different things into one ability. Like if the abilities on Cadmus' upgrade were split up into individual effects you'd have the most complex one be (enemy models with a parasite token count as friendly) also be one of the shortest abilities.

[Thatguy]

21 hours ago, santaclaws01 said:

Also in general I'm not a fan of the "more words=more complex". Sometimes you just need more words to close loopholes or reduce ambiguity.

I disagree. I think it's generally great shorthand for complexity. The fact that you have to close loopholes or clear ambiguity in an ability means that it's probably more complex than ones you don't have to. Are there outliers where very succinctly worded abilities or actions are actually complex? Yes.  But as a rule of thumb it generally holds true. If for no other reason then the more abilities you have the more interaction between those abilities. And the longer those are abilities are the more interactions there are within them.

Like in your example of Parasitic Grasp, if it were only "enemy models with parasite tokens count as friendly" it would be a complex ability. But it does not end there, it goes on making the ability even more complex. You could break Parasitic Grasp could be broken into two one sentence abilities but the complexity would still be there. 

Word count might be a better shorthand for complexity. But I wasn't feeling up to doing a weird count. Lol 

Using Parasitic Grasp is an example:

During friendly activations, Cadmus models may treat enemy models with parasite tokens as though they were friendly Cadmus models (except for Schemes and Strategies).

Back packs a lot in a single sentence. 

On 10/5/2022 at 11:41 PM, Azahul said:

 

Oh! Also! Paul Crockett is good. Any Cost 6 model capable of generating that many Min 3 attacks has to be respected.

If have to think about under respected models. I'm a little worried bringing them up will get them nerfed. Lol