Gen Con 22 pics anyone?

[LordZombie]

Odd that is says crew and not keyword. Looks like we only got 5 of the new keywords: Angler, Cavalier, Witness, Story, Returned. We have already seen that Witness and Story are not dual faction. Very interesting new book. Also makes we wonder what else is in the new book. Last time we got new masters, we got campaign rules, but M3e is far from the edition to have a "fun" method of play. Very interesting. 

[kangram]

We must keep in mind that we already have two returned miniatures a ressus and an oucast (via Errata). But, returned being the second dual ressus-outcast is strange but the other option is ressus-never, putting the never at 4 duals.

The other two factions with 2 dual could solve it via the angler being bayou-Explorer's.

[Brilliance Laced Whiskey]

While it isn't always the case, when I think of Explorers Society, I think of rich elites flaunting their wealth and passions.  Here's hoping we do get a Bayou/ES crossover.  Why?

Because a high society gremlin might be the greatest concept ever.

[kangram]

I hope we have a Bayou/ES crossover since those are my two factions hehehe.

[theamazingmrg]

3 hours ago, Brilliance Laced Whiskey said:

While it isn't always the case, when I think of Explorers Society, I think of rich elites flaunting their wealth and passions.  Here's hoping we do get a Bayou/ES crossover.  Why?

Because a high society gremlin might be the greatest concept ever.

We've alreeady got a Gremlin purveyor of fancy hats.  Its only one more step to high society!

[Mindbadger]

5 hours ago, kangram said:

We must keep in mind that we already have two returned miniatures a ressus and an oucast (via Errata). But, returned being the second dual ressus-outcast is strange but the other option is ressus-never, putting the never at 4 duals.

The other two factions with 2 dual could solve it via the angler being bayou-Explorer's.

There is already an Outcast/Rezzer master (Jack Daw) and an Outcast/Bayou master (Zipp), which would mean that it kind of should be Outcast/Explorer's for one of the keywords, which would leave Bayou/Rezzer as the last one. Not sure how Angler would fit in Rezzer until we see more models, but unless they want to repeat shared factions, that is how I see things playing out.

[Math Mathonwy]

On 8/6/2022 at 11:48 PM, Mindbadger said:

There is already an Outcast/Rezzer master (Jack Daw) and an Outcast/Bayou master (Zipp), which would mean that it kind of should be Outcast/Explorer's for one of the keywords, which would leave Bayou/Rezzer as the last one. Not sure how Angler would fit in Rezzer until we see more models, but unless they want to repeat shared factions, that is how I see things playing out.

Angler in Ressers would also be weird since they would be getting two new Masters then (presupposing that the vampire Nephilim are Resser like Gwyll).

So yeah, it's a proper mystery!

[Fingalen]

3 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

So yeah, it's a proper mystery!

It might also be possible, that Returned would actually be OC/ES keyword with Gwyll being out of their factions hire for them or Skulker skin being out-of-faction hire for OC/ES Angler master. Our they would need to get together Angler and Returned keywords somehow for Ress/Bayou master. 🙂 I cannot really see other options, if I assume, Wyrd wants to have 3 dual masters in all factions without repeating their combinations. 

[theamazingmrg]

3 hours ago, Math Mathonwy said:

Angler in Ressers would also be weird since they would be getting two new Masters then (presupposing that the vampire Nephilim are Resser like Gwyll).

I was reading From Nightmares last week and assuming the new Nephilim Master is Kastore (as seems incredibly likely), faction-wise he is probably going to be pure Neverborn, despite his vampiric tendencies.  He doesn't really seem to have any ties to Ressers or other undead (other than Gwyll) but the background details are very slim, so who knows?

It would make sense for him not to be dual-faction, given the current dual-faction Master numbers.

 

We'd need Bayou/Resser and ES/Outcast to bring every faction to 3 dual-faction Masters each, but Angler does seem like an odd Keyword to have for a Bayou/Resser Master, so maybe it would be a dual-Keyword Master)?

 

ES/Outcast seems like an easier fit, so it would be interesting to see what they come up with there.

[Fingalen]

Kastore being Neverborn (or other non-resser) master puts Gwyll in a weird spot among ressers. Why would he be there, if he is only playable as OOK taxed model?

[MajorUndead]

I would love to see a Bayou/Resser master!
I don't know exactly how it would look (except maybe taking some inspiration on the taxidermists) or what mechanics it would have, but seeing more of the Gremlins' take on undead stuff sure would be fun!

I wouldn't see Angler being Resser though. Maybe ES since it could link with the story where Mc Cabe explores some ruins in the sunken ruins in the bayou?

I'm not familiar with Kastore's story, but I would guess he has to be either Resser or Outcast, seeing as his 2 henchman are from these factions.
Also I'm guessing all the nephilim models we saw in the picture from GenCon (including Kastore) would only have the Returned Keyword and not the Nephilim (except maybe a few of them)?
Otherwise that would give a lot of models available to both Kastore & Nekima to choose from

[Math Mathonwy]

Maybe Skulker Skin isn't actually the gremlin with the gun but is actually the Skin they're wearing that has been reanimated through necromancy! 

(A bit like Bo Peep is actually the pig and her rider is just some random nameless Gremlin...)

[Mindbadger]

1 hour ago, malyzubor said:

Kastore being Neverborn (or other non-resser) master puts Gwyll in a weird spot among ressers. Why would he be there, if he is only playable as OOK taxed model?

I think once Kastore's faction is revealed, a lot more will make sense, so far his models are throwing me. If he isn't in Rezzers, I'm not exactly sure why Gwyll is a Rezzer model, he doesn't seem to have any particular affiliation to them. The one reason I could think of is that Kastore is Neverborn only, but full of models that don't like other Neverborn and thus will be of different factions so that they can't be hired OOK. Gwyll would never want to be in the same crew as Titania, Barbaros would never want to be in the same crew as Nekima, so not being Neverborn means that they cannot be hired into their crews (discounting double masters for Gwyll, Barbaros already has a rule preventing this). So some of Kastore's models could be Neverborn that have grudges against the current "rulers" in the Neverborn and would side with Kastore as their champion.

As for Angler being Bayou/Rezzer dual faction, I'm hoping for some kind of fish cult, with the gremlins catching the underwater creatures and the Rezzer Anglers raising them back up as undead fish monsters. A man can dream!

No idea for Outcast/Explorers, but there is a wealth of options between those factions. I'll be interested to see what comes up.

[Azahul]

3 minutes ago, Mindbadger said:

I think once Kastore's faction is revealed, a lot more will make sense, so far his models are throwing me. If he isn't in Rezzers, I'm not exactly sure why Gwyll is a Rezzer model, he doesn't seem to have any particular affiliation to them. The one reason I could think of is that Kastore is Neverborn only, but full of models that don't like other Neverborn and thus will be of different factions so that they can't be hired OOK. Gwyll would never want to be in the same crew as Titania, Barbaros would never want to be in the same crew as Nekima, so not being Neverborn means that they cannot be hired into their crews (discounting double masters for Gwyll, Barbaros already has a rule preventing this). So some of Kastore's models could be Neverborn that have grudges against the current "rulers" in the Neverborn and would side with Kastore as their champion.

As for Angler being Bayou/Rezzer dual faction, I'm hoping for some kind of fish cult, with the gremlins catching the underwater creatures and the Rezzer Anglers raising them back up as undead fish monsters. A man can dream!

No idea for Outcast/Explorers, but there is a wealth of options between those factions. I'll be interested to see what comes up.

Two things I think are worth noting.

1) Kastore is surely almost guaranteed to be Resurrectionist. Gwyll would be the first ever model that cannot be hired by its own faction without paying the OOK tax if he isn't.

2) We don't actually know what faction the Cavalier Keyword is. Hexbows have two Keywords, which means if Cavalier is not Guild then it is possible to hire them in Guild without paying the OOK tax. It is entirely possible that Cavalier is Outcast, Explorers, dual faction Outcast/Explorers, Neverborn, or some weirder dual faction combination. That means the as-yet-unrevealed crew could be Guild faction.

[Nathan Sells]

With the change to Barbaros' Nephilim Loyalist rule and the fact that Gwyll is a Ressers model with only the Returned keyword it seems incredibly likely that Returned is Ressers/Neverborn. 

As others have said, if Returned isn't a Ressers keyword then Gwyll can't be hired in faction without a tax which seems bizarre. 

Barbaros' change implies the rules would otherwise allow him to be in a crew containing, but not lead by Nekima. That only works if the Returned Master is Neverborn, also has the Nephilim keyword, or can specifically hire Nekima, and those second two sound like a balancing nightmare.

So while we can't be certain, those clues definitely point one place. (plus Neverborn and Ressers are both popular factions so it makes marketing sense)

[Mindbadger]

5 minutes ago, Azahul said:

Two things I think are worth noting.

1) Kastore is surely almost guaranteed to be Resurrectionist. Gwyll would be the first ever model that cannot be hired by its own faction without paying the OOK tax if he isn't.

2) We don't actually know what faction the Cavalier Keyword is. Hexbows have two Keywords, which means if Cavalier is not Guild then it is possible to hire them in Guild without paying the OOK tax. It is entirely possible that Cavalier is Outcast, Explorers, dual faction Outcast/Explorers, Neverborn, or some weirder dual faction combination. That means the as-yet-unrevealed crew could be Guild faction.

1) That wouldn't fit with the dual master line ups, the factions who are missing a dual faction master are Outcast, Rezzers, Bayou and Explorer's. Outcast already has one with Rezzers and Bayou, meaning that they would be paired with Explorer's which leaves Rezzers with Bayou. I don't see Kastore being Bayou and Angler has already been spoiled.

Plus since Malifaux Burns, there are plenty of models in Keyword (even if it is double keyword) that cannot be hired in the faction OOK. Thirty-Three cannot be hired OOK in Guild despite being in the Marshal Keyword for example.

I would prefer Kastore to be in Rezzers and there to be 8 new Keywords coming, but with people saying that the new book states 6 masters, you have to assume that he won't be. I already stated a lore theory that explains why Gwyll wouldn't want to be hired OOK in Neverborn (he hates Titania and she is pretty much in charge of the current Neverborn), but I can't explain why he would be in Rezzers.

2) True, but I would very much guess that they are in Guild.

These are just theories though, there's a good chance I'm completely wrong. Kastore's reveal should clear up a lot.

[Mindbadger]

3 minutes ago, Nathan Sells said:

With the change to Barbaros' Nephilim Loyalist rule and the fact that Gwyll is a Ressers model with only the Returned keyword it seems incredibly likely that Returned is Ressers/Neverborn. 

As others have said, if Returned isn't a Ressers keyword then Gwyll can't be hired in faction without a tax which seems bizarre. 

Barbaros' change implies the rules would otherwise allow him to be in a crew containing, but not lead by Nekima. That only works if the Returned Master is Neverborn, also has the Nephilim keyword, or can specifically hire Nekima, and those second two sound like a balancing nightmare.

So while we can't be certain, those clues definitely point one place. (plus Neverborn and Ressers are both popular factions so it makes marketing sense)

The only problem with this is that it would mean that Neverborn would be the only faction with 4 dual faction keywords, with most having 3 and I think it would mean that one faction would have 2. I don't know how important that is for Wyrd and balancing, but it seems strange that they would release 2 new multifaction keywords but not try to balance the number of dual keywords between all the factions.

I'll agree from a lore perspective, I could see Kastore being Neverborn/Rezzers. Gwyll being Rezzers is really throwing things... Seeing as all cards are subject to change at this point, he could just be a red herring and receive a late faction change! (I jest...)

[Azahul]

30 minutes ago, Mindbadger said:

1) That wouldn't fit with the dual master line ups, the factions who are missing a dual faction master are Outcast, Rezzers, Bayou and Explorer's. Outcast already has one with Rezzers and Bayou, meaning that they would be paired with Explorer's which leaves Rezzers with Bayou. I don't see Kastore being Bayou and Angler has already been spoiled.

Plus since Malifaux Burns, there are plenty of models in Keyword (even if it is double keyword) that cannot be hired in the faction OOK. Thirty-Three cannot be hired OOK in Guild despite being in the Marshal Keyword for example.

I would prefer Kastore to be in Rezzers and there to be 8 new Keywords coming, but with people saying that the new book states 6 masters, you have to assume that he won't be. I already stated a lore theory that explains why Gwyll wouldn't want to be hired OOK in Neverborn (he hates Titania and she is pretty much in charge of the current Neverborn), but I can't explain why he would be in Rezzers.

2) True, but I would very much guess that they are in Guild.

These are just theories though, there's a good chance I'm completely wrong. Kastore's reveal should clear up a lot.

Well, for 1) Wyrd has been ok all edition to have different factions with different numbers of dual faction keywords. I'm not necessarily convinced that their priority with this release is to even up the scales on that front.

2) I agree, they do seem likely to be Guild, but it is worth remembering that Cavalier is still an open variable. And if Cavalier is pulling from the King's Empire to some degree then I could see them being Outcast, Explorers, or both moreso than Guild.

 

Personally I'm in the Returned=Neverborn/Resurrectionist camp, due to both Gwyll and the Barbaros Nephilim Loyalist errata. Or maybe mono-faction Resurrectionist, but the Nephilim Loyalist errata would bug me in that case. I think it's much more likely that Wyrd would care about it being impossible for a faction to hire its own models without paying the OOK tax than the arbitrary number of Masters that happen to be dual faction.

[santaclaws01]

I'm starting to think Kastore is pure Ressers. Barbaros has a rule that he can't be hired in the same crew as Nekima because he hates her. Gwyll hates Titania, but has no such rule. That leads me to believe that a Kastore/Titania list is impossible to make. Kastore might just be a Nephilim/Returned ressers master.

[Nathan Sells]

15 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

 Kastore might just be a Nephilim/Returned ressers master.

The issue there is it would put Nephilim in a really strange place balance wise, having 4 Masters (including titles), and Kastore would almost certainly be the stronger Master, given he'd be able to hire the Returned models as well as the Nephilim. Plus if Kastore's getting the Nephilim keyword why give Barbaros Returned? 

[Mindbadger]

37 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

I'm starting to think Kastore is pure Ressers. Barbaros has a rule that he can't be hired in the same crew as Nekima because he hates her. Gwyll hates Titania, but has no such rule. That leads me to believe that a Kastore/Titania list is impossible to make. Kastore might just be a Nephilim/Returned ressers master.

The thought of Mature Nephilim with Grave Spirit's Touch or The Whisper terrifies me...

In all seriousness, I don't see a new master sharing a keyword with an older one. It kind of takes away from the original master.

I don't know whether Wyrd gives more weight to balancing the dual faction master's numbers between factions (3 in each faction as opposed to 4 in 1 faction and then 2 or 3 in the others) or for a keyword to have models which cannot be hired in their factions as OOK models. I would suggest that having 1 or 2 less models to hire OOK probably has less of an impact competitively compared to some factions having more flexibility in keyword picks, but it might be the difference between six and half a dozen.

[kangram]

Has anybody got better pictures of the Ten Thunders new miniatures? We had good pictures from the returned, but not for the other keyword shown.

[Mindbadger]

17 minutes ago, kangram said:

Has anybody got better pictures of the Ten Thunders new miniatures? We had good pictures from the returned, but not for the other keyword shown.

Someone just posted a painted model of Linh Ly, Storyteller on the Malifaux Reddit, she looks good! I'm more excited for the Story/Redchapel keyword than I thought I would be.

[santaclaws01]

2 hours ago, Nathan Sells said:

The issue there is it would put Nephilim in a really strange place balance wise, having 4 Masters (including titles), and Kastore would almost certainly be the stronger Master, given he'd be able to hire the Returned models as well as the Nephilim. Plus if Kastore's getting the Nephilim keyword why give Barbaros Returned? 

So that Barbaros could work with Returned mechanics. 

2 hours ago, Mindbadger said:

The thought of Mature Nephilim with Grave Spirit's Touch or The Whisper terrifies me...

In all seriousness, I don't see a new master sharing a keyword with an older one. It kind of takes away from the original master.

I don't know whether Wyrd gives more weight to balancing the dual faction master's numbers between factions (3 in each faction as opposed to 4 in 1 faction and then 2 or 3 in the others) or for a keyword to have models which cannot be hired in their factions as OOK models. I would suggest that having 1 or 2 less models to hire OOK probably has less of an impact competitively compared to some factions having more flexibility in keyword picks, but it might be the difference between six and half a dozen.

We know that the rest of the Returned Keyword are nephilim, but we don't know if they have the keyword. We can also make a pretty safe assumption that Gwyll isn't going to be a resser model without a resser master as he has no other lore reason to be resser, and he'd be the only model in the game that can't be hired in his native faction without having to pay OOK tax, and he wouldn't even do anything for ressers as a model that can only be hired OOK.

[Mindbadger]

35 minutes ago, santaclaws01 said:

We know that the rest of the Returned Keyword are nephilim, but we don't know if they have the keyword. We can also make a pretty safe assumption that Gwyll isn't going to be a resser model without a resser master as he has no other lore reason to be resser, and he'd be the only model in the game that can't be hired in his native faction without having to pay OOK tax, and he wouldn't even do anything for ressers as a model that can only be hired OOK.

I mean, I can also say that it's a safe assumption that the dual faction keywords should be Rezzer/Bayou and Outcast/Explorer's (for reasons I've given earlier). There are already lots of models that can be hired in Keyword within a faction, but not OOK. Pretty much all of the shared models in the title boxes, so the precedent is there. You can't hire The Kurgan OOK in Explorer's for example despite him having the Seeker Keyword.

There's still a lot of info to come and I wouldn't be surprised if Wyrd try new things with the new Keywords, such as the Configuration with Witness. All the cards are subject to change as well, so there is a chance Gwyll could have a keyword added, his faction changed or have a Babaros-like rule added to him. You can make assumptions, as can I, but that's all they are. I don't think anyone can claim there is an obvious answer till we see more, with so much conflicting information about Returned.

It is fun to see other theories though.